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Post by silver on Mar 10, 2013 12:20:21 GMT -5
Well, Silvergirl, that brings us back again full circle to your imagination issues. Arisha was imagining a great deal there in that post, seeing things that aren't there... While I may not agree with your current assessment of Arisha's and my opinions, I enjoy those cute dancing giraffes. Here. I'll trade ya.
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Post by enigma on Mar 10, 2013 12:53:51 GMT -5
Well, Silvergirl, that brings us back again full circle to your imagination issues. Arisha was imagining a great deal there in that post, seeing things that aren't there... Now there's some fun giraffes. ;D Being objective is far more difficult than most suppose, as evidenced by the radically different ways that folks perceive Enigma here. After all, nobody's being asked to evaluate something that isn't happening right here. All that's necessary is that everybody read the same posts, and assuming everybody is being as objective as they can, then everybody should pretty much come to the same conclusions. An analogy would be a court trial. Everyone is hearing precisely the same evidence, and so ideally all twelve jury members should come to the same conclusion. Obviously, that's not happening here, and so mind tries to reconcile this discrepancy. Nearly everyone recognizes a certain amount of bias in themselves, though most believe they can set that off to the side in the interest of being objective, so mind still has to explain this huge discrepancy. It may do that by withdrawing it's faith in the ability of others to be objective, or sufficiently intelligent, and if this doesn't seem to explain it, it will assume purposeful deception, manipulation of facts, agendas and taking sides. Now mind is satisfied that it understands why others don't see the same thing happening. It's obviously all about alliances and clubs and agendas and twisting and manipulating and deception, and it searches for evidence to confirm this idea, to the exclusion of other evidence, thereby engaging in the same bias it claims others are engaged in. That's not the reason for the discrepancies in the perception of what's happening here. Everybody actually is trying to be objective and never goes off into agendas and deception. There's no prize to be won here for being right. Nobody is devoting hours a day to some conspiracy to trick others cuz that would just be dumb. The discrepancy remains because folks are not able to be nearly as objective as they imagine. That failure is what is being pointed to here. It's called illusion and it is ultimately the source of all human suffering and turns what could be heaven into the hell of fear, judgment and divisiveness.
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Post by topology on Mar 10, 2013 14:21:41 GMT -5
Well, this recent exchage here got my attention: Tzu came here looking for open and honest discussion. Open minded discussions where no one is right and no one is wrong. Tzu likes it respectful, direct, honest and - most importantly - open. To be sure that we get that message, he mentioned it a few more times, specifically here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and hereWell, that's a long list, a lot of repetition. It's almost spamming. For what, actually? So that we - or more specifically, Enigma - will get the message? The main message seems to be that Enigma refuses to participate in open and honest discussions that Tzu appreciates so much and the subliminal message here seems to be that this kind of behavior is ... lets face it Tzu ... WRONG - at least that's how your message comes across. Or is your message that YOU are open and honest and respectful and the sub-message that ENIGMA is NOT open and honest and respectful is just a minor side effect? Tzu, you've already made your point a gazillion times. We now know what kind of discussions you want - at least in theory. And Enigma is obviously not going to change for you and is not going to put greetings and well wishes into his posts no matter how often you repeat your OHDM. So, why are you still trying to get into an open and honest discussion with Enigma? Is there a possibility that you just let Enigma be Enigma? Wouldn't it be easier to just ignore him? Or is that not an option? Just wondering... I already know what Arisha and Tzu think of Enigma. I've seen it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. If Beingist said "snake" after figgy's posts for a long time and it was considered harassment and bullying, is what Arisha and Tzu have done that much different just because they use more or different words? I just don't view this type of harassment as productive or conducive to any kind of real conversation. It's one thing to state your mind about a particular person from time to time, but doing it over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, every chance you get is crusading. I'd prefer it to stop, but that's just me.
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Post by enigma on Mar 10, 2013 14:27:00 GMT -5
Well, this recent exchage here got my attention: Tzu came here looking for open and honest discussion. Open minded discussions where no one is right and no one is wrong. Tzu likes it respectful, direct, honest and - most importantly - open. To be sure that we get that message, he mentioned it a few more times, specifically here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and hereWell, that's a long list, a lot of repetition. It's almost spamming. For what, actually? So that we - or more specifically, Enigma - will get the message? The main message seems to be that Enigma refuses to participate in open and honest discussions that Tzu appreciates so much and the subliminal message here seems to be that this kind of behavior is ... lets face it Tzu ... WRONG - at least that's how your message comes across. Or is your message that YOU are open and honest and respectful and the sub-message that ENIGMA is NOT open and honest and respectful is just a minor side effect? Tzu, you've already made your point a gazillion times. We now know what kind of discussions you want - at least in theory. And Enigma is obviously not going to change for you and is not going to put greetings and well wishes into his posts no matter how often you repeat your OHDM. So, why are you still trying to get into an open and honest discussion with Enigma? Is there a possibility that you just let Enigma be Enigma? Wouldn't it be easier to just ignore him? Or is that not an option? Just wondering... I already know what Arisha and Tzu think of Enigma. I've seen it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. If Beingist said "snake" after figgy's posts for a long time and it was considered harassment and bullying, is what Arisha and Tzu have done that much different just because they use more or different words? I just don't view this type of harassment as productive or conducive to any kind of real conversation. It's one thing to state your mind about a particular person from time to time, but doing it over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, every chance you get is crusading. I'd prefer it to stop, but that's just me. That would be my preference too.
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Post by silver on Mar 10, 2013 14:38:31 GMT -5
Well, this recent exchage here got my attention: Tzu came here looking for open and honest discussion. Open minded discussions where no one is right and no one is wrong. Tzu likes it respectful, direct, honest and - most importantly - open. To be sure that we get that message, he mentioned it a few more times, specifically here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and hereWell, that's a long list, a lot of repetition. It's almost spamming. For what, actually? So that we - or more specifically, Enigma - will get the message? The main message seems to be that Enigma refuses to participate in open and honest discussions that Tzu appreciates so much and the subliminal message here seems to be that this kind of behavior is ... lets face it Tzu ... WRONG - at least that's how your message comes across. Or is your message that YOU are open and honest and respectful and the sub-message that ENIGMA is NOT open and honest and respectful is just a minor side effect? Tzu, you've already made your point a gazillion times. We now know what kind of discussions you want - at least in theory. And Enigma is obviously not going to change for you and is not going to put greetings and well wishes into his posts no matter how often you repeat your OHDM. So, why are you still trying to get into an open and honest discussion with Enigma? Is there a possibility that you just let Enigma be Enigma? Wouldn't it be easier to just ignore him? Or is that not an option? Just wondering... I already know what Arisha and Tzu think of Enigma. I've seen it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. If Beingist said "snake" after figgy's posts for a long time and it was considered harassment and bullying, is what Arisha and Tzu have done that much different just because they use more or different words? I just don't view this type of harassment as productive or conducive to any kind of real conversation. It's one thing to state your mind about a particular person from time to time, but doing it over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, every chance you get is crusading. I'd prefer it to stop, but that's just me. I was fed up with it after yesterday and the day before - two solid days of cr*p like that - trouble is, neither one will ignore the other. *shrug* We don't have to read it! Our choice.
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Post by tzujanli on Mar 10, 2013 15:03:43 GMT -5
Greetings.. I already know what Arisha and Tzu think of Enigma. I've seen it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. If Beingist said "snake" after figgy's posts for a long time and it was considered harassment and bullying, is what Arisha and Tzu have done that much different just because they use more or different words? I just don't view this type of harassment as productive or conducive to any kind of real conversation. It's one thing to state your mind about a particular person from time to time, but doing it over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, every chance you get is crusading. I'd prefer it to stop, but that's just me. That would be my preference too. I suggest that you really don't have that preference.. you hold the key to its conclusion on my part, and you do not use it. Be well..
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Post by topology on Mar 10, 2013 15:31:51 GMT -5
Greetings.. That would be my preference too. I suggest that you really don't have that preference.. you hold the key to its conclusion on my part, and you do not use it. Be well.. What exactly is it that you want from Phil before you will stop dogging him?
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Post by tzujanli on Mar 10, 2013 16:12:01 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. I suggest that you really don't have that preference.. you hold the key to its conclusion on my part, and you do not use it. Be well.. What exactly is it that you want from Phil before you will stop dogging him? With all due respect, Top.. Phil understands the nature of this situation very well, and.. frankly, it is the interference by others that enables his avoidance.. Be well..
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Post by laughter on Mar 10, 2013 16:18:09 GMT -5
Topo' ... now you didn't expect him to actually answer that trick question ... didya'?
(... kindly note the respectful wait that ensued after the asking despite the comic opportunity ...)
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Post by enigma on Mar 10, 2013 16:22:15 GMT -5
Greetings.. I suggest that you really don't have that preference.. you hold the key to its conclusion on my part, and you do not use it. Be well.. What exactly is it that you want from Phil before you will stop dogging him? I think he wants OHD, but the problem is that all attempts to accomplish that resulted in more lacerations from his sword. If I had to guess, his definition of OHD is me realizing the error of my ways and finally coming around to his way of thinking, and the fact that I don't is evidence that I'm not being honest and open.
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Post by enigma on Mar 10, 2013 16:29:19 GMT -5
Greetings.. What exactly is it that you want from Phil before you will stop dogging him? With all due respect, Top.. Phil understands the nature of this situation very well, and.. frankly, it is the interference by others that enables his avoidance.. Be well.. I need an enabler to help me avoid your posts?
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Post by topology on Mar 10, 2013 16:49:39 GMT -5
Topo' ... now you didn't expect him to actually answer that trick question ... didya'? (... kindly note the respectful wait that ensued after the asking despite the comic opportunity ...)What trick question? o_0 I thought it was fairly plain and direct.
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Post by silence on Mar 10, 2013 17:00:00 GMT -5
Well, this recent exchage here got my attention: Tzu came here looking for open and honest discussion. Open minded discussions where no one is right and no one is wrong. Tzu likes it respectful, direct, honest and - most importantly - open. To be sure that we get that message, he mentioned it a few more times, specifically here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and hereWell, that's a long list, a lot of repetition. It's almost spamming. For what, actually? So that we - or more specifically, Enigma - will get the message? The main message seems to be that Enigma refuses to participate in open and honest discussions that Tzu appreciates so much and the subliminal message here seems to be that this kind of behavior is ... lets face it Tzu ... WRONG - at least that's how your message comes across. Or is your message that YOU are open and honest and respectful and the sub-message that ENIGMA is NOT open and honest and respectful is just a minor side effect? Tzu, you've already made your point a gazillion times. We now know what kind of discussions you want - at least in theory. And Enigma is obviously not going to change for you and is not going to put greetings and well wishes into his posts no matter how often you repeat your OHDM. So, why are you still trying to get into an open and honest discussion with Enigma? Is there a possibility that you just let Enigma be Enigma? Wouldn't it be easier to just ignore him? Or is that not an option? Just wondering... Yes, it's the behavior of a stalker. I've said before that Enigma DOES have a fan club but the club has put him on a pedestal and then continually tries to tear him off it. There seems to be an inability to reconcile the heightened status that's been assigned with the simultaneous "he's full of it" assessment. Basically Enigma ends up as some sort of villain that people love to hate. And so they do, relentlessly chasing him around the forum with an almost copy/paste mantra. This type of behavior can escalate into some very bizzare territory.
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Post by laughter on Mar 10, 2013 17:01:54 GMT -5
Topo' ... now you didn't expect him to actually answer that trick question ... didya'? (... kindly note the respectful wait that ensued after the asking despite the comic opportunity ...) What trick question? o_0
I thought it was fairly plain and direct. It was plain and direct topo' ... I was just having a little fun at Tzu's expense ... cause I imagine that the honest answer to it would have been the subject thread and I also imagine that Tzu' didn't provide the honest answer because I further imagine that Tzu' takes this thread as an ad hominem attack. That's a triple play! ... but since Reefs put them up in pairs I'll add that I of course imagined that my little jibe was funny ....
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Post by topology on Mar 10, 2013 17:03:18 GMT -5
Greetings.. What exactly is it that you want from Phil before you will stop dogging him? With all due respect, Top.. Phil understands the nature of this situation very well, and.. frankly, it is the interference by others that enables his avoidance.. Be well.. So you're going with the "He knows what he did wrong." and "This is between me and him."? Let me propose then that the reason other people are getting involved is because you are taking what is a personal matter to you and smearing that issue all over the forum for everyone to see and disrupting the flow of threads. If E posts on topic but says something you don't like, you post in response to him with a personal attack at him instead of contributing to the thread. It is a disruption and a squeaky wheel gets the attention. How about you take it to PM or email? Or are you using the forum audience as a tool to achieve your agenda? I'd say if people stepping in is interfering with your purpose then maybe the forum isn't the right medium?
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