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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2013 13:06:48 GMT -5
Methinks you're onto somethin' here MG.
There are so many instances where I've been rather shocked at E's Figgy/Figless' responses (hehe...and then I"m shocked once again, that I'm actually shocked again) and I think that is because I generally sense and regard his her nature to be sincere and integral. It often seems so obvious that he she is denying something that's there, But then it's hard for me to marry that with what I sense about his her inherent interest in actually being honest, above-board and integral.
Therefore, yes, I also suspect that he she truly is 'blind' to what others here are seeing in him her, and thus, he she is not intentionally lying or manipulating or denying. There quite literally is no actual awareness of any of it.
And again, I agree that this "blindness" to all that emanates from his her 'person' is well supported (even created) by his her staunch non-dual alignment full-circle non-attached ease, peace, love and joy walkie talkie. Hafta always be open to ALL possibilities, right? Don't wanna get stuck in one single interpretation for months or years, eh? I dunno...seems to me The fact that I am often 'shocked' indicates that I am not only open to seeing E in a different light, but I actually would welcome it. However, that said, I am also open to the possibility of my own clouded judgement where he is concerned. My opinions are just that....nothing less, nothing more.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2013 13:08:12 GMT -5
Funny eh? What you see as 'word games' I see as a forum conversation with someone who has a different viewpoint. No game.....just an attempt to share, compare and discuss...and ultimately, to understand. I find your position a rather curious one and try as I might to engage you about it, you usually just shut me down with a comment similar to the one above. I have no idea why you've brought my 'offline life' into it...other than to try to insult?. At the root of my interest in conversing with you Chris, is really an attempt to understand where you come from and why. You seem to contradict yourself and I'm simply trying to see if you actually are or if it's just my perception. It's genuine curiosity at the root of my interest in conversing with you, not some twisted need to prove you wrong. Are you open to the possibility at all that maybe just your ideas about Chris are contradictory? Or even that your idea of your doing could contradict what you are actually doing? Sure. But being that this is a forum for the purpose of discussion, I'd appreciate the opportunity to discuss it if that's how he sees it.
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Post by enigma on Feb 15, 2013 13:08:18 GMT -5
Methinks you're onto somethin' here MG.
There are so many instances where I've been rather shocked at E's Figgy/Figless' responses (hehe...and then I"m shocked once again, that I'm actually shocked again) and I think that is because I generally sense and regard his her nature to be sincere and integral. It often seems so obvious that he she is denying something that's there, But then it's hard for me to marry that with what I sense about his her inherent interest in actually being honest, above-board and integral.
Therefore, yes, I also suspect that he she truly is 'blind' to what others here are seeing in him her, and thus, he she is not intentionally lying or manipulating or denying. There quite literally is no actual awareness of any of it.
And again, I agree that this "blindness" to all that emanates from his her 'person' is well supported (even created) by his her staunch non-dual alignment full-circle non-attached ease, peace, love and joy walkie talkie. Hafta always be open to ALL possibilities, right? Don't wanna get stuck in one single interpretation for months or years, eh? As I read the GoatFig posts, I found that I was actually pleased that the dynamic is being seen so clearly. It's good when the reflection is clear.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2013 13:12:14 GMT -5
Hafta always be open to ALL possibilities, right? Don't wanna get stuck in one single interpretation for months or years, eh? As I read the GoatFig posts, I found that I was actually pleased that the dynamic is being seen so clearly. It's good when the reflection is clear. And as I read over what I had written there, and then as I left my computer to putter about, I genuinely considered the possibility of those words applying to me and I acknowledged the possibility that they actually just might. How 'bout you Enigma?
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Post by enigma on Feb 15, 2013 13:45:24 GMT -5
As I read the GoatFig posts, I found that I was actually pleased that the dynamic is being seen so clearly. It's good when the reflection is clear. And as I read over what I had written there, and then as I left my computer to putter about, I genuinely considered the possibility of those words applying to me and I acknowledged the possibility that they actually just might. How 'bout you Enigma? My focus here (and there's no secret about it) is on 'what in blazes is really going on'. I wouldn't say it's about considering possibilities here and there, it's really about a perpetual state of 'noticing'. IOW, there isn't really a 'checking in' because there isn't really a 'checking out'. While reading about the theories as to why Enigma is such a sick puppy, I briefly considered starting one of those 'what's gone horribly wrong with Enigma' threads, but I don't think I really have time for that. One problem is that we would have to back up and look again at the evidence that seems to imply there's a problem. As always, everybody has their own idea as to what I've done wrong. We've had this conversation before and I can't say we've gotten anywhere with it.
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Post by tzujanli on Feb 15, 2013 14:03:08 GMT -5
Greetings.. And as I read over what I had written there, and then as I left my computer to putter about, I genuinely considered the possibility of those words applying to me and I acknowledged the possibility that they actually just might. How 'bout you Enigma? My focus here (and there's no secret about it) is on 'what in blazes is really going on'. I wouldn't say it's about considering possibilities here and there, it's really about a perpetual state of 'noticing'. IOW, there isn't really a 'checking in' because there isn't really a 'checking out'. While reading about the theories as to why Enigma is such a sick puppy, I briefly considered starting one of those 'what's gone horribly wrong with Enigma' threads, but I don't think I really have time for that. One problem is that we would have to back up and look again at the evidence that seems to imply there's a problem. As always, everybody has their own idea as to what I've done wrong. We've had this conversation before and I can't say we've gotten anywhere with it. IOW, you don't really want to explore 'you'.. you are only interested in conversations framed the way you want them to appear.. "Sick puppy" is not an expression i have see others use, so i suspect it is your creative appeal for sympathy and re-framing the discussion.. Your stated preference for 'noticing', isn't consistent with your actions, like story-telling, mocking and misrepresenting the words of others.. that is not 'noticing', that is you conceptualizing and judging.. It would be 'shocking' to experience a sincere open-minded honest discussion with you, open-minded as even the possibility that what you believe is not consistent with what 'is'.. Be well..
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Post by arisha on Feb 15, 2013 14:09:42 GMT -5
Even when one's ideas don't agree with somebody's ideas the communication can be open, honest, direct and sincere. It is mostly like that with plenty of people. But not with you, Enigma. The reason why it's impossible to have an open, direct and sincere communication with you is in the following: you yup-yup conversations where there is agreement with you and you deride all others. There are no exceptions. The post you responded to is open, honest, direct and sincere. So are you saying what I need to do is disagree with those posts I agree with and agree with those I don't? Then it will open, honest, direct and sincere? No. You know what I want to say, but you pretend you don't. Such a post of yours shows that you are too far from being open, honest, direct and sincere. Either that, or you have no idea how the mind of others works, you only know how your own mind works but prefer not to reveal it openly, directly, honestly and sincerely.
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Post by enigma on Feb 15, 2013 14:34:54 GMT -5
Greetings.. My focus here (and there's no secret about it) is on 'what in blazes is really going on'. I wouldn't say it's about considering possibilities here and there, it's really about a perpetual state of 'noticing'. IOW, there isn't really a 'checking in' because there isn't really a 'checking out'. While reading about the theories as to why Enigma is such a sick puppy, I briefly considered starting one of those 'what's gone horribly wrong with Enigma' threads, but I don't think I really have time for that. One problem is that we would have to back up and look again at the evidence that seems to imply there's a problem. As always, everybody has their own idea as to what I've done wrong. We've had this conversation before and I can't say we've gotten anywhere with it. IOW, you don't really want to explore 'you'.. you are only interested in conversations framed the way you want them to appear.. Y'all already devote an unreasonable amount of time to exploring me, and I participate to the degree that it seems potentially useful. I would like to try to get to the bottom of the accusations because there's a whole herd of giraffes there, but I'm just not sure the effort is useful. I don't want anybody's sympathy, it just seems like an accurate way of summarizing the attitude of some. I don't tell stories, purposely misrepresent or judge, and I don't mock nearly as much as you and a few others do.
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Post by enigma on Feb 15, 2013 14:40:23 GMT -5
The post you responded to is open, honest, direct and sincere. So are you saying what I need to do is disagree with those posts I agree with and agree with those I don't? Then it will open, honest, direct and sincere? No. You know what I want to say, but you pretend you don't. Such a post of yours shows that you are too far from being open, honest, direct and sincere. Either that, or you have no idea how the mind of others works, you only know how your own mind works but prefer not to reveal it openly, directly, honestly and sincerely. You don't expect me to address your vague accusations and insults, and surely you don't expect me to change based on those vague attacks. This is why it looks like an attempt to be harmful and hateful. Do you agree?
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Post by topology on Feb 15, 2013 14:42:51 GMT -5
Greetings.. IOW, you don't really want to explore 'you'.. you are only interested in conversations framed the way you want them to appear.. Y'all already devote an unreasonable amount of time to exploring me, and I participate to the degree that it seems potentially useful. I would like to try to get to the bottom of the accusations because there's a whole herd of giraffes there, but I'm just not sure the effort is useful. I don't want anybody's sympathy, it just seems like an accurate way of summarizing the attitude of some. I don't tell stories, purposely misrepresent or judge, and I don't mock nearly as much as you and a few others do. I think if people would just press the "reset" button or "wipe memory" to flush the "last impression formed" that get's used to interpret/relate to a person through. Relating through an old impression is what most people do, but it is so limiting. With respect to confronting someone with a pattern, call it when you see it, drop it if it ain't being expressed. With respect to you, E, it just seems like people get stuck in an impression and can't seem to move past that impression.
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Post by arisha on Feb 15, 2013 15:01:56 GMT -5
No. You know what I want to say, but you pretend you don't. Such a post of yours shows that you are too far from being open, honest, direct and sincere. Either that, or you have no idea how the mind of others works, you only know how your own mind works but prefer not to reveal it openly, directly, honestly and sincerely. You don't expect me to address your vague accusations and insults, and surely you don't expect me to change based on those vague attacks. This is why it looks like an attempt to be harmful and hateful. Do you agree? No. I've already told you that it is your giraffe. You are basically a deluded person.
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Post by enigma on Feb 15, 2013 15:06:49 GMT -5
Y'all already devote an unreasonable amount of time to exploring me, and I participate to the degree that it seems potentially useful. I would like to try to get to the bottom of the accusations because there's a whole herd of giraffes there, but I'm just not sure the effort is useful. I don't want anybody's sympathy, it just seems like an accurate way of summarizing the attitude of some. I don't tell stories, purposely misrepresent or judge, and I don't mock nearly as much as you and a few others do. I think if people would just press the "reset" button or "wipe memory" to flush the "last impression formed" that get's used to interpret/relate to a person through. Relating through an old impression is what most people do, but it is so limiting. With respect to confronting someone with a pattern, call it when you see it, drop it if it ain't being expressed. With respect to you, E, it just seems like people get stuck in an impression and can't seem to move past that impression. Yes, folks don't like what I say and look for patterns of impropriety, and of course find them whether they are there or not. When a few different peeps are all looking for such patterns, there's a natural rezzing and the pattern recognition is reinforced. As the alleged patterns are talked about, this also seems to reinforce the truth of them. Once this has been established, then theories and explanations and cures can be put forward with some confidence. It's natural for there to be a grain of truth at the core of most of these accusations. For example, it's true that I sometimes mock, and that I can be harsh in my direct style, and contradiction is inherent in most of what we talk about here. I also draw some lines regarding my willingness to engage some peeps. I'm doing the best I can and don't have a problem with that, so I'm not likely to fulfill anybody's expectations in the near future.
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Post by enigma on Feb 15, 2013 15:10:33 GMT -5
You don't expect me to address your vague accusations and insults, and surely you don't expect me to change based on those vague attacks. This is why it looks like an attempt to be harmful and hateful. Do you agree? No. I've already told you that it is your giraffe. You are basically a deluded person. Again, you don't expect me to address that vague attack, either internally or in conversation, so are you just trying to cause harm?
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Post by andrew on Feb 15, 2013 15:26:49 GMT -5
And as I read over what I had written there, and then as I left my computer to putter about, I genuinely considered the possibility of those words applying to me and I acknowledged the possibility that they actually just might. How 'bout you Enigma? My focus here (and there's no secret about it) is on 'what in blazes is really going on'. I wouldn't say it's about considering possibilities here and there, it's really about a perpetual state of 'noticing'. IOW, there isn't really a 'checking in' because there isn't really a 'checking out'. As I see it, the problem is not one of sincerity, integrity, courage or even generosity of heart, the problem (kind of ironically) is with the limitation of the ''perpetual state of noticing'', which in my opinion, essentially limits your vision.
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Post by enigma on Feb 15, 2013 16:03:21 GMT -5
My focus here (and there's no secret about it) is on 'what in blazes is really going on'. I wouldn't say it's about considering possibilities here and there, it's really about a perpetual state of 'noticing'. IOW, there isn't really a 'checking in' because there isn't really a 'checking out'. As I see it, the problem is not one of sincerity, integrity, courage or even generosity of heart, the problem (kind of ironically) is with the limitation of the ''perpetual state of noticing'', which in my opinion, essentially limits your vision. I don't understand how that can happen.
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