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Post by arisha on Mar 3, 2013 20:47:58 GMT -5
If my child is having a nightmare, i wake him or her up to explain that the dream is not real, not relevant.. To call waking Life a dream is a disconnect from reality.. waking life has a consistent and verifiable history, and the predictably reasonable expectation that that the universe will be very much the same when we wake as before we went to sleep.. dreams have no predictable or rational sequencing, they are random and often outlandish images unrelated between dreams in the same sleeping period, more so between sleeping periods.. That dreams contain familiar images and/or characters, or because they feel real for a brief interval, is not justification or cause for claiming that "life is a dream".. Life is Life and dreams are dreams.. I appreciate that you do not dispute the rest of my post.. Be well.. Unless specifically stated otherwise, assume I dispute everything you say. But not in writing, thanks god. At least that. You can dispute all you want, but do it just in your mind. We are lucky that you are not able to dispute everything Tzu says here on the forum. And I am sure that nobody is going to assume that what you want people to assume. We can be very well without your delusions.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2013 21:30:33 GMT -5
Unless specifically stated otherwise, assume I dispute everything you say. But not in writing, thanks god. At least that. You can dispute all you want, but do it just in your mind. We are lucky that you are not able to dispute everything Tzu says here on the forum. And I am sure that nobody is going to assume that what you want people to assume. The only thing that can't be disputed is that in which all disputes come and go.
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Post by arisha on Mar 3, 2013 21:32:47 GMT -5
But not in writing, thanks god. At least that. You can dispute all you want, but do it just in your mind. We are lucky that you are not able to dispute everything Tzu says here on the forum. And I am sure that nobody is going to assume that what you want people to assume. The only thing that can't be disputed is that in which all disputes come and go. "that in which" - and what is it? (you see, I am disputing)
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Post by tzujanli on Mar 3, 2013 22:39:48 GMT -5
Greetings.. If my child is having a nightmare, i wake him or her up to explain that the dream is not real, not relevant.. To call waking Life a dream is a disconnect from reality.. waking life has a consistent and verifiable history, and the predictably reasonable expectation that that the universe will be very much the same when we wake as before we went to sleep.. dreams have no predictable or rational sequencing, they are random and often outlandish images unrelated between dreams in the same sleeping period, more so between sleeping periods.. That dreams contain familiar images and/or characters, or because they feel real for a brief interval, is not justification or cause for claiming that "life is a dream".. Life is Life and dreams are dreams.. I appreciate that you do not dispute the rest of my post.. Be well.. Unless specifically stated otherwise, assume I dispute everything you say. No, i won't do that.. unless stated with cause and verifiable evidence supporting your claim of dispute, silence or misrepresentation or evasive dodging will be addressed as invalid responses, affirming acquiescence to the validity of the original claim.. however, open, honest, direct, and respectful discussion will be met in kind.. Be well..
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2013 23:52:19 GMT -5
The only thing that can't be disputed is that in which all disputes come and go. "that in which" - and what is it? (you see, I am disputing) Disputing appears and disputing disappears, Yes? But you can't get behind or on the other side of that which observes disputes to dispute the observer. Disputes arise in the observer, the observer doesn't arise in disputes.
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Post by enigma on Mar 4, 2013 0:53:53 GMT -5
Greetings.. Unless specifically stated otherwise, assume I dispute everything you say. No, i won't do that.. unless stated with cause and verifiable evidence supporting your claim of dispute, silence or misrepresentation or evasive dodging will be addressed as invalid responses, affirming acquiescence to the validity of the original claim.. however, open, honest, direct, and respectful discussion will be met in kind.. Be well.. You expect me to address every insult you direct toward me? Sorry, that just seems like way too much work. The more childish comments will be ignored, as usual.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2013 2:46:26 GMT -5
Oh, I am so happy that you are interested in astrology and numerology, M-G, thank you very much for the link, it is rely awesome. I have so many coincidences in my life, and I feel to be connected with numbers vibrations immensely, the numbers confirm all the time that I am a part of some global totality, - I can feel it with my heart and soul. You're welcome arisha. And i am similar to you regarding numbers and energy vibrations. I rez mostly with odd numbers, especially, 1,3,7,9 and one even number, 6. And i have just realized i am very connected to 17, but i have never researched anything about it, will do so one day. When i upload my Traintrack pics i will post some of the small Zen structures i have made all along the track, they are all multiples of 3.
Speaking of being a part of some global totality, i strongly feel this too whenever i see these combination numbers on whatever digital clock i observe throughout the day ( small sample) - 11:11, 12:12, 12:21, 4:44, 3:33, 2:22, etc.. i am not a time keeper, my lifestyle over the last 20 years afforded me to not have to keep track of time, but this last decade, when i do seldomly look at clocks, well over 90% of the time i will see one of these patterns. I don't understand why i experience this huge amount of synchronicity between me and time, but if touches me deeply. I take it as a sign that i am on track, that i am where i am meant to be.I wouldn't have a clue, but i will go and have a look for you. I envision you are more deeply involved with astrology etc than i am. I go there and just do the personal reading, i have never delved deeper than that. Same with astrology and numerology, I have only explored the surface. Back up in brissie i would once a year, have a 1hr session with this brilliant astrologer at Crystal Castle (a spiritual retreat/tourist attraction, just over the southern border, and situated on a small mountain, on top of a huge ley line that connects to Byron Bay, the uplifting energy at both places is quite strong)
Anyways, i would have a session with him for the sole purpose of confirming elements of my journey that i was aware of, and each time he would be spot on.
Just come back from a long exploration of the Mayan website, can't find any of the the things you mentioned. And my brain is now hurties ! You could facebook the creators of the site as it seems the only way to contact them.Well, i think human beings, who have the ability to assign labels to things, also have the ability to either attach them or not. If a person has no control over what labels they attach to things, they will never change, a person will always view one thing as truth and something else as false. But i theorize according to my own experiences, that people do have the ability to change, so i deduce people do have the ability to choose the how, when and whys they attach labels to things. I am not saying they will, i am saying they have the ability.
Why call others "Oneness vulgarizers" arisha...as all they are doing is expressing their personal view of the subject. It seems to me that you are offended that another has a different view from yours, or is it their behavior towards others due to their beliefs. You don't have to listen to a street preacher if you don't agree with thier views, you can simply keep walking by. They are not forcing their views on anyone, everyone is free to listen or not. It seems to me that if someone of sound mind stops and listens to a street preacher and decides for themself that they agree with what the preacher is saying, then that is their choice, so why should i interfer.If that is how reality is to you, then that is how it is to you arisha. I don't have to apply a wrong label to other's views that i don't agree with. I do agree that i assign meaning to things via judging, but i don't agree that i have to assign specific lables to things. That i can choose to label things in many different ways, and that i can also observe things without assigning any labels. If another wants to believe they have ascended beyond the common understanding of what it is to be human, why does this bother you so.
Perhaps they have achieved what they claim. I haven't experienced what they are experiencing, so i can only speculate they are either deluding themselves or they are actually experiencing what they claim. I have not experienced it myself, so how can i factually judge. All i can do is speculate from my position, from my own experiences.
It's the same with my state of unoffendability. I experience this everyday, but if another doesn't, they may well claim i am deluding myself, as some here have already done so. They do not experience 24/7 unoffendability like i do so it seems rational to me to doubt my claims. But it doesn't bother me if they don't accept what i am saying, nor does it bother me what they claim about their own life. I agree. Judging, evaluating, forming opinions and conclusions are all natural acts people perform on a constant basis throughout their life.But who declares what is a norm. Either the majority or those in power. Norm is a subjective human construct just like right and wrong. Thus a norm does not automatically mean it's actually correct. It just means the majority of people agree it's correct.
I had written a decent amount about Hitler and some other political stuff but have chosen to leave all that out.1) But what is a human. Humanity is learning new things about our species all the time, so humans are whatever the current knowledge is of them, but that knwoeldge and understanding can change. 2) Exactly, let people believe whatever they want, why concern yourself about what another believes.That's agood question arisha, why do people pretend to know things that they have not proved or cannot currently prove while in human form? Through my own inner exploration, i have discovered why i believed in things i had no proof of, and i have removed such beliefs from my life. I have manifested a better life for doing so, but it's up to each individual to self examine, and they don't have to if they don't want to. If a person does not force themself against my personal freedom, i will not interfer in thier beliefs.But arisha, it's only a waste of time for you, not for those that adhere to the teaching. I consider enigma and reefs, as a reference, to be intelligent and thoughtful individuals, so i theorise they have carefully explored the concepts of non duality and have concluded it's the truth about reality. And when they confront silver and others, they do so from a genuine concern for their fellow beings. They want to impart to others the good news they have discovered. However, those that don't live in nonduality world see some of their behavior as irrational and abusive. So the simple thing is to not interact with them, because they are convinced they are doing their best for others.
If a person can be influenced against their will, then perhaps focusing on helping those people to develop their own power so they can't be influenced is a better way to go. That way, if you have helped another to not be influenced, they can then traverse any landscape without being manipulated. But if they have not developed their own power, then you will have to follow them 24/7, protecting them from the plethora of influential elements within reality.
It seems more efficient and liberating to wear a raincoat and walk anywhere outside, than to try to stop the sky from raining and be forced to stay indoors. I do consider the power of influential elements, but self power to not be influenced is more important to me.I partially disagree. If i want others to allow me the freedom to think whatever i want and be happy, then it is wrong for me to tell others what they can and cannot think. The issue of hurting other in the context of beliefs and verbal interactions is very simple to me. Another's words can only hurt me if i accept what is being said. I do not see anyone forcing their opinion on others in ST. Everyone is equally sharing their views, and everyone is free to either accept or refuse what another says.
Granted, i can imagine, due to past experiences, how horrible it is to constantly hear someone claim as fact that i am a messed up individual, that my conclusions are wrong, that i can't see clearly, that i am trapped in illusion, that i have severe mental issues, blah blah blah. But that is just their unsubstantiated opinion, even when they confidently claim it's a fact. It's a simple matter of not accepting their speculations because i have experiential proof that says otherwise, so they can say whatever they want.
It only hurts if you accept it, so the issue is why accept it. Confidently and repeatedly claiming something as fact does not make it fact. From my experiences that have helped develop a high level of self knowing, i simply find it funny when another claims something about me as fact when i know otherwise. They come across as having a few screws loose when they claim ABC about me, when i have factual knowledge it's actually XYZ.
The emphasis is on self knowledge, not allocating time and energy on telling others what they should say or not say to me. They can say whatever they want, because when i know myself, it doesn't matter what others say, it's irrelevant. And being irrelevant, it has no power to influence me.
When i speak of focusing energy toward self development, i am not saying this let's others off the hook for what they are doing. By all means stand up for yourself and others and confront people. But i have learnt that when i am not adversely affected by the behavior of others, my attitude towards them changes from animosity to love for them. They are no longer my combatant, they are simply a loved relative who has some issues that require some loving attention.I am not sure what you mean here, if you like, please clarify.
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Post by arisha on Mar 4, 2013 3:25:00 GMT -5
"that in which" - and what is it? (you see, I am disputing) Disputing appears and disputing disappears, Yes? But you can't get behind or on the other side of that which observes disputes to dispute the observer. Disputes arise in the observer, the observer doesn't arise in disputes. I don't think it's so much important and has much sense to dwell upon it at all.
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Post by arisha on Mar 4, 2013 3:33:48 GMT -5
Greetings.. No, i won't do that.. unless stated with cause and verifiable evidence supporting your claim of dispute, silence or misrepresentation or evasive dodging will be addressed as invalid responses, affirming acquiescence to the validity of the original claim.. however, open, honest, direct, and respectful discussion will be met in kind.. Be well.. You expect me to address every insult you direct toward me? Sorry, that just seems like way too much work. The more childish comments will be ignored, as usual. There are no insults from Tzu, - what are you talking about? You've started calling everything that is not similar to your ideas as insults! Where are those TOO MANY insults from Tzu? Such a statement of yours sounds as an insult, I would say. "The more childish comments"! - Bwha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! You seem to exhaust all the arguments !! Do you notice that you start sounding more and more childish yourself? We do notice that. But it will be good if you ignore the comments. The more you ignore the better Your delusions are 1.too many, 2. too repetitive, and 3. too obvious.
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Post by arisha on Mar 4, 2013 4:59:05 GMT -5
Oh, I am so happy that you are interested in astrology and numerology, M-G, thank you very much for the link, it is rely awesome. I have so many coincidences in my life, and I feel to be connected with numbers vibrations immensely, the numbers confirm all the time that I am a part of some global totality, - I can feel it with my heart and soul. You're welcome arisha. And i am similar to you regarding numbers and energy vibrations. I rez mostly with odd numbers, especially, 1,3,7,9 and one even number, 6. And i have just realized i am very connected to 17, but i have never researched anything about it, will do so one day. When i upload my Traintrack pics i will post some of the small Zen structures i have made all along the track, they are all multiples of 3.
Speaking of being a part of some global totality, i strongly feel this too whenever i see these combination numbers on whatever digital clock i observe throughout the day ( small sample) - 11:11, 12:12, 12:21, 4:44, 3:33, 2:22, etc.. i am not a time keeper, my lifestyle over the last 20 years afforded me to not have to keep track of time, but this last decade, when i do seldomly look at clocks, well over 90% of the time i will see one of these patterns. I don't understand why i experience this huge amount of synchronicity between me and time, but if touches me deeply. I take it as a sign that i am on track, that i am where i am meant to be.I wouldn't have a clue, but i will go and have a look for you. I envision you are more deeply involved with astrology etc than i am. I go there and just do the personal reading, i have never delved deeper than that. Same with astrology and numerology, I have only explored the surface. Back up in brissie i would once a year, have a 1hr session with this brilliant astrologer at Crystal Castle (a spiritual retreat/tourist attraction, just over the southern border, and situated on a small mountain, on top of a huge ley line that connects to Byron Bay, the uplifting energy at both places is quite strong)
Anyways, i would have a session with him for the sole purpose of confirming elements of my journey that i was aware of, and each time he would be spot on.
Just come back from a long exploration of the Mayan website, can't find any of the the things you mentioned. And my brain is now hurties ! You could facebook the creators of the site as it seems the only way to contact them.Well, i think human beings, who have the ability to assign labels to things, also have the ability to either attach them or not. If a person has no control over what labels they attach to things, they will never change, a person will always view one thing as truth and something else as false. But i theorize according to my own experiences, that people do have the ability to change, so i deduce people do have the ability to choose the how, when and whys they attach labels to things. I am not saying they will, i am saying they have the ability.
Why call others "Oneness vulgarizers" arisha...as all they are doing is expressing their personal view of the subject. It seems to me that you are offended that another has a different view from yours, or is it their behavior towards others due to their beliefs. You don't have to listen to a street preacher if you don't agree with thier views, you can simply keep walking by. They are not forcing their views on anyone, everyone is free to listen or not. It seems to me that if someone of sound mind stops and listens to a street preacher and decides for themself that they agree with what the preacher is saying, then that is their choice, so why should i interfer.If that is how reality is to you, then that is how it is to you arisha. I don't have to apply a wrong label to other's views that i don't agree with. I do agree that i assign meaning to things via judging, but i don't agree that i have to assign specific lables to things. That i can choose to label things in many different ways, and that i can also observe things without assigning any labels. If another wants to believe they have ascended beyond the common understanding of what it is to be human, why does this bother you so.
Perhaps they have achieved what they claim. I haven't experienced what they are experiencing, so i can only speculate they are either deluding themselves or they are actually experiencing what they claim. I have not experienced it myself, so how can i factually judge. All i can do is speculate from my position, from my own experiences.
It's the same with my state of unoffendability. I experience this everyday, but if another doesn't, they may well claim i am deluding myself, as some here have already done so. They do not experience 24/7 unoffendability like i do so it seems rational to me to doubt my claims. But it doesn't bother me if they don't accept what i am saying, nor does it bother me what they claim about their own life. I agree. Judging, evaluating, forming opinions and conclusions are all natural acts people perform on a constant basis throughout their life.But who declares what is a norm. Either the majority or those in power. Norm is a subjective human construct just like right and wrong. Thus a norm does not automatically mean it's actually correct. It just means the majority of people agree it's correct.
I had written a decent amount about Hitler and some other political stuff but have chosen to leave all that out.1) But what is a human. Humanity is learning new things about our species all the time, so humans are whatever the current knowledge is of them, but that knwoeldge and understanding can change. 2) Exactly, let people believe whatever they want, why concern yourself about what another believes.That's agood question arisha, why do people pretend to know things that they have not proved or cannot currently prove while in human form? Through my own inner exploration, i have discovered why i believed in things i had no proof of, and i have removed such beliefs from my life. I have manifested a better life for doing so, but it's up to each individual to self examine, and they don't have to if they don't want to. If a person does not force themself against my personal freedom, i will not interfer in thier beliefs.But arisha, it's only a waste of time for you, not for those that adhere to the teaching. I consider enigma and reefs, as a reference, to be intelligent and thoughtful individuals, so i theorise they have carefully explored the concepts of non duality and have concluded it's the truth about reality. And when they confront silver and others, they do so from a genuine concern for their fellow beings. They want to impart to others the good news they have discovered. However, those that don't live in nonduality world see some of their behavior as irrational and abusive. So the simple thing is to not interact with them, because they are convinced they are doing their best for others.
If a person can be influenced against their will, then perhaps focusing on helping those people to develop their own power so they can't be influenced is a better way to go. That way, if you have helped another to not be influenced, they can then traverse any landscape without being manipulated. But if they have not developed their own power, then you will have to follow them 24/7, protecting them from the plethora of influential elements within reality.
It seems more efficient and liberating to wear a raincoat and walk anywhere outside, than to try to stop the sky from raining and be forced to stay indoors. I do consider the power of influential elements, but self power to not be influenced is more important to me.I partially disagree. If i want others to allow me the freedom to think whatever i want and be happy, then it is wrong for me to tell others what they can and cannot think. The issue of hurting other in the context of beliefs and verbal interactions is very simple to me. Another's words can only hurt me if i accept what is being said. I do not see anyone forcing their opinion on others in ST. Everyone is equally sharing their views, and everyone is free to either accept or refuse what another says.
Granted, i can imagine, due to past experiences, how horrible it is to constantly hear someone claim as fact that i am a messed up individual, that my conclusions are wrong, that i can't see clearly, that i am trapped in illusion, that i have severe mental issues, blah blah blah. But that is just their unsubstantiated opinion, even when they confidently claim it's a fact. It's a simple matter of not accepting their speculations because i have experiential proof that says otherwise, so they can say whatever they want.
It only hurts if you accept it, so the issue is why accept it. Confidently and repeatedly claiming something as fact does not make it fact. From my experiences that have helped develop a high level of self knowing, i simply find it funny when another claims something about me as fact when i know otherwise. They come across as having a few screws loose when they claim ABC about me, when i have factual knowledge it's actually XYZ.
The emphasis is on self knowledge, not allocating time and energy on telling others what they should say or not say to me. They can say whatever they want, because when i know myself, it doesn't matter what others say, it's irrelevant. And being irrelevant, it has no power to influence me.
When i speak of focusing energy toward self development, i am not saying this let's others off the hook for what they are doing. By all means stand up for yourself and others and confront people. But i have learnt that when i am not adversely affected by the behavior of others, my attitude towards them changes from animosity to love for them. They are no longer my combatant, they are simply a loved relative who has some issues that require some loving attention.I am not sure what you mean here, if you like, please clarify.Sure, labels can be attached or not, but I am talking not about all labels, but about those which are common to all mankind and generally established norms of - again - HUMAN morality. If such norms are violated - by such monsters as Hitler, or Pol Pot, or some dictators in the African countries, - I don't understand your reasons about seeing it as true, about not interfering, and the stuff like that. When people are tortured, when children are given the cut heads of the prisoners to play football with, - well... I don't think any normal person can say there is no reason to interfere with that. If we don't assign labels to the above mentioned things, then we don't assign the label 'abominable' to such things, and it is abominable by itself. Yes, I will interfere if the preacher says there is nothing wrong about that, and I don't see the logic in your words why I shouldn't. Our discussion is the discussion about things from the point of view of HUMANS - I tried to highlight the word many times to attract your attention to it. It is not a discussion from the point of view of the extraterrestrial beings who have no HUMAN understanding about what is good and evil. As for those who ascended BEYOND the common understanding what is to be human, - let me tell you that I have a strong belief and KNOWLEDGE that they don't exist and can be found only in the morbid imagination of those who need such an image to approve their own unwholesome inclinations as valid . (BTW by Human Understanding I mean good normal and sound understanding about things with the labels of good normal common sense morality). Norm. Yes, norm is what majority of the people agree it's correct. It is the majority which declares the norms which are correct So, those who violate what the majority sees as a norm, are beyond that majority of HUMANS and are isolated from them in this or that way. Among gods and green dots such norms are different from ours, but none of the humans know anything about their norms, so why even mention that in the context of our discussion about HUMANS, from the point of view of HUMANS , and between HUMANS , - as you and me can be and always will be only humans , and you and me cannot know anything about gods' and green dots' points of view, approaches and norms peculiar for them. The knowledge and understanding of humans can change, yes, but we are talking about the NORMS of majority, and such norms are about what is good and evil, - not about some other ideas. What is good and evil can change only in one direction if there is no degradation of humans as HUMANS, - in the direction towards more love and light. So, again, I don't see the point in the context about egomaniacs you've cited. You say you don't interfere with others beliefs, if your personal freedom is not violated, but I do, and I have already explained why. Because others beliefs can be harmful as Hitler's for example. I don't know what you shared on other sites about Hitler, so if you give the links I would be able to get to know about your views, thank you. Clarifying what I said about hurting: everybody is to be responsible for hurting others - again - in the context of the HUMAN norms.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2013 13:58:01 GMT -5
Disputing appears and disputing disappears, Yes? But you can't get behind or on the other side of that which observes disputes to dispute the observer. Disputes arise in the observer, the observer doesn't arise in disputes. I don't think it's so much important and has much sense to dwell upon it at all. It's my turn to dispute that.
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Post by enigma on Mar 4, 2013 14:58:21 GMT -5
I don't think it's so much important and has much sense to dwell upon it at all. It's my turn to dispute that. Me too. Deep mind/body identification has no interest in dwelling upon that which falls into identification, just as it has no interest in non-volition or oneness. It does, however, usually have an interest in morality and correct personal behavior and self righteousness.
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Post by arisha on Mar 4, 2013 15:53:56 GMT -5
It's my turn to dispute that. Me too. Deep mind/body identification has no interest in dwelling upon that which falls into identification, just as it has no interest in non-volition or oneness. It does, however, usually have an interest in morality and correct personal behavior and self righteousness. Deep mind/body identification is what you and everybody inevitably have. If you try to show you don't, because you've chosen such a positioning of yourself, it has nothing to do with truth as such identification is indissolubly connected with your being alive. All those talks about your being free from this identification are a nonsense. If you want to present yourself as the one who has a different level of this identification, - then, of course, you can say about it all you want, - but who cares. You cannot know what interests other people have, so your conclusions and generalizations about them have no grounds. Correct personal behavior and self righteousness is what you are convinced in about yourself, - you demonstrated it a lot on this forum, in every post of yours. So, don't project your own giraffes on me. As for morality which you hate so much, - it's the concept which also has nothing to do with any degree of body/mind identification, does not interfere with it at all, and is not so unimportant as you try to imply : you are still alive due to the laws of morality which protect you from abuse and all sorts of violations on the primary level, - and it is those laws of morality which allow people to grow when they reach the level of spiritual endeavor - so much unreachable for you - as all you have reached so far is the level of the futile talking and much delusion about things you are trying to talk of.
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Post by enigma on Mar 4, 2013 16:10:41 GMT -5
Me too. Deep mind/body identification has no interest in dwelling upon that which falls into identification, just as it has no interest in non-volition or oneness. It does, however, usually have an interest in morality and correct personal behavior and self righteousness. Deep mind/body identification is what you and everybody inevitably have. If you try to show you don't, because you've chosen such a positioning of yourself, it has nothing to do with truth as such identification is indissolubly connected with your being alive. All those talks about your being free from this identification are a nonsense. If you want to present yourself as the one who has a different level of this identification, - then, of course, you can say about it all you want, - but who cares. You cannot know what interests other people have, so your conclusions and generalizations about them have no grounds. Correct personal behavior and self righteousness is what you are convinced in about yourself, - you demonstrated it a lot on this forum, in every post of yours. So, don't project your own giraffes on me. As for morality which you hate so much, - it's the concept which also has nothing to do with any degree of body/mind identification, does not interfere with it at all, and is not so unimportant as you try to imply : you are still alive due to the laws of morality which protect you from abuse and all sorts of violations on the primary level, - and it is those laws of morality which allow people to grow when they reach the level of spiritual endeavor - so much unreachable for you - as all you have reached so far is the level of the futile talking and much delusion about things you are trying to talk of. I'm in favor of laws to help protect peeps, though I don't equate laws with morality. I also have no particular issue with morality (and certainly don't hate it) and I'm also in favor of a strong morality for those who are strongly ego identified. IOW, I encourage your sense of personal morality. It can become problematic when one becomes a self righteous moralist with a focus on how others should behave, often at the expense of their own personal morality.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2013 18:43:31 GMT -5
Sure, labels can be attached or not, but I am talking not about all labels, but about those which are common to all mankind and generally established norms of - again - HUMAN morality. If such norms are violated - by such monsters as Hitler, or Pol Pot, or some dictators in the African countries, - I don't understand your reasons about seeing it as true, about not interfering, and the stuff like that. When people are tortured, when children are given the cut heads of the prisoners to play football with, - well... I don't think any normal person can say there is no reason to interfere with that. But arisha, it's because i never said i would not interfer when a person physically tries to do me harm. Here's one example of what i said...When i speak of focusing energy toward self development, i am not saying this let's others off the hook for what they are doing. By all means stand up for yourself and others and confront people. But i have learnt that when i am not adversely affected by the behavior of others, my attitude towards them changes from animosity to love for them. They are no longer my combatant, they are simply a loved relative who has some issues that require some loving attention. As far as i see, you started this thread to express your view the Oneness concept is incorrect, that you don't agree with the ideas. Then the thread developed into you being troubled that the promotion and adherance to nonduality/oneness ideas is harmful and anyone promoting it is a bad person causing pain and suffering in people's lives. So you are passionate about wiping this theory off the face of the earth. And i keep saying that it doesn't bother me what anyone says about anything. I do not find other's words have the ability to inflict pain and suffering in me.
Within the context of the forum, this non duality forum, the constant topic is non duality, oneness. And within this forum, non dualists can say anything they want about reality and me because it's simply their ideas. They haven't created a reality that adversely affects my life, they haven't influenced me into a worse life or caused me any harm. Alll they are doing is sharing their view of reality, they have not changed reality in anyway.The analogy of the street preacher is they are preaching non duality/oneness...nothing else. This thread is about your concerns of nonduality/oneness..about a theory/concept/belief... not mass murderers, sociopaths, baby torturing,etc. The street preacher is not telling others that murder and torture is acceptable behavior. The street preacher is preaching about non duality/oneness, and in doing so, i choose to let him/her have the freedom to express whatever s/he wants. It is of no concern to me because those words have no adverse effect in my life. The street preacher, just like the nondualits here in ST, are not forcing anything on me, not oppressing my life.
If you judge nonduality/oneness as a threat to human existance, then by all means, do something about it. Find people that feel threatened by a theory when it is presented to them and do your best to protect them. Me, i think it's way more efficient to teach others how to think for themselves and trust their own reasoning in determining what paths they will follow. Plus i have no idea if nonduality/oneness is true or false. My current understanding is it's of no benefit to me, so i don't use it. The concept of freedom and equality is every person has the right to express their thoughts without someone else trying to stop them. If you don't like what another says, simply stop listening to them.You have strong beliefs about a lot of things you do not agree with and you use derogative terms to describe these things you do not agree with and the people who have them. And you are free to have these views, though i don't see the rationale in behaivng that way just because you don't like something that is not being forced upon you. If i don't like quiche and no one is forcing me to eat it, even though they won't shutup about how wonderful it is and are urging me to try it... i simply don't eat it, nor do i need to eradicate all quiches from human society. Ah, good ol' peer pressure.I don't understand why you keep bringing gods and aliens and hitlers and torturers into a discussion about your dislike for the nonduality/oneness concept.Arisha, you keep bringing in other elements other than the nonduality/oneness concept, not me. I just comment on these other elements you bring into the discussion.Please explain how others here in ST, when they share their nonduality/oneness beliefs, how they are doing harm to anyone. I don't want to hear theories or speculations or projections or hypomathematicals. I would like a real example of someone being harmed when an STer shares their ideas.I have never written or shared any stuff about hilter on any other site. I said i has written a ton of stuff about hilter while composing my response to you, but chose to delete it all because to me it's irrelivant to the topic.
Arisha, as desire to reset back to the beginnings of this thread, and if you like, please define your concerns about nonduality/oneness and the actions you wish to take. 'Cus the last couple of interactions seem all over the place to me, incorporating issues not related to your OP.
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