park
Junior Member
Posts: 62 
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Post by park on Nov 26, 2022 10:46:23 GMT -5
Hi all,
I studied political science but did not pursue an academic career. Sometimes I think about researching and writing a paper, just for fun, and one of the topics that occasionally comes to mind is "political views of spiritual teachers". Since I'll probably never put in the effort to actually research it properly, I thought it would be fun to pose the question here.
So: What are the political views of spiritual teachers you are acquainted with?
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Post by andrew on Nov 26, 2022 11:26:05 GMT -5
Hi all, I studied political science but did not pursue an academic career. Sometimes I think about researching and writing a paper, just for fun, and one of the topics that occasionally comes to mind is "political views of spiritual teachers". Since I'll probably never put in the effort to actually research it properly, I thought it would be fun to pose the question here. So: What are the political views of spiritual teachers you are acquainted with? Eckhart Tolle recently talked with Russell Brand, and in his own way, expressed a quite strong political view (he basically called the leading politicians of the world 'stupid'). It's an interesting question you raise, because prior to 2020, it was semi-easy for spiritual teachers to avoid the minefield of politics if they wanted to. It's become more difficult in recent years, for example, last year Spira held a meeting in which only vaccinated people could attend, which is taking a political position, whether he wants to take one or not. I would actually argue that we can't be in this world, without being political in some way, shape or form, but prior to 2020, this was less obvious, or relevant. So while I think many teachers would rather continue to avoid taking political positions, given the state of the world today, it can rarely be avoided (there may be some exceptions). Where one shops is a political statement. Whether one uses petrol or electric is a political statement. But it's why I appreciate Tolle being willing to actually talk about it, and openly take a position of sorts. Better perhaps to deal with the current state, than to avoid it. (Sree likes this post  ) |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 26, 2022 12:17:14 GMT -5
Hi all, I studied political science but did not pursue an academic career. Sometimes I think about researching and writing a paper, just for fun, and one of the topics that occasionally comes to mind is "political views of spiritual teachers". Since I'll probably never put in the effort to actually research it properly, I thought it would be fun to pose the question here. So: What are the political views of spiritual teachers you are acquainted with? All over the place. Bart Marshall is apparently into QAnon (based on things he said during a TAT-sponsored ND zoom meeting), whereas Gangaji is politically on the other end of the spectrum. Many teachers won't express a view because they know that it will likely detract from their primary message. |
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park
Junior Member
Posts: 62
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Post by park on Nov 26, 2022 12:56:57 GMT -5
All over the place. Bart Marshall is apparently into QAnon (based on things he said during a TAT-sponsored ND zoom meeting), whereas Gangaji is politically on the other end of the spectrum. Many teachers won't express a view because they know that it will likely detract from their primary message. I also participated in a ND zoom with Bart and his views were a serious koan for me. "How does an enlightened teacher have (what I believe to be) insane political views?". I finally came to the view that these are two distinct hierarchies of insight. So if an enlightened teacher can be a bad cook or have poor understanding of biology, she can also have (what I believe to be) low-level political views and insight into politics. So would you say that spiritual realization and insights do not tend to produce views that cluster in a distinct place as compared to the general population? That would be interesting, since my assumption would be that they do. On a different note, when I was a first-year leftist political science student I believed that right-wing people were, basically, stupid, ill-intentioned and misinformed. It took a year or two to realize that they were not and just have different values. I consider that an excellent real-life koan in the domain of politics. Most of my leftist friends still believe what I believed  |
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Post by andrew on Nov 26, 2022 15:27:45 GMT -5
I believe both sides (left and right) contain shadows and aspects of existential truth.
The left value practical co-operation and compassion (over competition) which is a shadow of unity consciousness and oneness. The right value sovereignty and freedom (over regulation and control) which is a shadow of existential beingness.
Up until 2020, I leaned more left than right, because I believed the leftist shadows benefitted the world more. But in the last couple of years, it seems to me that what is intrinsically good about the left has been buried beneath toxic authoritarianism and control (not just in America, but all around the world). For some on the left, the want for co-operation has morphed into a want to punish perceived enemies, and compassion has become intolerance for what does not fit their world-view. As part of that, sovereignty and freedom have been unhealthily demonized.
But maybe that's been changing again recently.
My ideal is that we will come into balance, heal the division, and move forward with the very best of both sides (include and go beyond)
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Post by inavalan on Nov 26, 2022 15:36:43 GMT -5
Hi all, I studied political science but did not pursue an academic career. Sometimes I think about researching and writing a paper, just for fun, and one of the topics that occasionally comes to mind is "political views of spiritual teachers". Since I'll probably never put in the effort to actually research it properly, I thought it would be fun to pose the question here. So: What are the political views of spiritual teachers you are acquainted with? Eckhart Tolle recently talked with Russell Brand, and in his own way, expressed a quite strong political view (he basically called the leading politicians of the world 'stupid'). It's an interesting question you raise, because prior to 2020, it was semi-easy for spiritual teachers to avoid the minefield of politics if they wanted to. It's become more difficult in recent years, for example, last year Spira held a meeting in which only vaccinated people could attend, which is taking a political position, whether he wants to take one or not. I would actually argue that we can't be in this world, without being political in some way, shape or form, but prior to 2020, this was less obvious, or relevant. So while I think many teachers would rather continue to avoid taking political positions, given the state of the world today, it can rarely be avoided (there may be some exceptions). Where one shops is a political statement. Whether one uses petrol or electric is a political statement. But it's why I appreciate Tolle being willing to actually talk about it, and openly take a position of sorts. Better perhaps to deal with the current state, than to avoid it. (Sree likes this post ) I remember that video It didn't strike me as a political, and it seemed to have a wider reach than being about the leading politicians' "stupidity". In this video Tolle contrasts stupidity with wisdom, not with intelligence. He expresses the belief that what's happening isn't the result of a widely reaching conspiracy, in spite of various groups' and individuals' trying to take advantage. |
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Post by inavalan on Nov 26, 2022 16:01:32 GMT -5
I also participated in a ND zoom with Bart and his views were a serious koan for me. "How does an enlightened teacher have (what I believe to be) insane political views?". I finally came to the view that these are two distinct hierarchies of insight. So if an enlightened teacher can be a bad cook or have poor understanding of biology, she can also have (what I believe to be) low-level political views and insight into politics. So would you say that spiritual realization and insights do not tend to produce views that cluster in a distinct place as compared to the general population? That would be interesting, since my assumption would be that they do. On a different note, when I was a first-year leftist political science student I believed that right-wing people were, basically, stupid, ill-intentioned and misinformed. It took a year or two to realize that they were not and just have different values. I consider that an excellent real-life koan in the domain of politics. Most of my leftist friends still believe what I believed Regarding That isn't a koan. That teacher may have wisdom that the pupil doesn't have. Obviously, the "left" isn't necessarily right. It just believes it is right. The fact that somebody calls themselves "progressive", doesn't mean that they are progressive from others' perspective. No majority of opinion can establish that. We're all under some hypnosis and perceive reality with some distortions, and selective thinking. By definition, having your critical-thinking bypassed, and engaging in selective-thinking means you're in a somnambulistic trance, a highly suggestive state that allows full and partial anesthesia, full and partial amnesia, and some remarkable experiences. In a video I recently linked to, Itzhak Bentov was explaining that the more highly evolved tail of the population distribution is, most likely, in a nuthouse. |
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Post by andrew on Nov 26, 2022 17:51:15 GMT -5
Eckhart Tolle recently talked with Russell Brand, and in his own way, expressed a quite strong political view (he basically called the leading politicians of the world 'stupid'). It's an interesting question you raise, because prior to 2020, it was semi-easy for spiritual teachers to avoid the minefield of politics if they wanted to. It's become more difficult in recent years, for example, last year Spira held a meeting in which only vaccinated people could attend, which is taking a political position, whether he wants to take one or not. I would actually argue that we can't be in this world, without being political in some way, shape or form, but prior to 2020, this was less obvious, or relevant. So while I think many teachers would rather continue to avoid taking political positions, given the state of the world today, it can rarely be avoided (there may be some exceptions). Where one shops is a political statement. Whether one uses petrol or electric is a political statement. But it's why I appreciate Tolle being willing to actually talk about it, and openly take a position of sorts. Better perhaps to deal with the current state, than to avoid it. (Sree likes this post ) I remember that video It didn't strike me as a political, and it seemed to have a wider reach than being about the leading politicians' "stupidity". In this video Tolle contrasts stupidity with wisdom, not with intelligence. He expresses the belief that what's happening isn't the result of a widely reaching conspiracy, in spite of various groups' and individuals' trying to take advantage. Well, he compliments Russell on his challenging of 'insane people' (he even used the word 'monsters'), he talked of what 'politicians and media are doing', he spoke of the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, biological warfare, he speaks of 'interest groups that manipulate events', there's an acknowledgement of a 'Great Reset'..... it's all very political, and it's condemnation its own way. But as you say, it's condemnation of their 'stupidity' rather than their 'evil nature'. My view is that the powerful people/groups in the world do conspire together to protect and consolidate their interests, and I don't consider that a 'theory', because I see a ton of evidence of that. The only question for me is how MUCH they conspire i.e to what extent they act opportunistically, and to what extent these events are planned. I agree with Tolle that these people are devoid of wisdom, but they are intellectually smart in some cases. |
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Post by andrew on Nov 26, 2022 20:26:32 GMT -5
Most things about 'the world' suck you in.. and you'll remain 'captured by thought' thinking about them.. It is a waste of time and an unnecessary cause of heartache Personally, I mostly enjoy watching and participating in this game, similar to the way I used to enjoy watching or playing sport when I was young. I see it as quite spectacular in its own way, and we have front row seats, with audience participation. I pay attention to my involvement, it's important for me to find the line between useful and destructive participation. I don't always get it right, I have bad days. |
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Post by zazeniac on Nov 26, 2022 22:50:31 GMT -5
Hi all, I studied political science but did not pursue an academic career. Sometimes I think about researching and writing a paper, just for fun, and one of the topics that occasionally comes to mind is "political views of spiritual teachers". Since I'll probably never put in the effort to actually research it properly, I thought it would be fun to pose the question here. So: What are the political views of spiritual teachers you are acquainted with? Well, ideologies come and go, movements come and go, even religions ebb and flow. I don't know about the other jokers here, but what I seek is a bit more permanent. |
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Post by andrew on Nov 27, 2022 8:51:53 GMT -5
Anyone here know the basic tenets and beliefs of QAnonism? It looks like you are asking as a joke, but I thought about it. Wasn't it fundamentally driven by Christian ethics i.e a belief in God and the bible, the American constitution, traditional Christian morality (good vs evil), conservative values and structures e.g nuclear family, protestant work ethic, the right to bear arms etc. I just used search engine....yeah, it looks like I'm on the right lines. And at the opposite end of the spectrum, we have the atheist/humanist/materialist movement that underpins transhumanism (the merging of the biological with the digital). |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 27, 2022 9:11:10 GMT -5
Anyone here know the basic tenets and beliefs of QAnonism? It looks like you are asking as a joke, but I thought about it. Wasn't it fundamentally driven by Christian ethics i.e a belief in God and the bible, the American constitution, traditional Christian morality (good vs evil), conservative values and structures e.g nuclear family, protestant work ethic, the right to bear arms etc. I just used search engine....yeah, it looks like I'm on the right lines. And at the opposite end of the spectrum, we have the atheist/humanist/materialist movement that underpins transhumanism (the merging of the biological with the digital). Lizard people, shapeshifting, mass grooming, pedophiles, adults eating children, blood-sucking, one-world order, evil elites, Trump returning to power as a result of secret groups in control of the military, cave in Antarctica leading to center of the earth, flat earth, fake moon landing, end times, etc? There are QAnon people who believe all of this and more. |
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Post by andrew on Nov 27, 2022 9:38:54 GMT -5
It looks like you are asking as a joke, but I thought about it. Wasn't it fundamentally driven by Christian ethics i.e a belief in God and the bible, the American constitution, traditional Christian morality (good vs evil), conservative values and structures e.g nuclear family, protestant work ethic, the right to bear arms etc. I just used search engine....yeah, it looks like I'm on the right lines. And at the opposite end of the spectrum, we have the atheist/humanist/materialist movement that underpins transhumanism (the merging of the biological with the digital). Lizard people, shapeshifting, mass grooming, pedophiles, adults eating children, blood-sucking, one-world order, evil elites, Trump returning to power as a result of secret groups in control of the military, cave in Antarctica leading to center of the earth, flat earth, fake moon landing, end times, etc? There are QAnon people who believe all of this and more. That's the 'conspiracy' side of it, and a lot of that stuff I suspend judgement/opinion on in the absence of compelling evidence for me to be confident about, but I was looking at the 'basic tenets/beliefs', and the little search I did confirmed that QAnon disproportionately attracts Christians. I believe at least some of them see what's happening as a religious war, and I don't think they are wholly wrong about that, but the war is unfolding at a global level (i.e America is just one small part of it). On that basis, the one 'conspiracy' you mentioned that I am confident of is the 'one world order' (or 'new world order') Many national leaders have openly used those words to describe the changes that are happening. John McIntosh is a non-dualist, and I like the way he talks about this... THE END GAME -John McIntosh ''The world is awash in high drama, intrigue and tyranny at this moment. Most of humanity [due to their ‘deep sleep’] is only aware of the significantly increased difficulty in navigating life from day to day. A growing number are becoming aware that ‘something’ is JUST NOT RIGHT with ‘the world picture’ … while another category having done in depth genuine research have studied the enormous highly credible evidence of what has been going on ‘front-and-center’ for almost three years and mostly behind the scenes for over 120 years. Remember, we are speaking about the ‘narrative’ of a dream … the world is NOT real but within its ‘script’ there ‘is’ a kind of dream-reality. Even those who have become familiar with the heroes of the story and the game they are playing … do NOT know much of what is going on – only that the darkness is being ‘balanced’ [most would say ‘crushed’, but within the dream of separation there is ‘always’ dark and light]. The important thing [on the surface] to know, is that the ‘End Game’ is assured, and that end is a Happy Dream, which will last for about 2,000 years. These cycles of ‘imbalance’ and ‘relative balance’ [what most would call peace] come and go as long as the ONE SELF dwells [conscious of IT SELF or not] ‘within’ the Grand Dream … and NOTHING can change the outcomes as a new era comes into being as it has been doing for a decade.'' |
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Post by andrew on Nov 27, 2022 9:48:05 GMT -5
It looks like you are asking as a joke, but I thought about it. Wasn't it fundamentally driven by Christian ethics i.e a belief in God and the bible, the American constitution, traditional Christian morality (good vs evil), conservative values and structures e.g nuclear family, protestant work ethic, the right to bear arms etc. I just used search engine....yeah, it looks like I'm on the right lines. And at the opposite end of the spectrum, we have the atheist/humanist/materialist movement that underpins transhumanism (the merging of the biological with the digital). Sorry I was kinda joking, I've always just assumed the group is a grift or a cult, and I was surprised to hear Bart had interest in it.. Well, at the core of the movement is the observation that something is deeply wrong with the structures, dynamics and systems of America and the world, and I would say they are right about that. It doesn't take a conspiracy theorist or cult member to make that judgment. On that basis, it's not a grift (though I assume that some folks make money out of it). As for whether it's a cult, well...I guess it could be defined as such, but then I'd say that if it is a cult, then 'progressivism' is equally a cult, and I could give examples of that. |
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Post by andrew on Nov 27, 2022 13:17:00 GMT -5
Well, at the core of the movement is the observation that something is deeply wrong with the structures, dynamics and systems of America and the world, and I would say they are right about that. It doesn't take a conspiracy theorist or cult member to make that judgment. On that basis, it's not a grift (though I assume that some folks make money out of it). As for whether it's a cult, well...I guess it could be defined as such, but then I'd say that if it is a cult, then 'progressivism' is equally a cult, and I could give examples of that. theres nothing 'deeply wrong' anywhere Sure there is. Raping kids is deeply wrong. You sure you aren't part of a cult? (with Robert)? |
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