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Post by sree on Nov 27, 2022 13:37:48 GMT -5
theres nothing 'deeply wrong' anywhere Sure there is. Raping kids is deeply wrong. You sure you aren't part of a cult? (with Robert)? Is Robert a cultist? Which cult? |
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Post by andrew on Nov 27, 2022 13:46:38 GMT -5
Sure there is. Raping kids is deeply wrong. You sure you aren't part of a cult? (with Robert)? Is Robert a cultist? Which cult? That was based on his liking of Farmer's post. I may have been a bit strong, but I'm interested to see if they will directly contradict me. |
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Post by sree on Nov 27, 2022 14:07:25 GMT -5
Sorry I was kinda joking, I've always just assumed the group is a grift or a cult, and I was surprised to hear Bart had interest in it.. Well, at the core of the movement is the observation that something is deeply wrong with the structures, dynamics and systems of America and the world, and I would say they are right about that. It doesn't take a conspiracy theorist or cult member to make that judgment. On that basis, it's not a grift (though I assume that some folks make money out of it). As for whether it's a cult, well...I guess it could be defined as such, but then I'd say that if it is a cult, then 'progressivism' is equally a cult, and I could give examples of that. What examples?
zendancer's skepticism is fair comment. We just don't know what to believe anymore. However, your suspicion that something nefarious is going on cannot be dismissed. I don't see how we can examine this in a spiritual context unless you view social order as an integral part of inner order as viewed in Chinese philosophy.
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Post by sree on Nov 27, 2022 14:13:03 GMT -5
Is Robert a cultist? Which cult? That was based on his liking of Farmer's post. I may have been a bit strong, but I'm interested to see if they will directly contradict me. Robert is not in this thread. |
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Post by tenka on Nov 27, 2022 14:38:07 GMT -5
Hi all, I studied political science but did not pursue an academic career. Sometimes I think about researching and writing a paper, just for fun, and one of the topics that occasionally comes to mind is "political views of spiritual teachers". Since I'll probably never put in the effort to actually research it properly, I thought it would be fun to pose the question here. So: What are the political views of spiritual teachers you are acquainted with? Eckhart Tolle recently talked with Russell Brand, and in his own way, expressed a quite strong political view (he basically called the leading politicians of the world 'stupid'). It's an interesting question you raise, because prior to 2020, it was semi-easy for spiritual teachers to avoid the minefield of politics if they wanted to. It's become more difficult in recent years, for example, last year Spira held a meeting in which only vaccinated people could attend, which is taking a political position, whether he wants to take one or not. I would actually argue that we can't be in this world, without being political in some way, shape or form, but prior to 2020, this was less obvious, or relevant. So while I think many teachers would rather continue to avoid taking political positions, given the state of the world today, it can rarely be avoided (there may be some exceptions). Where one shops is a political statement. Whether one uses petrol or electric is a political statement. But it's why I appreciate Tolle being willing to actually talk about it, and openly take a position of sorts. Better perhaps to deal with the current state, than to avoid it. (Sree likes this post  ) I saw a little of this video .. I thought Tolle was a little niave to be honest suggesting that these world leaders don't really have an agenda. I think from what I watched Russel was a little too respectful and didn't say wtf Tolle |
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Post by sree on Nov 27, 2022 14:42:04 GMT -5
Hi all, I studied political science but did not pursue an academic career. Sometimes I think about researching and writing a paper, just for fun, and one of the topics that occasionally comes to mind is "political views of spiritual teachers". Since I'll probably never put in the effort to actually research it properly, I thought it would be fun to pose the question here. So: What are the political views of spiritual teachers you are acquainted with? Chinese thought (philosophical tradition of the scholars) is concerned with social harmony. Western academia labeled this thought form as Confucianism. It is based on the concept of the cultivation of the perfect person, the man, at the center of the family; and the nuclear family comprising father (man), mother (woman), and children as the fundamental unit of the society (nation).
Islam is regarded in the west as a political movement governing society. I have no knowledge of the tenets of Islam. Perhaps, a Muslim or a knowledgeable member can say something about this.
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Post by sree on Nov 27, 2022 14:44:34 GMT -5
Sure there is. Raping kids is deeply wrong. You sure you aren't part of a cult? (with Robert)? males hump females, of all ages. same as it ever was does any other species impose an age limit? All species except humans impose an age limit set by God.
In the wild, males don't hump females unless they are on heat. |
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Post by sree on Nov 27, 2022 14:48:09 GMT -5
Eckhart Tolle recently talked with Russell Brand, and in his own way, expressed a quite strong political view (he basically called the leading politicians of the world 'stupid'). It's an interesting question you raise, because prior to 2020, it was semi-easy for spiritual teachers to avoid the minefield of politics if they wanted to. It's become more difficult in recent years, for example, last year Spira held a meeting in which only vaccinated people could attend, which is taking a political position, whether he wants to take one or not. I would actually argue that we can't be in this world, without being political in some way, shape or form, but prior to 2020, this was less obvious, or relevant. So while I think many teachers would rather continue to avoid taking political positions, given the state of the world today, it can rarely be avoided (there may be some exceptions). Where one shops is a political statement. Whether one uses petrol or electric is a political statement. But it's why I appreciate Tolle being willing to actually talk about it, and openly take a position of sorts. Better perhaps to deal with the current state, than to avoid it. (Sree likes this post ) I saw a little of this video .. I thought Tolle was a little niave to be honest suggesting that these world leaders don't really have an agenda. I think from what I watched Russel was a little too respectful and didn't say wtf Tolle Tolle, in that video, was a pot calling the kettles black. Tolle doesn't know what he is teaching also;and yet, he has made $70 million speaking to idiots.
Russell is another new-age number.
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Post by tenka on Nov 27, 2022 14:51:27 GMT -5
I saw a little of this video .. I thought Tolle was a little niave to be honest suggesting that these world leaders don't really have an agenda. I think from what I watched Russel was a little too respectful and didn't say wtf Tolle Tolle, in that video, was a pot calling the kettles black. Tolle doesn't know what he is teaching also;and yet, he has made $70 million speaking to idiots.
Russell is another new-age number.
I am not a huge fan of Tolle and have spoken about his hypocrisy regarding attachments and such likes whilst selling Tolles soap on a rope and amassing millions . He is just doing what he is meant to be doing .. |
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Post by andrew on Nov 27, 2022 14:57:23 GMT -5
Well, at the core of the movement is the observation that something is deeply wrong with the structures, dynamics and systems of America and the world, and I would say they are right about that. It doesn't take a conspiracy theorist or cult member to make that judgment. On that basis, it's not a grift (though I assume that some folks make money out of it). As for whether it's a cult, well...I guess it could be defined as such, but then I'd say that if it is a cult, then 'progressivism' is equally a cult, and I could give examples of that. What examples?
zendancer's skepticism is fair comment. We just don't know what to believe anymore. However, your suspicion that something nefarious is going on cannot be dismissed. I don't see how we can examine this in a spiritual context unless you view social order as an integral part of inner order as viewed in Chinese philosophy.
I believe that the world is an expression/reflection of our collective existential understandings, and so to that extent I believe that talking about what's happening in the world is a spiritual context of discussion. We tend to avoid that kind of discussion here, because it doesn't fit with the forum rules (and I try somewhat to respect them), but I would say it's always bubbling beneath the surface, for the reason I stated (the world is an expression/reflection). In this day and age, it's even more difficult to avoid than it was 5-10 years ago, though even then, we recognized that there's a point at which 'the rubber meets the road', and we certainly explored themes of morality, and judgement, and what it means practically to accept, to resist, to act with wisdom etc....all of these themes must be discussed in practical terms. When it comes to conspiracies, there's so much 'actual conspiracy' that's observably true, that I don't think it's necessary to bang the drum of what is more speculative. I do find quite a lot of the speculative stuff to be plausible, but conspiracy 'theorists' are oddly blessed these days, because we no longer HAVE to speculate. What's happening is right in front of our faces. There's a co-ordinated shift being driven from the top, towards a 'Reset', a '4th industrial revolution', a transhumanist world. This is an economic-cultural-philosophical shift, that redefines what it means to be a 'human being'. Now whether one sees that as nefarious or not is somewhat in the eye of the beholder, but at a minimum, I would say this shift is highly undemocratic, and while this shift is not being hidden from view, I would say that people's eyes are diverted to a great extent from what's happening. We are all explorers here of what it means to be a 'human being' so I consider this issue to be very pertinent. In a spiritual sense, I believe we are witnessing and participating in a sort of climax to the SVP. The ending of a cycle. On the one hand, the transhumanists seek to consolidate the SVP eternally. On the other hand, their push to consolidate the SVP is making people look far more closely at their values, and their existential understandings. Many people are deeply uncomfortable with transhumanism, as they should be. It's peak materialism. I would say it runs counter to our true nature as spiritual beings, and counter to natural law. (this point is countered by the transhumanists by saying, 'if it happens, it's natural'). So there's an odd dynamic to the push for the 'Reset', in that the harder they push for it, the more that people awaken from the nightmare of the SVP. |
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Post by andrew on Nov 27, 2022 15:07:05 GMT -5
Sure there is. Raping kids is deeply wrong. You sure you aren't part of a cult? (with Robert)? males hump females, of all ages. same as it ever was does any other species impose an age limit? I'm not going to rationally discuss this with you, because any rational discussion subtly legitimizes child rape, and I'm not going to help you with that. I understand there's a context to assassinate the ideas of 'right and wrong', but this is not that context, and it just looks like you've gone down a spiritual rabbit hole. Sree asked for an example of the cult of 'progressivism', and this is a great example. The normalization of paedophilia has been happening in progressive circles. |
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Post by andrew on Nov 27, 2022 15:12:40 GMT -5
Eckhart Tolle recently talked with Russell Brand, and in his own way, expressed a quite strong political view (he basically called the leading politicians of the world 'stupid'). It's an interesting question you raise, because prior to 2020, it was semi-easy for spiritual teachers to avoid the minefield of politics if they wanted to. It's become more difficult in recent years, for example, last year Spira held a meeting in which only vaccinated people could attend, which is taking a political position, whether he wants to take one or not. I would actually argue that we can't be in this world, without being political in some way, shape or form, but prior to 2020, this was less obvious, or relevant. So while I think many teachers would rather continue to avoid taking political positions, given the state of the world today, it can rarely be avoided (there may be some exceptions). Where one shops is a political statement. Whether one uses petrol or electric is a political statement. But it's why I appreciate Tolle being willing to actually talk about it, and openly take a position of sorts. Better perhaps to deal with the current state, than to avoid it. (Sree likes this post ) I saw a little of this video .. I thought Tolle was a little niave to be honest suggesting that these world leaders don't really have an agenda. I think from what I watched Russel was a little too respectful and didn't say wtf Tolle I think there's a limit to how far he's willing to go. It's just not okay for him to be too suspicious or cynical, it's not part of his personality, and would sort of contradict his teaching, which is his current responsibility. He'd rather see them as devoid of wisdom, which I find easy to agree with...they are spiritually bankrupt. I was just happy to see him going as far as he did. |
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Post by andrew on Nov 27, 2022 15:15:45 GMT -5
All species except humans impose an age limit set by God.
In the wild, males don't hump females unless they are on heat. just because humans are smarter than anything else doesnt set us apart Yes it does. We have the capacity to consider morals. We have the capacity to move our attention/focus at will. We have remarkable capacity to consciously create. I don't consider us superior to animals, in fact, I'd often rather spend time with animals than humans, but our biological make up does make us quite unique in particular ways. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2022 15:20:55 GMT -5
Hi all, I studied political science but did not pursue an academic career. Sometimes I think about researching and writing a paper, just for fun, and one of the topics that occasionally comes to mind is "political views of spiritual teachers". Since I'll probably never put in the effort to actually research it properly, I thought it would be fun to pose the question here. So: What are the political views of spiritual teachers you are acquainted with? "Render unto Caesar, that which is Caesar's. Render unto God, that which is God's" |
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Post by andrew on Nov 27, 2022 15:22:59 GMT -5
I'm not going to rationally discuss this with you, because any rational discussion subtly legitimizes child rape, and I'm not going to help you with that. I understand there's a context to assassinate the ideas of 'right and wrong', but this is not that context, and it just looks like you've gone down a spiritual rabbit hole. Sree asked for an example of the cult of 'progressivism', and this is a great example. The normalization of paedophilia has been happening in progressive circles. got a huge problem with pedohilia in your immediate circle? yeah, me neither Maybe you draw the boundary of your circle a lot smaller than me (but I do know people that were abused as children) We can say that it's all God, it's all Divine, it's all Love. I get what is meant by 'perfection'. I understand the relative aspect of 'right and wrong'. And yet I would say that 'deeply wrong' can still exist in conjunction with all that. Being present in the moment includes 'deeply wrong', and there are contextual limits as to how far we can assassinate 'wrongness'. In the world we are living in today, there's really no avoiding taking political positions to some extent, because it's a politicized world. That's just the way it is right now. You've taken one here...a strong one. |
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