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Post by laughter on Nov 29, 2022 3:24:34 GMT -5
I get the impression that he's actually more amused by their antics than he is judgy of them, but that's not to preclude a compassion for people suffering because of the oppression. Yes, I'd agree that he doesn't see his role as the same as Russell see's his, but moreover, I don't think Tolle thinks or perceives in these notions of "roles" at all, at least not very seriously and more of an after-the-fact perspective. And I have to admit to the possibility of some measure of projection on my part in those opinions.  Yeah I got a sense of amusement too. That impish look on his face I don't think he takes roles very seriously either, though I was surprised a few years ago when I heard him say that before he took on the role of teacher, he believed his role was going to be that of a healer. To be clear, I'm not surprised he considered himself a healer, I was more just surprised that he was contemplating his roles at all. So even though he doesn't take them very seriously, they are still a 'thing' to him i.e I think he feels a sense of light responsibility engendered to whatever particular role he assumes. He actually wrote a paragraph on that very topic in his later intro to Now. He describes a sort of gradual process where he fell into it. During his time on the park bench he was completely shed of any cultural shadow, and he writes about eventually realizing that the identity of a teacher had snuck up on him. His having imagined the possibility of being a healer is a new story point, thanks for sharing that. I have to opine though, that Tolle as teacher or healer is somewhat of a dwad. (Not that I'm accusing you of dwaddling, mind you!) |
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Post by laughter on Nov 29, 2022 3:28:59 GMT -5
 I don't remember much from that book. Only read it once. Was a major disappointment and let down for me relative to Now, at the time. But I remember enough that we should christen him with a middle name: E. N.T. .. (bet you know what the "N" stands for but please don't feel shy to ask me if it isn't obvious and you find it obscure ... 
) It seems to me that 'The Power Of Now' was given to me by a 'higher force'. It was at a time in my life when I had just finished seeing a counsellor for 9 months, I had no thought of 'enlightenment' or anything like that, but knew that I was searching for something beyond society conventions. I saw it on a bookshelf and it was almost as if it was lit up. I knew instantly I had to read the book, and sure enough, it had a big effect on me (I'm not going to say it was all 'positive'). I also loved 'Stillness Speaks' a couple of years later, which I also happened upon in a book shop in Australia. It was different with 'A New Earth'. I knew it was coming. I saw adverts. I was keen in advance to read it. I was going to pour over those pages and get something grandiose from it. There was no spontaneity in the movement to read it, and....I got nothing out of it, except a slight sense of emptiness and disappointment. I don't think I even finished it. Some years later I went back and flicked through it. It's a good book. Maybe it did have a profound impact for some folks....but I sort of doubt it. I think the stars lined up with 'The Power Of Now', it came along at the right time, for a lot of people. The stars weren't quite as lined up with 'A New Earth'. It doesn't surprise me that he hasn't written much since (in book form). You are going to have to tell me what the 'N' stands for.....  Byron Katie's book, 'I Need Your Love. Is That True?' is one of those other rare books that also seemed like it was 'divinely given' to me. Why, the 'N' stands for Nostrodamus, of course. I remember you writing about how Now eventually led you into some negative states, and I can definitely see how that might happen for some people. That was the peril of "split-mind" that E' was interested in and warned about. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 29, 2022 3:42:29 GMT -5
ok so I re-watched it .. (this time all the way through) Tolle did say that Brand was doing something right if he's being called a conspiracy theorist. He also acknowledged the "great reset" plan, and made reference to the insane narratives that are being created. He also (later on near the very end) acknowledges that there are interest groups working behind the scenes. So, now, the part that I guess you're referring to probly starts around 6:25 where he says that "it's all been planned is one way of looking at it ...", and then at the end when he referred to "they know not what they do". Would that be right?The distinction between negligence and malice is an interesting one that runs as a thread throughout the law. It also eventually winds up at yet another version of the existential question. E' used to say that "the larger context Donald Trumps the little context."  .. so I'd say that Tolle doesn't entirely discount the notion that there are nefarious top-down agenda's, but rather, he puts them into an existential context. Yes, that about the size of it . Tolle at that point was just referring to how stupid these people are with there being no agenda per se . If he spoke like you said later on to suggest there are groups working behind the scenes then fair enough, but it seems that he thinks that those that are making the stupid decisions are none the wiser . I made my comment mainly because I thought that Russel held back some what in these times because he likes him and respects him . If you listen to Russel often then you know he doesn't really hold back, especially with the corruption of big Pharma and government leaders and officials. Seen a few of his vids and always enjoy them. Russell probly affords the imp some respect, 'cause it was likely the imp that had something to do with the scales falling away from his eyes. Tolle definitely covered both sides of the deliberate/negligent coin, and not just at the end, but sort of like bookends before and after what he said about them being stupid and "not knowing what they do". It was subtle though, I don't fault your perception. |
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Post by andrew on Nov 29, 2022 3:51:31 GMT -5
It seems to me that 'The Power Of Now' was given to me by a 'higher force'. It was at a time in my life when I had just finished seeing a counsellor for 9 months, I had no thought of 'enlightenment' or anything like that, but knew that I was searching for something beyond society conventions. I saw it on a bookshelf and it was almost as if it was lit up. I knew instantly I had to read the book, and sure enough, it had a big effect on me (I'm not going to say it was all 'positive'). I also loved 'Stillness Speaks' a couple of years later, which I also happened upon in a book shop in Australia. It was different with 'A New Earth'. I knew it was coming. I saw adverts. I was keen in advance to read it. I was going to pour over those pages and get something grandiose from it. There was no spontaneity in the movement to read it, and....I got nothing out of it, except a slight sense of emptiness and disappointment. I don't think I even finished it. Some years later I went back and flicked through it. It's a good book. Maybe it did have a profound impact for some folks....but I sort of doubt it. I think the stars lined up with 'The Power Of Now', it came along at the right time, for a lot of people. The stars weren't quite as lined up with 'A New Earth'. It doesn't surprise me that he hasn't written much since (in book form). You are going to have to tell me what the 'N' stands for..... Byron Katie's book, 'I Need Your Love. Is That True?' is one of those other rare books that also seemed like it was 'divinely given' to me. W hy, the 'N' stands for Nostrodamus, of course. I remember you writing about how Now eventually led you into some negative states, and I can definitely see how that might happen for some people. That was the peril of "split-mind" that E' was interested in and warned about. Ahh haha yep! Yeah, TPON did lead me to a 'split mind' effect. I wouldn't blame the book for that though. It's more accurate to say that at that time I was always going to go to war with something, so it might as well be the mind/ego, as anything else! Ultimately, I believe Tolle was a profound aspect of my path, and I like him very much as a person too. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2022 5:53:09 GMT -5
Yeah. Accepting WHAT IS means that if I saw someone drowning I'd just accept it and keep walking. What nonsense! Some of you need to start taking your meds again. Nah, it would mean accepting having to strip down to your underwear in public or getting your clothes all wet. Get it?  I'm confused. You said "Nah" but then you agreed with Zazeniac. His sentence "Accepting WHAT IS .... keep walking" is sarcastic imitation of what some others (maybe just sree) had posted. - Zeniac Whisperer |
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Post by shadowplay on Nov 29, 2022 6:52:40 GMT -5
The pointer to just accept WHAT IS can be nebulous and misleading. Which part of your experience are you meant to accept. If someone walked into your room and started removing your computer would you accept that? Of course not - there would be an impulse to prevent them. Should you accept that impulse? But isn't that impulse born out of a wish for things to be different therefore not accepting the present situation? These sort of questions highlight the limitation and murky nature of the pointer. The pointer is (innocently enough) born out of the realisation that all there IS is THIS - however THIS manifests. In the seeing of this there is, by default, the acknowledgement/acceptance that whatever happens - and whatever response that elicits - it is ALREADY the expression of a deeper principle at work. It is the recognition of the deeper principle that is key here. Seems to me that this is precisely the point that the Bhagavad Gita and Hamlet are both trying to get across. Billy Shakes wrote his version with a bit more empathy for the dilemma of the people peep. Don’t know about Hamlet but I do see a sideways connection with al-Tirmidhi when he advises to ‘trust in God… but first tie up your camel’. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 29, 2022 14:26:16 GMT -5
Nah, it would mean accepting having to strip down to your underwear in public or getting your clothes all wet. Get it? I'm confused. You said "Nah" but then you agreed with Zazeniac. His sentence "Accepting WHAT IS .... keep walking" is sarcastic imitation of what some others (maybe just sree) had posted. - Zeniac Whisperer Humorous ribbing banter can sometimes seem confusing. Here, I'll get serious, but know that no joke ever survives contact with an explanation. "Accepting what is" isn't a relative thingy. Similar to LOA, or "is this person enlightened?" it's a context mix, and can have similar disastrous results for the people peep who thinks they're following the prescription. Remember satchi's Ramana quote about the fake cop? But, on the flip side, another way to look at it is that people-peeps know not what they do, so it implicates the dialog I'm having with tenka about what Tolle said to Brand. E' used to like to write: "everyone is always doing the best that they can". The ego has no role in "accepting what is", but when we indulge in these hypotheticals we're using the butcher blade of the thinking mind to carve up the pointer. So, does "accepting what is" mean accepting that the drowning person is doomed? Or, does "accepting what is" mean that we have to accept diving in and getting wet and trying to save them? Once you shift from the absolute to the relative, you risk the deception of mind. For whatever it might be worth to ya', there's a link here to how I describe what I perceive to be the ideal practice for a Christian. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 29, 2022 14:28:06 GMT -5
Seems to me that this is precisely the point that the Bhagavad Gita and Hamlet are both trying to get across. Billy Shakes wrote his version with a bit more empathy for the dilemma of the people peep. Don’t know about Hamlet but I do see a sideways connection with al-Tirmidhi when he advises to ‘trust in God… but first tie up your camel’. .. never herd of the guy, but I like it. Between Hamlet and Prospero I suspect that Billy had some sort of contact with Hindu culture. But if he didn't, that would be an even more interesting possibility. Unlike Arjuna, Hamlet was on his own, and man, does it show. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 29, 2022 14:39:46 GMT -5
Nah, it would mean accepting having to strip down to your underwear in public or getting your clothes all wet. Get it? Do you know how to approach and apprehend a drowning adult? If not they might be dragging your bloated body out of the river too. No, but I did manage to lug-swim one of those portable folding canvas chairs across a very deep channel up at the lake a few summers ago. It was in the early fall and the lake (it's a reservoir) depletes, so this channel was only about 20 feet across. I threw the thing in, it went about 6 ft, swam over to it, and about halfway over I contemplated letting it sink, but didn't want to leave that pollution there, 'cause that's our drinking supply. |
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Post by sree on Nov 29, 2022 15:47:28 GMT -5
I was only invited to prayers in Pusan by the Imam, I think. He did not perform the prayers that were conducted by a brown-skinned Malaysian from Kelatan. In Kuala Lumpur, I could only walk around the mosque grounds outside the prayer hall where tourists were milling about. I did live among Muslims in Malaysia and Indonesia and discussed Islam with them. I still remember sitting in a circle in a room with them. It's no different from chatting with you guys here in the forum except that there was no sniping and throwing insults at each other. It was a very cordial almost conspiratorial affair, the kind of scene we see in western movies about Muslims planning an attack on something.
okey dokey then, no big deal but you were apparently playing coy here: I have no knowledge of the tenets of Islam. Perhaps, a Muslim or a knowledgeable member can say something about this. What do you mean coy? I am not like you guys reading up on eastern religions written by western fools and then strut around as authorities on every word of wisdom uttered by the ancients of the east.
A muslim who befriended me in Kuala Lumpur would now and then give me a book on Islamic writings by religious scholars. He publishes those book besides being a patron of the Islamic Museum and an orphanage in South Africa. He was tall, very refined looking, and exuded the dignified air of Osama bin Laden. He never discussed Islamic tenets with me. He also didn't know that I don't read. I would glance through his books and stick them in the book shelves in my pied-à-terre one floor below his penthouse apartment of the condo I was living in whenever I was in town. Syed wasn't your American idea of a dumb muslim fit for a drone strike. You guys really need to travel like me, open your minds to being human, and not SVPs within the homeland you need to protect.
Anyway, Syed went to school in Switzerland, spent most of his youth in Scandinavia and Germany, hung out with new-age potheads on the spiritual path, and finally found peace with the Rudolph Steiner movement there. So, he must know all this ND crap you guys are wallowing in. And yet, he returned to Islam. I picked up a copy of the Quran a long time ago and read a few suras. They seemed like stuff taken out of the Old Testament. The only Islamic text (translated into English) that I studied more in detail was the Hadith. It is just a book of pithy sayings not unlike those of George Bernard Shaw. And that's all the Islamic tenets I know.
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Post by laughter on Nov 29, 2022 19:54:21 GMT -5
okey dokey then, no big deal but you were apparently playing coy here: What do you mean coy? I am not like you guys reading up on eastern religions written by western fools and then strut around as authorities on every word of wisdom uttered by the ancients of the east. A muslim who befriended me in Kuala Lumpur would now and then give me a book on Islamic writings by religious scholars. He publishes those book besides being a patron of the Islamic Museum and an orphanage in South Africa. He was tall, very refined looking, and exuded the dignified air of Osama bin Laden. He never discussed Islamic tenets with me. He also didn't know that I don't read. I would glance through his books and stick them in the book shelves in my pied-à-terre one floor below his penthouse apartment of the condo I was living in whenever I was in town. Syed wasn't your American idea of a dumb muslim fit for a drone strike. You guys really need to travel like me, open your minds to being human, and not SVPs within the homeland you need to protect. Anyway, Syed went to school in Switzerland, spent most of his youth in Scandinavia and Germany, hung out with new-age potheads on the spiritual path, and finally found peace with the Rudolph Steiner movement there. So, he must know all this ND crap you guys are wallowing in. And yet, he returned to Islam. I picked up a copy of the Quran a long time ago and read a few suras. They seemed like stuff taken out of the Old Testament. The only Islamic text (translated into English) that I studied more in detail was the Hadith. It is just a book of pithy sayings not unlike those of George Bernard Shaw. And that's all the Islamic tenets I know.
, (to the extent you're not trying to be humorous) the dialogs would have less pollution if you'd refrain from projecting ugly states of mind onto us. The more you share of these anecdotes the more you contradict this. Islam is regarded in the west as a political movement governing society. I have no knowledge of the tenets of Islam. Perhaps, a Muslim or a knowledgeable member can say something about this.
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Post by sree on Nov 29, 2022 20:13:18 GMT -5
What do you mean coy? I am not like you guys reading up on eastern religions written by western fools and then strut around as authorities on every word of wisdom uttered by the ancients of the east. A muslim who befriended me in Kuala Lumpur would now and then give me a book on Islamic writings by religious scholars. He publishes those book besides being a patron of the Islamic Museum and an orphanage in South Africa. He was tall, very refined looking, and exuded the dignified air of Osama bin Laden. He never discussed Islamic tenets with me. He also didn't know that I don't read. I would glance through his books and stick them in the book shelves in my pied-à-terre one floor below his penthouse apartment of the condo I was living in whenever I was in town. Syed wasn't your American idea of a dumb muslim fit for a drone strike. You guys really need to travel like me, open your minds to being human, and not SVPs within the homeland you need to protect. Anyway, Syed went to school in Switzerland, spent most of his youth in Scandinavia and Germany, hung out with new-age potheads on the spiritual path, and finally found peace with the Rudolph Steiner movement there. So, he must know all this ND crap you guys are wallowing in. And yet, he returned to Islam. I picked up a copy of the Quran a long time ago and read a few suras. They seemed like stuff taken out of the Old Testament. The only Islamic text (translated into English) that I studied more in detail was the Hadith. It is just a book of pithy sayings not unlike those of George Bernard Shaw. And that's all the Islamic tenets I know.
, (to the extent you're not trying to be humorous) the dialogs would have less pollution if you'd refrain from projecting ugly states of mind onto us. The more you share of these anecdotes the more you contradict this. Islam is regarded in the west as a political movement governing society. I have no knowledge of the tenets of Islam. Perhaps, a Muslim or a knowledgeable member can say something about this.
I wish you would refrain from speaking obliquely and be direct and come to the point.
What ugly states of mind are you talking about precisely? It is ok if you are correct in calling me out. What are you afraid of?
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Post by laughter on Nov 29, 2022 20:19:11 GMT -5
No, rather, (to the extent you're not trying to be humorous) the dialogs would have less pollution if you'd refrain from projecting ugly states of mind onto us. The more you share of these anecdotes the more you contradict this. I wish you would refrain from speaking obliquely and be direct and come to the point.
What ugly states of mind are you talking about precisely? It is ok if you are correct in calling me out. What are you afraid of?
It's right there in red. English much? You miss the obvious (or, at least, pretend to miss the obvious) and then imagine and project fear onto me. Fascinating. |
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I don't remember much from that book. Only read it once. Was a major disappointment and let down for me relative to Now, at the time. But I remember enough that we should christen him with a middle name: E.N.T. .. (bet you know what the "N" stands for but please don't feel shy to ask me if it isn't obvious and you find it obscure ... 
.. so I'd say that Tolle doesn't entirely discount the notion that there are nefarious top-down agenda's, but rather, he puts them into an existential context.
