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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2022 19:16:44 GMT -5
Certainly, if this is your opinion of him, then pay him no mind.  I never do but you guys keep bringing him up like the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. Shush now, all that mental spinning and overwrought imagination will give you nausea. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2022 19:21:46 GMT -5
I've read that the direct English translation of "Islam" is "submission". Gotta be careful, Laffy. We are the Great Satan to Islam. Our perception of Islam can't be good. But I have spent time among Muslims, not in the Middle East but in Asia: Indonesia and Malaysia. One time, I was invited into a mosque in Pusan, South Korea. I sat among the faithfuls on the floor, bowing when they do, head touching the floor, all that stuff. The Koreans practice Islam no different from the way we practice Christianity. It's just a religion to them. No fuss. Not so, in Malaysia where as a non-Muslim, I was not allowed inside the mosque proper where prayers are held.
So you went to mosques with " no idea of the tenets of Islam"? Twice (at least)? In two different countries? |
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2022 19:23:28 GMT -5
Let's give sree the benefit of the doubt here on the trolling. His negative perception of Tolle's wealth is a common one among people with spiritual interests, and if sree sincerely believes that the world could and should be a better place (which I have a suspicion that he does), then I can imagine how he might see ET's perspective to be one that would encourage a dangerous complacency. Okay, true. And I can see that "spiritual teachers" are pretty absurd from a certain point of view. I've taken some shots, especially when they give themselves fancy names, like Mr. Ulrich Tölle. AdyaBobbie |
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Post by sree on Nov 27, 2022 19:46:10 GMT -5
Gotta be careful, Laffy. We are the Great Satan to Islam. Our perception of Islam can't be good. But I have spent time among Muslims, not in the Middle East but in Asia: Indonesia and Malaysia. One time, I was invited into a mosque in Pusan, South Korea. I sat among the faithfuls on the floor, bowing when they do, head touching the floor, all that stuff. The Koreans practice Islam no different from the way we practice Christianity. It's just a religion to them. No fuss. Not so, in Malaysia where as a non-Muslim, I was not allowed inside the mosque proper where prayers are held.
So you went to mosques with " no idea of the tenets of Islam"? Twice (at least)? In two different countries? I was only invited to prayers in Pusan by the Imam, I think. He did not perform the prayers that were conducted by a brown-skinned Malaysian from Kelatan. In Kuala Lumpur, I could only walk around the mosque grounds outside the prayer hall where tourists were milling about.
I did live among Muslims in Malaysia and Indonesia and discussed Islam with them. I still remember sitting in a circle in a room with them. It's no different from chatting with you guys here in the forum except that there was no sniping and throwing insults at each other. It was a very cordial almost conspiratorial affair, the kind of scene we see in western movies about Muslims planning an attack on something.
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Post by inavalan on Nov 27, 2022 22:08:40 GMT -5
Your good-sense reply reminds that last evening a relative said " how can they be against immigrants; we're all immigrants". As Tolle pointed in his Brand video (by the way, I don't follow Tolle, and I don't subscribe to his spiritual views; nor Brand's for that matter), apparently intelligent people don't see things wisely, they are unconsciously misled (hypnotized) by their sources or information. In the discussion about immigration, the "opposers" object to illegal and chaotic immigration, because it is a threat to country's security, and citizens' welfare. But, in many cases, you can't "open" others' minds. They could do that only themselves. One of the most transparent sort of media psyops is false guilt by association. Just because it's true that most anti-immigrants are MAGA doesn't mean that every MAGA hates all immigrants, and just because likely every drag queen giving a story hour to pre-teens has progressive politics means that all child-trafficker's are Democrats. It's actually pretty interesting to apply this to false flags, and how today's false flag can lead to tomorrow's unconscious extremism. But none of this is all that spiritual. Not directly anyway, only tangentially as it relates to human nature and mind. I think that the spiritual aspect here is that many people who claim spiritual interest don't behave in agreement with the spiritual beliefs that they believe they embrace. In my opinion, this is more detrimental to them than being unsure. You may have experienced dreams in which at some point you wondered if you were dreaming, or hoped to be dreaming. You tested some action that is impossible when you're awake (flying, go through solid objects, ...), and guess what: it didn't work because you didn't believe you were dreaming. You woke up later realizing the you were dreaming after all. Beliefs filter our perceptions. |
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Post by sree on Nov 27, 2022 22:49:35 GMT -5
males hump females, of all ages. same as it ever was does any other species impose an age limit? Male lions just cut to the chase and snap the necks of the other guys cubs. Is there any truth to this story? |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 27, 2022 23:27:31 GMT -5
I think that this applies to this discussion:  Well, you see, what farmer wrote about not wanting anything to be other than what it is doesn't preclude one from working so that it doesn't necessarily have to stay that way.  It's a subjective commentary. A description of non-reactivity to appearances that doesn't suggest inaction. And yes. This makes no logical sense. It makes sense even though it isn't logical.  |
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Post by sree on Nov 28, 2022 9:41:17 GMT -5
I'm not sure what to make of his comment. Trolling? Oblivious? Let's give sree the benefit of the doubt here on the trolling. His negative perception of Tolle's wealth is a common one among people with spiritual interests, and if sree sincerely believes that the world could and should be a better place (which I have a suspicion that he does), then I can imagine how he might see ET's perspective to be one that would encourage a dangerous complacency. My father is an American venture capitalist and my hero who dispensed his money on me with largesse. The impulse to make money is never a bad thing. The predator and the prey is a natural setup. The rat has to watch its step. It's never the cat's fault.
I don't subscribe to our hypocritical do-good morality. I was pointing to Tolle's spirituality compared to Krishnamurti's spirituality. Tolle is speaking to idiots, and so was Krishnamurti. In the kind of world the SVP has created, money is as vital to the well-being of the body as air. Tolle has to make a living to take care of his body. I have said before that I live better than Krishnamurti whose circumstance was nothing to sneeze at. Mary Zimbalist was his caretaker and lived with him. She was a millionaire.
The manner in which Krishnamurti came into a life of wealth was not through acquisition of wealth in a capitalist marketplace. I don't think he cared about money. Money came to him in a manner that I found amazing. It's one of those things that drew me to spiritual inquiry. I believe that humanity has the same birthright of abundance that is blocked by the SVP. |
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Post by zazeniac on Nov 28, 2022 10:34:17 GMT -5
Yeah. Accepting WHAT IS means that if I saw someone drowning I'd just accept it and keep walking. What nonsense! Some of you need to start taking your meds again.
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Post by sree on Nov 28, 2022 10:54:49 GMT -5
Yeah. Accepting WHAT IS means that if I saw someone drowning I'd just accept it and keep walking. What nonsense! Some of you need to start taking your meds again.
Who are you railing at, zazeniac? You talking to me?
Accepting what is doesn't mean stifling all impulses to respond to things at hand. "WHAT IS" means one's situation in life. Someone drowning is not quite the same as mankind drowning.
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Post by shadowplay on Nov 28, 2022 11:27:11 GMT -5
Yeah. Accepting WHAT IS means that if I saw someone drowning I'd just accept it and keep walking. What nonsense! Some of you need to start taking your meds again. The pointer to just accept WHAT IS can be nebulous and misleading. Which part of your experience are you meant to accept. If someone walked into your room and started removing your computer would you accept that? Of course not - there would be an impulse to prevent them. Should you accept that impulse? But isn't that impulse born out of a wish for things to be different therefore not accepting the present situation? These sort of questions highlight the limitation and murky nature of the pointer. The pointer is (innocently enough) born out of the realisation that all there IS is THIS - however THIS manifests. In the seeing of this there is, by default, the acknowledgement/acceptance that whatever happens - and whatever response that elicits - it is ALREADY the expression of a deeper principle at work. It is the recognition of the deeper principle that is key here. |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 28, 2022 12:00:46 GMT -5
Yeah. Accepting WHAT IS means that if I saw someone drowning I'd just accept it and keep walking. What nonsense! Some of you need to start taking your meds again. The pointer to just accept WHAT IS can be nebulous and misleading. Which part of your experience are you meant to accept. If someone walked into your room and started removing your computer would you accept that? Of course not - there would be an impulse to prevent them. Should you accept that impulse? But isn't that impulse born out of a wish for things to be different therefore not accepting the present situation? These sort of questions highlight the limitation and murky nature of the pointer. The pointer is (innocently enough) born out of the realisation that all there IS is THIS - however THIS manifests. In the seeing of this there is, by default, the acknowledgement/acceptance that whatever happens - and whatever response that elicits - it is ALREADY the expression of a deeper principle at work. It is the recognition of the deeper principle that is key here. Yes, accepting "what is" doesn't mean that one won't help others, work to relieve suffering, donate to charitable causes, work for climate change or world peace, or take whatever appropriate actions seem most applicable in whatever situation arises. The "deeper principle," when embodied, is not self-centered; it is Self-centered. |
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Post by andrew on Nov 28, 2022 12:50:39 GMT -5
The pointer to just accept WHAT IS can be nebulous and misleading. Which part of your experience are you meant to accept. If someone walked into your room and started removing your computer would you accept that? Of course not - there would be an impulse to prevent them. Should you accept that impulse? But isn't that impulse born out of a wish for things to be different therefore not accepting the present situation? These sort of questions highlight the limitation and murky nature of the pointer. The pointer is (innocently enough) born out of the realisation that all there IS is THIS - however THIS manifests. In the seeing of this there is, by default, the acknowledgement/acceptance that whatever happens - and whatever response that elicits - it is ALREADY the expression of a deeper principle at work. It is the recognition of the deeper principle that is key here. Yes, accepting "what is" doesn't mean that one won't help others, work to relieve suffering, donate to charitable causes, work for climate change or world peace, or take whatever appropriate actions seem most applicable in whatever situation arises. The "deeper principle," when embodied, is not self-centered; it is Self-centered. I like the way you expressed this (and shadowplay's words too). |
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Post by andrew on Nov 28, 2022 12:55:28 GMT -5
I think there's a limit to how far he's willing to go. It's just not okay for him to be too suspicious or cynical, it's not part of his personality, and would sort of contradict his teaching, which is his current responsibility. He'd rather see them as devoid of wisdom, which I find easy to agree with...they are spiritually bankrupt. I was just happy to see him going as far as he did. I get the impression that he's actually more amused by their antics than he is judgy of them, but that's not to preclude a compassion for people suffering because of the oppression. Yes, I'd agree that he doesn't see his role as the same as Russell see's his, but moreover, I don't think Tolle thinks or perceives in these notions of "roles" at all, at least not very seriously and more of an after-the-fact perspective. And I have to admit to the possibility of some measure of projection on my part in those opinions. Yeah I got a sense of amusement too. That impish look on his face I don't think he takes roles very seriously either, though I was surprised a few years ago when I heard him say that before he took on the role of teacher, he believed his role was going to be that of a healer. To be clear, I'm not surprised he considered himself a healer, I was more just surprised that he was contemplating his roles at all. So even though he doesn't take them very seriously, they are still a 'thing' to him i.e I think he feels a sense of light responsibility engendered to whatever particular role he assumes. |
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Post by andrew on Nov 28, 2022 13:06:09 GMT -5
haha yeah I had that thought about 'New Earth' too. He doesn't have a smug or self-righteous bone in his body, but I allowed myself to feel it for him just a touch  I don't remember much from that book. Only read it once. Was a major disappointment and let down for me relative to Now, at the time. But I remember enough that we should christen him with a middle name: E. N.T. .. (bet you know what the "N" stands for but please don't feel shy to ask me if it isn't obvious and you find it obscure ... 
)It seems to me that 'The Power Of Now' was given to me by a 'higher force'. It was at a time in my life when I had just finished seeing a counsellor for 9 months, I had no thought of 'enlightenment' or anything like that, but knew that I was searching for something beyond society conventions. I saw it on a bookshelf and it was almost as if it was lit up. I knew instantly I had to read the book, and sure enough, it had a big effect on me (I'm not going to say it was all 'positive'). I also loved 'Stillness Speaks' a couple of years later, which I also happened upon in a book shop in Australia. It was different with 'A New Earth'. I knew it was coming. I saw adverts. I was keen in advance to read it. I was going to pour over those pages and get something grandiose from it. There was no spontaneity in the movement to read it, and....I got nothing out of it, except a slight sense of emptiness and disappointment. I don't think I even finished it. Some years later I went back and flicked through it. It's a good book. Maybe it did have a profound impact for some folks....but I sort of doubt it. I think the stars lined up with 'The Power Of Now', it came along at the right time, for a lot of people. The stars weren't quite as lined up with 'A New Earth'. It doesn't surprise me that he hasn't written much since (in book form). You are going to have to tell me what the 'N' stands for..... Byron Katie's book, 'I Need Your Love. Is That True?' is one of those other rare books that also seemed like it was 'divinely given' to me. |
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It's a subjective commentary. A description of non-reactivity to appearances that doesn't suggest inaction. And yes. This makes no logical sense.
I don't remember much from that book. Only read it once. Was a major disappointment and let down for me relative to Now, at the time. But I remember enough that we should christen him with a middle name: E.N.T. .. (bet you know what the "N" stands for but please don't feel shy to ask me if it isn't obvious and you find it obscure ...