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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2022 17:41:31 GMT -5
Eckhart Tolle recently talked with Russell Brand, and in his own way, expressed a quite strong political view (he basically called the leading politicians of the world 'stupid'). It's an interesting question you raise, because prior to 2020, it was semi-easy for spiritual teachers to avoid the minefield of politics if they wanted to. It's become more difficult in recent years, for example, last year Spira held a meeting in which only vaccinated people could attend, which is taking a political position, whether he wants to take one or not. I would actually argue that we can't be in this world, without being political in some way, shape or form, but prior to 2020, this was less obvious, or relevant. So while I think many teachers would rather continue to avoid taking political positions, given the state of the world today, it can rarely be avoided (there may be some exceptions). Where one shops is a political statement. Whether one uses petrol or electric is a political statement. But it's why I appreciate Tolle being willing to actually talk about it, and openly take a position of sorts. Better perhaps to deal with the current state, than to avoid it. (Sree likes this post  ) I saw a little of this video .. I thought Tolle was a little niave to be honest suggesting that these world leaders don't really have an agenda. I think from what I watched Russel was a little too respectful and didn't say wtf Tolle ok so I re-watched it .. (this time all the way through) Tolle did say that Brand was doing something right if he's being called a conspiracy theorist. He also acknowledged the "great reset" plan, and made reference to the insane narratives that are being created. He also (later on near the very end) acknowledges that there are interest groups working behind the scenes. So, now, the part that I guess you're referring to probly starts around 6:25 where he says that "it's all been planned is one way of looking at it ...", and then at the end when he referred to "they know not what they do". Would that be right? The distinction between negligence and malice is an interesting one that runs as a thread throughout the law. It also eventually winds up at yet another version of the existential question. E' used to say that "the larger context Donald Trumps the little context."  .. so I'd say that Tolle doesn't entirely discount the notion that there are nefarious top-down agenda's, but rather, he puts them into an existential context. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2022 17:44:28 GMT -5
Hi all, I studied political science but did not pursue an academic career. Sometimes I think about researching and writing a paper, just for fun, and one of the topics that occasionally comes to mind is "political views of spiritual teachers". Since I'll probably never put in the effort to actually research it properly, I thought it would be fun to pose the question here. So: What are the political views of spiritual teachers you are acquainted with? Chinese thought (philosophical tradition of the scholars) is concerned with social harmony. Western academia labeled this thought form as Confucianism. It is based on the concept of the cultivation of the perfect person, the man, at the center of the family; and the nuclear family comprising father (man), mother (woman), and children as the fundamental unit of the society (nation).
Islam is regarded in the west as a political movement governing society. I have no knowledge of the tenets of Islam. Perhaps, a Muslim or a knowledgeable member can say something about this.
I've read that the direct English translation of "Islam" is "submission". |
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2022 18:02:14 GMT -5
I saw a little of this video .. I thought Tolle was a little niave to be honest suggesting that these world leaders don't really have an agenda. I think from what I watched Russel was a little too respectful and didn't say wtf Tolle Tolle, in that video, was a pot calling the kettles black. Tolle doesn't know what he is teaching also;and yet, he has made $70 million speaking to idiots. Russell is another new-age number.
Certainly, if this is your opinion of him, then pay him no mind.  |
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2022 18:05:05 GMT -5
All species except humans impose an age limit set by God.
In the wild, males don't hump females unless they are on heat. just because humans are smarter than anything else doesnt set us apart Well it does distinguish us. Not always for the better .. .. but not always for the worse, either. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2022 18:12:15 GMT -5
Tolle, in that video, was a pot calling the kettles black. Tolle doesn't know what he is teaching also;and yet, he has made $70 million speaking to idiots. Russell is another new-age number.
Certainly, if this is your opinion of him, then pay him no mind. I'm not sure what to make of his comment. Trolling? Oblivious? |
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2022 18:14:28 GMT -5
I saw a little of this video .. I thought Tolle was a little niave to be honest suggesting that these world leaders don't really have an agenda. I think from what I watched Russel was a little too respectful and didn't say wtf Tolle I think there's a limit to how far he's willing to go. It's just not okay for him to be too suspicious or cynical, it's not part of his personality, and would sort of contradict his teaching, which is his current responsibility. He'd rather see them as devoid of wisdom, which I find easy to agree with...they are spiritually bankrupt. I was just happy to see him going as far as he did. I get the impression that he's actually more amused by their antics than he is judgy of them, but that's not to preclude a compassion for people suffering because of the oppression. Yes, I'd agree that he doesn't see his role as the same as Russell see's his, but moreover, I don't think Tolle thinks or perceives in these notions of "roles" at all, at least not very seriously and more of an after-the-fact perspective. And I have to admit to the possibility of some measure of projection on my part in those opinions. |
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Post by sree on Nov 27, 2022 18:16:19 GMT -5
Tolle, in that video, was a pot calling the kettles black. Tolle doesn't know what he is teaching also;and yet, he has made $70 million speaking to idiots. Russell is another new-age number.
Certainly, if this is your opinion of him, then pay him no mind. I never do but you guys keep bringing him up like the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2022 18:17:56 GMT -5
Certainly, if this is your opinion of him, then pay him no mind. I'm not sure what to make of his comment. Trolling? Oblivious? Let's give sree the benefit of the doubt here on the trolling. His negative perception of Tolle's wealth is a common one among people with spiritual interests, and if sree sincerely believes that the world could and should be a better place (which I have a suspicion that he does), then I can imagine how he might see ET's perspective to be one that would encourage a dangerous complacency. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2022 18:29:10 GMT -5
Well, he compliments Russell on his challenging of 'insane people' (he even used the word 'monsters'), he talked of what 'politicians and media are doing', he spoke of the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, biological warfare, he speaks of 'interest groups that manipulate events', there's an acknowledgement of a 'Great Reset'..... it's all very political, and it's condemnation its own way. But as you say, it's condemnation of their 'stupidity' rather than their 'evil nature'. My view is that the powerful people/groups in the world do conspire together to protect and consolidate their interests, and I don't consider that a 'theory', because I see a ton of evidence of that. The only question for me is how MUCH they conspire i.e to what extent they act opportunistically, and to what extent these events are planned. I agree with Tolle that these people are devoid of wisdom, but they are intellectually smart in some cases. I think all events are planned except that there are no planners. The planning is a movement predetermined by conditions set up by previous conditions. Ted Kaczynski (unabomber) went to great lengths to warn us of the path we are going down. Even a watered down version of his "manifesto" in Wikipedia would tell you that your view of the world is not unreasonable.
How new are your computer and handphone? They are now our primary tools to live by. The SVP is a psychological entity that is hooked up to technology. Our pace of life continues to move faster with every upgrade and advancement of pace of living.
What you write here reminds me of ourborous descriptions of the Buddhist "dependent origination". It's a far saner view of the world than one of the endless horde of evil SVP's constantly fouling the Universe. But still, the question of causation, generally, in a fascinating existential opportunity. The truth is transcendent of plan, or unplanned. Neither are ultimately true. "Plan without a planner" is certainly further along than the conventional view, but isn't even halfway there to the real answer, as the distance is infinite. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2022 18:33:36 GMT -5
I think all events are planned except that there are no planners. The planning is a movement predetermined by conditions set up by previous conditions. Ted Kaczynski (unabomber) went to great lengths to warn us of the path we are going down. Even a watered down version of his "manifesto" in Wikipedia would tell you that your view of the world is not unreasonable.
How new are your computer and handphone? They are now our primary tools to live by. The SVP is a psychological entity that is hooked up to technology. Our pace of life continues to move faster with every upgrade and advancement of pace of living.
Yes, this is the 'everything moves as one' position. The 'choiceless' position. I broadly agree with it, though I would say that where there is planning, there are planners. That doesn't mean that they have a 'choice' about what they plan. This is a theme that was discussed over thousands and thousands of pages a few years ago. You would probably have enjoyed the forum at the time, it was very dynamic. In one way, I see the very worst people (the Ted Bundy's of the world) as being like vortices or conduits of evil. They draw in the negative shadow of the world, and then express it in grotesque ways. But it can be argued that they too are acting in service by transmuting the broader evil of the world. That doesn't make their actions 'right'....anything of that sort is deeply wrong, but it doesn't mean that I believe they should burn in hell for it. "Everything moves as one" has the potential to be a pointer, but the first relation we make of that to relative events transforms the meaning into something else, that isn't a pointer. |
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Post by sree on Nov 27, 2022 18:35:49 GMT -5
Chinese thought (philosophical tradition of the scholars) is concerned with social harmony. Western academia labeled this thought form as Confucianism. It is based on the concept of the cultivation of the perfect person, the man, at the center of the family; and the nuclear family comprising father (man), mother (woman), and children as the fundamental unit of the society (nation).
Islam is regarded in the west as a political movement governing society. I have no knowledge of the tenets of Islam. Perhaps, a Muslim or a knowledgeable member can say something about this.
I've read that the direct English translation of "Islam" is "submission". Gotta be careful, Laffy. We are the Great Satan to Islam. Our perception of Islam can't be good.
But I have spent time among Muslims, not in the Middle East but in Asia: Indonesia and Malaysia.
One time, I was invited into a mosque in Pusan, South Korea. I sat among the faithfuls on the floor, bowing when they do, head touching the floor, all that stuff. The Koreans practice Islam no different from the way we practice Christianity. It's just a religion to them. No fuss. Not so, in Malaysia where as a non-Muslim, I was not allowed inside the mosque proper where prayers are held.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2022 18:36:09 GMT -5
I'm not sure what to make of his comment. Trolling? Oblivious? Let's give sree the benefit of the doubt here on the trolling. His negative perception of Tolle's wealth is a common one among people with spiritual interests, and if sree sincerely believes that the world could and should be a better place (which I have a suspicion that he does), then I can imagine how he might see ET's perspective to be one that would encourage a dangerous complacency. Okay, true. And I can see that "spiritual teachers" are pretty absurd from a certain point of view. I've taken some shots, especially when they give themselves fancy names, like Mr. Ulrich Tölle. AdyaBobbie |
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2022 18:37:15 GMT -5
Saw that. It made me chuckle. My impression of the imp was that he was thinking " whoa! I warned them about this in New Earth! Holy Shit!  " ..  .. I'm pretty sure he wasn't taking a side, but rather, just commenting on the madness being expressed by the extremity of the opposing sides. haha yeah I had that thought about 'New Earth' too. He doesn't have a smug or self-righteous bone in his body, but I allowed myself to feel it for him just a touch I don't remember much from that book. Only read it once. Was a major disappointment and let down for me relative to Now, at the time. But I remember enough that we should christen him with a middle name: E. N.T. .. (bet you know what the "N" stands for but please don't feel shy to ask me if it isn't obvious and you find it obscure ... 
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2022 18:42:59 GMT -5
It looks like you are asking as a joke, but I thought about it. Wasn't it fundamentally driven by Christian ethics i.e a belief in God and the bible, the American constitution, traditional Christian morality (good vs evil), conservative values and structures e.g nuclear family, protestant work ethic, the right to bear arms etc. I just used search engine....yeah, it looks like I'm on the right lines. And at the opposite end of the spectrum, we have the atheist/humanist/materialist movement that underpins transhumanism (the merging of the biological with the digital). Your good-sense reply reminds that last evening a relative said " how can they be against immigrants; we're all immigrants". As Tolle pointed in his Brand video (by the way, I don't follow Tolle, and I don't subscribe to his spiritual views; nor Brand's for that matter), apparently intelligent people don't see things wisely, they are unconsciously misled (hypnotized) by their sources or information. In the discussion about immigration, the "opposers" object to illegal and chaotic immigration, because it is a threat to country's security, and citizens' welfare. But, in many cases, you can't "open" others' minds. They could do that only themselves. One of the most transparent sort of media psyops is false guilt by association. Just because it's true that most anti-immigrants are MAGA doesn't mean that every MAGA hates all immigrants, and just because likely every drag queen giving a story hour to pre-teens has progressive politics means that all child-trafficker's are Democrats. It's actually pretty interesting to apply this to false flags, and how today's false flag can lead to tomorrow's unconscious extremism. But none of this is all that spiritual. Not directly anyway, only tangentially as it relates to human nature and mind. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 27, 2022 18:50:33 GMT -5
Maybe you draw the boundary of your circle a lot smaller than me (but I do know people that were abused as children) We can say that it's all God, it's all Divine, it's all Love. I get what is meant by 'perfection'. I understand the relative aspect of 'right and wrong'. And yet I would say that 'deeply wrong' can still exist in conjunction with all that. Being present in the moment includes 'deeply wrong', and there are contextual limits as to how far we can assassinate 'wrongness'. In the world we are living in today, there's really no avoiding taking political positions to some extent, because it's a politicized world. That's just the way it is right now. You've taken one here...a strong one. I think that this applies to this discussion:  Well, you see, what farmer wrote about not wanting anything to be other than what it is doesn't preclude one from working so that it doesn't necessarily have to stay that way.  It's a subjective commentary. A description of non-reactivity to appearances that doesn't suggest inaction. And yes. This makes no logical sense. |
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.. so I'd say that Tolle doesn't entirely discount the notion that there are nefarious top-down agenda's, but rather, he puts them into an existential context.
" .. 
.. I'm pretty sure he wasn't taking a side, but rather, just commenting on the madness being expressed by the extremity of the opposing sides.
It's a subjective commentary. A description of non-reactivity to appearances that doesn't suggest inaction. And yes. This makes no logical sense.