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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 13, 2024 14:12:52 GMT -5
I have a preference for reading stuff which aligns with truth. Agree last paragraph. "Truth" is a interesting word  And often given some kind of mystical meaning.. Not sure who 'aligns' with it though... whatever the truth of some matter it doesn't need anyone's input, per se Of course not. It is we who need to be aligned with it, actuality. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 13, 2024 14:15:04 GMT -5
But the whole point is, who is this you? This you is the part of your multidimensional personality focused into the physical reality, the not-sleeping you. In the "school" analogy, it is the student, the kid in school. In the "virtual-reality game", it is the avatar, the player immersed into the game reality. Immersed is a good word, disappeared in-to. |
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Post by tenka on Jan 13, 2024 14:47:39 GMT -5
What you are that is individuated is choosing and doing. That which isn't separated from what you are. Butt if there is a belief that the individual is a SVP and is in someway illusory then one is never going to believe that they are doing and choosing. Individuals don't exist. You and I are just viewpoints. So, we can't choose separately. The movement is highly integrated. That's what you believe to be true. It's what you believe based upon what you associate the meaning with and too. It is a belief. Your beliefs differ from mine and that's okay. They differ because you don't have the same understandings. Why is that would you say? |
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Post by tenka on Jan 13, 2024 14:55:46 GMT -5
What you are that is individuated is choosing and doing. That which isn't separated from what you are. Butt if there is a belief that the individual is a SVP and is in someway illusory then one is never going to believe that they are doing and choosing. Yes, perfectly correct. Bingo. This is the crucial point, the fulcrum. The ST-TR claim that seeing there is no one doing the choosing, or the doing, that everything that happens is just the whole moving flow, that's the whole ball of wax. And then they also say that anyone who HASN'T seen that isn't even at square one. I'm kind of in the middle, sdp says, correct, there is no choosing, no doing, the beginning is to see there isn't a self doing anything. But for sdp that's merely the starting point. The beginning of real doing is seeing that you can't do. The SR-TR consider that the end of the journey. I can't place tenka, or inavalan, because I can only know my own consciousness (a significant point Federico Fa ggin makes. I think this is also the point Gopal makes, but then this makes GM call Gopal a solipsist). But I know I'm correct, my path is self-validating. For sdp the beginning of real individuation, individual doing, is just becoming a point of observing, I know I can observe. I take-back-my-attention, by placing it where sdp chooses. That's the beginning. The SR-TR continue to say, "my" attention continues to go wherever it goes. Even ZD who contrived ATA-T will not say he ~does~ ATA-T, he just says it's the Whole doing ATA-T in the individuation ZD. So here is where sdp and (conceptual)-ND part company. ND ~promotes~, just accept/be-in-the-flow. sdp says, observe and thus ~be your [True] Self~ while in the flow. There's a universe of difference. If realisations are non conceptual / beyond mind, then there can only be beliefs at play. Beliefs that are for some incorporated within the understanding of experience. Some beliefs are merely notions that have no foundation other than an idea they have. My questions for those that proclaim this and that about their realisations that reflect how life actually is, and what the person actually reflects is the whole ball of wax that you refer too. I am trying as some peeps know bring to the fore a process of how the mind works in reflection of our conceptual beliefs. You not being able to place inavalan or myself is the beauty of individuation. If you question those that say you are at square one for not realising the whole moving flow, then you should say you haven't seen the individuated moving flow that isn't separated from the the whole moving flow  |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 13, 2024 15:51:45 GMT -5
Yes, perfectly correct. Bingo. This is the crucial point, the fulcrum. The ST-TR claim that seeing there is no one doing the choosing, or the doing, that everything that happens is just the whole moving flow, that's the whole ball of wax. And then they also say that anyone who HASN'T seen that isn't even at square one. I'm kind of in the middle, sdp says, correct, there is no choosing, no doing, the beginning is to see there isn't a self doing anything. But for sdp that's merely the starting point. The beginning of real doing is seeing that you can't do. The SR-TR consider that the end of the journey. I can't place tenka, or inavalan, because I can only know my own consciousness (a significant point Federico Fa ggin makes. I think this is also the point Gopal makes, but then this makes GM call Gopal a solipsist). But I know I'm correct, my path is self-validating. For sdp the beginning of real individuation, individual doing, is just becoming a point of observing, I know I can observe. I take-back-my-attention, by placing it where sdp chooses. That's the beginning. The SR-TR continue to say, "my" attention continues to go wherever it goes. Even ZD who contrived ATA-T will not say he ~does~ ATA-T, he just says it's the Whole doing ATA-T in the individuation ZD. So here is where sdp and (conceptual)-ND part company. ND ~promotes~, just accept/be-in-the-flow. sdp says, observe and thus ~be your [True] Self~ while in the flow. There's a universe of difference. Beliefs that are for some incorporated within the understanding of experience. Some beliefs are merely notions that have no foundation other than an idea they have. My questions for those that proclaim this and that about their realisations that reflect how life actually is, and what the person actually reflects is the whole ball of wax that you refer too. I am trying as some peeps know bring to the fore a process of how the mind works in reflection of our conceptual beliefs. You not being able to place inavalan or myself is the beauty of individuation. If you question those that say you are at square one for not realising the whole moving flow, then you should say you haven't seen the individuated moving flow that isn't separated from the the whole moving flow Tenka, non conceptual and beyond mind are the very opposite of belief. Do you believe that 2 + 2 = 4? You can't use the word belief in that context, unless, you are like 5. I'm just trying to bring 2 different sides together, get everybody on the same page. |
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Post by tenka on Jan 13, 2024 16:02:00 GMT -5
If realisations are non conceptual / beyond mind, then there can only be beliefs at play. Beliefs that are for some incorporated within the understanding of experience. Some beliefs are merely notions that have no foundation other than an idea they have. My questions for those that proclaim this and that about their realisations that reflect how life actually is, and what the person actually reflects is the whole ball of wax that you refer too. I am trying as some peeps know bring to the fore a process of how the mind works in reflection of our conceptual beliefs. You not being able to place inavalan or myself is the beauty of individuation. If you question those that say you are at square one for not realising the whole moving flow, then you should say you haven't seen the individuated moving flow that isn't separated from the the whole moving flow Tenka, non conceptual and beyond mind are the very opposite of belief. Do you believe that 2 + 2 = 4? You can't use the word belief in that context, unless, you are like 5. I'm just trying to bring 2 different sides together, get everybody on the same page. I agree to what you have bolded that is why I have said what I have. Beliefs can only be at play when the non conceptual realisations contain a belief in what is the case, whether it is in reflection of a dream world or a SVP. There can only be beliefs at play that reflect what is made sense of regarding conceptual terminoligies. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 13, 2024 16:22:56 GMT -5
Tenka, non conceptual and beyond mind are the very opposite of belief. Do you believe that 2 + 2 = 4? You can't use the word belief in that context, unless, you are like 5. I'm just trying to bring 2 different sides together, get everybody on the same page. I agree to what you have bolded that is why I have said what I have. Beliefs can only be at play when the non conceptual realisations contain a belief in what is the case, whether it is in reflection of a dream world or a SVP. There can only be beliefs at play that reflect what is made sense of regarding conceptual terminoligies. Tenka, non conceptual realizations cannot contain a belief, period. Period. In ND language, that does not compute. In ND realization, that does not compute. I am not shy in saying, I don't speak Realization, I still don't know what a ND Realization is, except as a very simple truth, that's why call it a little bump in the road. If sdp ever has an earthshattering Realization, I will race to the computer to tell everybody. |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 13, 2024 18:41:53 GMT -5
Individuals don't exist. You and I are just viewpoints. So, we can't choose separately. The movement is highly integrated. That's what you believe to be true. It's what you believe based upon what you associate the meaning with and too. It is a belief. Your beliefs differ from mine and that's okay. They differ because you don't have the same understandings. Why is that would you say? I don't believe that, I have directly noticed the integrated movement. No one can act independently from the rest of the universe. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 13, 2024 22:23:24 GMT -5
That's what you believe to be true. It's what you believe based upon what you associate the meaning with and too. It is a belief. Your beliefs differ from mine and that's okay. They differ because you don't have the same understandings. Why is that would you say? I don't believe that, I have directly noticed the integrated movement. No one can act independently from the rest of the universe. Gopal, nobody is talking about acting independently. But why would there be uniqueness, without the ability to express that uniqueness? An Einstein was in the perfect place to ~see~ Special Relativity and then ten years later General Relativity. Uniqueness also = creativity. |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 14, 2024 0:27:37 GMT -5
I don't believe that, I have directly noticed the integrated movement. No one can act independently from the rest of the universe. Gopal, nobody is talking about acting independently. But why would there be uniqueness, without the ability to express that uniqueness? An Einstein was in the perfect place to ~see~ Special Relativity and then ten years later General Relativity. Uniqueness also = creativity. That's the nature of the viewpoint of God. You are the only one who exists, and everybody else is just another viewpoint of you (if they exist). All I know for sure is that there is an integrated movement, and I strongly believe that since we are all one consciousness, this integrated movement is possible. Or there should be another higher spirit that connects all our individuated spirits. And this higher spirit is orchestrating, but this model is having a problem. The problem is that when clarity is dawned, it only responds to the situation with change. So, it looks like Infinite itself is experiencing. So, there is no higher spirit; spirit is one, and it is experiencing from all the viewpoints. |
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Post by tenka on Jan 14, 2024 6:00:26 GMT -5
I agree to what you have bolded that is why I have said what I have. Beliefs can only be at play when the non conceptual realisations contain a belief in what is the case, whether it is in reflection of a dream world or a SVP. There can only be beliefs at play that reflect what is made sense of regarding conceptual terminoligies. Tenka, non conceptual realizations cannot contain a belief, period. Period. In ND language, that does not compute. In ND realization, that does not compute. I am not shy in saying, I don't speak Realization, I still don't know what a ND Realization is, except as a very simple truth, that's why call it a little bump in the road. If sdp ever has an earthshattering Realization, I will race to the computer to tell everybody. So after many years on a ND Forum you still can't work out what folks are saying? Maybe they need to explain it again in SDP Terms & Conditions |
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Post by tenka on Jan 14, 2024 6:38:37 GMT -5
That's what you believe to be true. It's what you believe based upon what you associate the meaning with and too. It is a belief. Your beliefs differ from mine and that's okay. They differ because you don't have the same understandings. Why is that would you say? I don't believe that, I have directly noticed the integrated movement. No one can act independently from the rest of the universe. Like the Pilgrim said, it's not about independence in the grand scheme of things where it reflects separation. You have your own set of beliefs in regards to what you believe an individual is in reflection of what the universe is etc. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 14, 2024 9:14:54 GMT -5
Gopal, nobody is talking about acting independently. But why would there be uniqueness, without the ability to express that uniqueness? An Einstein was in the perfect place to ~see~ Special Relativity and then ten years later General Relativity. Uniqueness also = creativity. That's the nature of the viewpoint of God. You are the only one who exists, and everybody else is just another viewpoint of you (if they exist). All I know for sure is that there is an integrated movement, and I strongly believe that since we are all one consciousness, this integrated movement is possible. Or there should be another higher spirit that connects all our individuated spirits. And this higher spirit is orchestrating, but this model is having a problem. The problem is that when clarity is dawned, it only responds to the situation with change. So, it looks like Infinite itself is experiencing. So, there is no higher spirit; spirit is one, and it is experiencing from all the viewpoints. Thanks Gopal. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 14, 2024 9:25:39 GMT -5
Tenka, non conceptual realizations cannot contain a belief, period. Period. In ND language, that does not compute. In ND realization, that does not compute. I am not shy in saying, I don't speak Realization, I still don't know what a ND Realization is, except as a very simple truth, that's why call it a little bump in the road. If sdp ever has an earthshattering Realization, I will race to the computer to tell everybody. So after many years on a ND Forum you still can't work out what folks are saying? Maybe they need to explain it again in SDP Terms & Conditions I honestly don't know if this is a serious response or not. |
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Post by tenka on Jan 14, 2024 14:14:26 GMT -5
So after many years on a ND Forum you still can't work out what folks are saying? Maybe they need to explain it again in SDP Terms & Conditions I honestly don't know if this is a serious response or not. It is a serious response with a touch of humour. Why is it that after so long interacting with N.D. peeps who speak about S.R. often don't you know what they are talking about regarding realisation? Don't get me wrong, I don't put blame at your door, I am still having the same conversations too, in order to get to the bottom of what certain peeps say. |
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And often given some kind of mystical meaning..
