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Post by inavalan on Jan 7, 2024 15:41:28 GMT -5
I don't ask my subconscious to get out of the way; I work with my subconscious!"Arise", "points", ... are euphemisms that try to hide a lack of a clear hypothesis. Repeatedly using them, eventually people suggestion themselves that they know and understand more than they actually do. Thinking doesn't "arise" from subconscious. Intuition doesn't "arise" from subconscious. The fox and henhouse analogy is out of context too. As I said: you don't understand what I'm talking about, and jump to incorrect conclusions. But it's okay. We all here, in this reality, are work in progress that malfunctions to some degree. I understand that you are aware of a filter of distortion, but was there a series of events that lead to a leap of faith in your subconscious? an interesting question, although your follow up question doesn't apply. It isn't a matter of faith. I-here-awake is the part of my personality that deals with the physical (outer) world as created by my subconscious, based on its connections to the wider reality. My personality's existence has only the purpose of contributing to my entity's evolvement, in a similar way to going to school to learn: the student-at-school is the I-here-awake. The personality is the kid that is enrolled in school, with his life including his being outside school. This personality is one of the stages my entity goes through to evolve, so it is the person who is a kid in this grade. The entity goes through many grades to graduate a school (like this physical reality framework). My subconscious ensures my I-here-awake interface with the school environment, and also with the rest of my personality (the kid, as a stage of my entity). My subconscious knows better what I am, as it holds all my memories, and it is the one which accumulates the experience I get in school. If we zoom into the model, actually the I-here-awake is only the pupil being in a lab, the more practical part of the learning process, not in class taking courses. The subconscious has access to the inner senses, and focuses me on the physical reality through my physical senses, creating a reference through my physical sense organs. A finger doesn't have faith in the arm. A student doesn't have faith in going to school. Those are elements of gestalts that are elements of other gestalts. In a gestalt, each element has its properties, but the gestalt's properties aren't the sum of the properties of its elements. In this model of reality, the identities behind elements dynamically join the gestalts that resonate best with their current level of evolvement, and with their needs for value fulfillment, and as those needs and level change, those identities leave and join other gestalts, accordingly. At my I-here-awake level I just know that I exist. Everything else I know about me and the rest is by accessing memories, which are part of my subconscious, and I don't know how that information got there, how "accurate" it is. It isn't that I trust my subconscious. I am only what my subconscious shows me to be. There is no other perception that I-here-awake has than whatever I read from my subconscious' memory. Everything is in a "past", stored. What I see isn't what I see in this very moment, but what I recall seeing a moment ago. There is no "living in the moment". The present becomes past before I am aware of it. Important here is that I don't have any way to know the "accuracy" and "stability" of the information in that memory, and I can't do anything about this. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 8, 2024 17:00:23 GMT -5
Why do you trust your subconscious? I understand that you are aware of a filter of distortion, but was there a series of events that lead to a leap of faith in your subconscious? an interesting question, although your follow up question doesn't apply. It isn't a matter of faith. I-here-awake is the part of my personality that deals with the physical (outer) world as created by my subconscious, based on its connections to the wider reality. My personality's existence has only the purpose of contributing to my entity's evolvement, in a similar way to going to school to learn: the student-at-school is the I-here-awake. The personality is the kid that is enrolled in school, with his life including his being outside school. This personality is one of the stages my entity goes through to evolve, so it is the person who is a kid in this grade. The entity goes through many grades to graduate a school (like this physical reality framework). My subconscious ensures my I-here-awake interface with the school environment, and also with the rest of my personality (the kid, as a stage of my entity). My subconscious knows better what I am, as it holds all my memories, and it is the one which accumulates the experience I get in school. If we zoom into the model, actually the I-here-awake is only the pupil being in a lab, the more practical part of the learning process, not in class taking courses. The subconscious has access to the inner senses, and focuses me on the physical reality through my physical senses, creating a reference through my physical sense organs. A finger doesn't have faith in the arm. A student doesn't have faith in going to school. Those are elements of gestalts that are elements of other gestalts. In a gestalt, each element has its properties, but the gestalt's properties aren't the sum of the properties of its elements. In this model of reality, the identities behind elements dynamically join the gestalts that resonate best with their current level of evolvement, and with their needs for value fulfillment, and as those needs and level change, those identities leave and join other gestalts, accordingly. At my I-here-awake level I just know that I exist. Everything else I know about me and the rest is by accessing memories, which are part of my subconscious, and I don't know how that information got there, how "accurate" it is. It isn't that I trust my subconscious. I am only what my subconscious shows me to be. There is no other perception that I-here-awake has than whatever I read from my subconscious' memory. Everything is in a "past", stored. What I see isn't what I see in this very moment, but what I recall seeing a moment ago. There is no "living in the moment". The present becomes past before I am aware of it. Important here is that I don't have any way to know the "accuracy" and "stability" of the information in that memory, and I can't do anything about this. Thanks for explaining. That's a lot of interesting knowledge that you have learned, and I think I'm assuming correctly, that a lot of it came from your subconscious...? I don't think I quite understand yet WHY you trust that knowledge? I mean, why trust it over what someone says in a book, or someone tells you in person? What's your fundamental reason for trusting that knowledge? Does it 'feel' true? Do you like the results that it gives you? |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 8, 2024 19:08:52 GMT -5
That's an interesting question, although your follow up question doesn't apply. It isn't a matter of faith. I-here-awake is the part of my personality that deals with the physical (outer) world as created by my subconscious, based on its connections to the wider reality. My personality's existence has only the purpose of contributing to my entity's evolvement, in a similar way to going to school to learn: the student-at-school is the I-here-awake. The personality is the kid that is enrolled in school, with his life including his being outside school. This personality is one of the stages my entity goes through to evolve, so it is the person who is a kid in this grade. The entity goes through many grades to graduate a school (like this physical reality framework). My subconscious ensures my I-here-awake interface with the school environment, and also with the rest of my personality (the kid, as a stage of my entity). My subconscious knows better what I am, as it holds all my memories, and it is the one which accumulates the experience I get in school. If we zoom into the model, actually the I-here-awake is only the pupil being in a lab, the more practical part of the learning process, not in class taking courses. The subconscious has access to the inner senses, and focuses me on the physical reality through my physical senses, creating a reference through my physical sense organs. A finger doesn't have faith in the arm. A student doesn't have faith in going to school. Those are elements of gestalts that are elements of other gestalts. In a gestalt, each element has its properties, but the gestalt's properties aren't the sum of the properties of its elements. In this model of reality, the identities behind elements dynamically join the gestalts that resonate best with their current level of evolvement, and with their needs for value fulfillment, and as those needs and level change, those identities leave and join other gestalts, accordingly. At my I-here-awake level I just know that I exist. Everything else I know about me and the rest is by accessing memories, which are part of my subconscious, and I don't know how that information got there, how "accurate" it is. It isn't that I trust my subconscious. I am only what my subconscious shows me to be. There is no other perception that I-here-awake has than whatever I read from my subconscious' memory. Everything is in a "past", stored. What I see isn't what I see in this very moment, but what I recall seeing a moment ago. There is no "living in the moment". The present becomes past before I am aware of it. Important here is that I don't have any way to know the "accuracy" and "stability" of the information in that memory, and I can't do anything about this. Thanks for explaining. That's a lot of interesting knowledge that you have learned, and I think I'm assuming correctly, that a lot of it came from your subconscious...? I don't think I quite understand yet WHY you trust that knowledge? I mean, why trust it over what someone says in a book, or someone tells you in person? What's your fundamental reason for trusting that knowledge? Does it 'feel' true? Do you like the results that it gives you? Everything comes through my subconscious, including everything I perceive through my physical senses (reading, hearing, seeing, ...), everything I recall, everything I know. Whatever I know about what I am and what I experience / experienced is based only by accessing, through my subconscious, various specialized banks of memory, as directed / allowed by my subconscious. Surely, the model I work with is actually stored in this memory. The "I" can only make choices based on what it gets from memory, according to criteria read from memory. I can't even evaluate the quality of my choices as I read the results and consequences from this memory. The content of this memory is under the control of my personality, my entity, my inner guidance, my subconscious. Feelings are read from memory too. My feeling about my understanding of reality is that I am on a path, I progress / progressed, I see clearer and clearer, interpret better and better, with some degree of confidence, that there are still many things I get wrong, not knowing which. I have no choice to trust or not to trust it; I just exist and choose. I can't say that I like or not, as I don't think in those terms. My reason of existing, and purpose of being offered choices is for the evolvement of my entity, that is evolving though my personality (the grade in the physical reality school). Surely, all this is what I read from my memory, and I have no way to know how "true" it is, but I guess / believe that the feedback I read through my subconscious is constructive for the higher purposes (e.g. of my entity). Probably this reply isn't much clearer to you. You too, can iteratively find your path tapping your inner guidance, while leaving aside all your beliefs and expectations. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 8, 2024 19:32:59 GMT -5
Thanks for explaining. That's a lot of interesting knowledge that you have learned, and I think I'm assuming correctly, that a lot of it came from your subconscious...? I don't think I quite understand yet WHY you trust that knowledge? I mean, why trust it over what someone says in a book, or someone tells you in person? What's your fundamental reason for trusting that knowledge? Does it 'feel' true? Do you like the results that it gives you? Everything comes through my subconscious, including everything I perceive through my physical senses (reading, hearing, seeing, ...), everything I recall, everything I know. Whatever I know about what I am and what I experience / experienced is based only by accessing, through my subconscious, various specialized banks of memory, as directed / allowed by my subconscious. Surely, the model I work with is actually stored in this memory. The "I" can only make choices based on what it gets from memory, according to criteria read from memory. I can't even evaluate the quality of my choices as I read the results and consequences from this memory. The content of this memory is under the control of my personality, my entity, my inner guidance, my subconscious. Feelings are read from memory too. My feeling about my understanding of reality is that I am on a path, I progress / progressed, I see clearer and clearer, interpret better and better, with some degree of confidence, that there are still many things I get wrong, not knowing which. I have no choice to trust or not to trust it; I just exist and choose. I can't say that I like or not, as I don't think in those terms. My reason of existing, and purpose of being offered choices is for the evolvement of my entity, that is evolving though my personality (the grade in the physical reality school). Surely, all this is what I read from my memory, and I have no way to know how "true" it is, but I guess / believe that the feedback I read through my subconscious is constructive for the higher purposes (e.g. of my entity). Probably this reply isn't much clearer to you. You too, can iteratively find your path tapping your inner guidance, while leaving aside all your beliefs and expectations. yeah I appreciate your efforts there but perhaps I'm not asking my question right. I guess you could agree that most....maybe all....of what you said there, are your beliefs? I'm reading through it saying....belief, belief, belief, belief...... And you are expressing your set of beliefs well to me. But why do you trust your belief system? I know most of your beliefs are a result of internal enquiry and inner guidance, but why do you trust them? From my perspective, it seems like it makes sense that you would trust them, if you like the experience of the results you get from trusting them. But I'm guessing there. Or that it all makes sense to you, and you like the felt experience of it making sense...e.g perhaps it brings you a sense of stability to trust them. Again, just guessing. I'm trying to give examples there that might explain what you 'get out of' trusting your inner guidance, as opposed to a book written by the Dalai Lama, for example. |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 8, 2024 20:45:34 GMT -5
Everything comes through my subconscious, including everything I perceive through my physical senses (reading, hearing, seeing, ...), everything I recall, everything I know. Whatever I know about what I am and what I experience / experienced is based only by accessing, through my subconscious, various specialized banks of memory, as directed / allowed by my subconscious. Surely, the model I work with is actually stored in this memory. The "I" can only make choices based on what it gets from memory, according to criteria read from memory. I can't even evaluate the quality of my choices as I read the results and consequences from this memory. The content of this memory is under the control of my personality, my entity, my inner guidance, my subconscious. Feelings are read from memory too. My feeling about my understanding of reality is that I am on a path, I progress / progressed, I see clearer and clearer, interpret better and better, with some degree of confidence, that there are still many things I get wrong, not knowing which. I have no choice to trust or not to trust it; I just exist and choose. I can't say that I like or not, as I don't think in those terms. My reason of existing, and purpose of being offered choices is for the evolvement of my entity, that is evolving though my personality (the grade in the physical reality school). Surely, all this is what I read from my memory, and I have no way to know how "true" it is, but I guess / believe that the feedback I read through my subconscious is constructive for the higher purposes (e.g. of my entity). Probably this reply isn't much clearer to you. You too, can iteratively find your path tapping your inner guidance, while leaving aside all your beliefs and expectations. yeah I appreciate your efforts there but perhaps I'm not asking my question right. I guess you could agree that most....maybe all....of what you said there, are your beliefs? I'm reading through it saying....belief, belief, belief, belief...... And you are expressing your set of beliefs well to me. But why do you trust your belief system? I know most of your beliefs are a result of internal enquiry and inner guidance, but why do you trust them? From my perspective, it seems like it makes sense that you would trust them, if you like the experience of the results you get from trusting them. But I'm guessing there. Or that it all makes sense to you, and you like the felt experience of it making sense...e.g perhaps it brings you a sense of stability to trust them. Again, just guessing. I'm trying to give examples there that might explain what you 'get out of' trusting your inner guidance, as opposed to a book written by the Dalai Lama, for example. If I read a book by Dalai Lama, I only get whatever information filtered by my beliefs. There is no other way to get it. It isn't that I trust my beliefs, but that I see everything through them. Occasionally, there is something, detected through my emotions and following an interpretation, that highlights a limiting belief. In such a case I work with my subconscious to remove / replace that belief. It isn't that I trust my belief system. I have no choice in the matter. My belief system is my reality. The reason I cannot make myself understood is that the model I describe considers my awareness as distinct from my memory banks. So, I, my awareness has no other memory. It just knows that in some way exists, it has inputs and makes choices. The results of those choices are other inputs, which I don't know how they come to be. I don't really know if my choices are right or wrong, only what I'm "told". In the memory I also read hypotheses about what I am, what reality is, what should I do, ... I don't know what /who put that information in that memory. I have no way to know that. I start from the assumption that I am part of something that works this way, and I have no other choice than to do my part: make choices based on the information I access, through my subconscious, from those banks of memory. Even this is the result of what I get from that memory. On a computer board, I am the logic unit with no registers, nor memory, no direct inputs. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 8, 2024 21:09:40 GMT -5
yeah I appreciate your efforts there but perhaps I'm not asking my question right. I guess you could agree that most....maybe all....of what you said there, are your beliefs? I'm reading through it saying....belief, belief, belief, belief...... And you are expressing your set of beliefs well to me. But why do you trust your belief system? I know most of your beliefs are a result of internal enquiry and inner guidance, but why do you trust them? From my perspective, it seems like it makes sense that you would trust them, if you like the experience of the results you get from trusting them. But I'm guessing there. Or that it all makes sense to you, and you like the felt experience of it making sense...e.g perhaps it brings you a sense of stability to trust them. Again, just guessing. I'm trying to give examples there that might explain what you 'get out of' trusting your inner guidance, as opposed to a book written by the Dalai Lama, for example. If I read a book by Dalai Lama, I only get whatever information filtered by my beliefs. There is no other way to get it. It isn't that I trust my beliefs, but that I see everything through them. Occasionally, there is something, detected through my emotions and following an interpretation, that highlights a limiting belief. In such a case I work with my subconscious to remove / replace that belief. It isn't that I trust my belief system. I have no choice in the matter. My belief system is my reality. The reason I cannot make myself understood is that the model I describe considers my awareness as distinct from my memory banks. So, I, my awareness has no other memory. It just knows that in some way exists, it has inputs and makes choices. The results of those choices are other inputs, which I don't know how they come to be. I don't really know if my choices are right or wrong, only what I'm "told". In the memory I also read hypotheses about what I am, what reality is, what should I do, ... I don't know what /who put that information in that memory. I have no way to know that. I start from the assumption that I am part of something that works this way, and I have no other choice than to do my part: make choices based on the information I access, through my subconscious, from those banks of memory. Even this is the result of what I get from that memory. On a computer board, I am the logic unit with no registers, nor memory, no direct inputs.
This is absolutely correct. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 9, 2024 13:52:15 GMT -5
Just wanted to add one thing, to maybe help clarify for tenka. The classic snake-rope. The snake is taken to be real, is not, it is illusory. But the rope IS real. Likewise, in the brain there are neural connections, neural ["self"] circuits. The circuits are actual, they are the *rope*. But in a process we are not aware of, an I is formed from the actual connections, but the I (small s self) is the snake, it is illusory. Again, the connected neural circuits are real, exist, are actual, but the self derived from the circuitry is illusory.
This is not so easy to see. It has catastrophic consequences, or ecstatic consequences.
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Post by andrew on Jan 12, 2024 0:52:34 GMT -5
yeah I appreciate your efforts there but perhaps I'm not asking my question right. I guess you could agree that most....maybe all....of what you said there, are your beliefs? I'm reading through it saying....belief, belief, belief, belief...... And you are expressing your set of beliefs well to me. But why do you trust your belief system? I know most of your beliefs are a result of internal enquiry and inner guidance, but why do you trust them? From my perspective, it seems like it makes sense that you would trust them, if you like the experience of the results you get from trusting them. But I'm guessing there. Or that it all makes sense to you, and you like the felt experience of it making sense...e.g perhaps it brings you a sense of stability to trust them. Again, just guessing. I'm trying to give examples there that might explain what you 'get out of' trusting your inner guidance, as opposed to a book written by the Dalai Lama, for example. If I read a book by Dalai Lama, I only get whatever information filtered by my beliefs. There is no other way to get it. It isn't that I trust my beliefs, but that I see everything through them. Occasionally, there is something, detected through my emotions and following an interpretation, that highlights a limiting belief. In such a case I work with my subconscious to remove / replace that belief. It isn't that I trust my belief system. I have no choice in the matter. My belief system is my reality. The reason I cannot make myself understood is that the model I describe considers my awareness as distinct from my memory banks. So, I, my awareness has no other memory. It just knows that in some way exists, it has inputs and makes choices. The results of those choices are other inputs, which I don't know how they come to be. I don't really know if my choices are right or wrong, only what I'm "told". In the memory I also read hypotheses about what I am, what reality is, what should I do, ... I don't know what /who put that information in that memory. I have no way to know that. I start from the assumption that I am part of something that works this way, and I have no other choice than to do my part: make choices based on the information I access, through my subconscious, from those banks of memory. Even this is the result of what I get from that memory. On a computer board, I am the logic unit with no registers, nor memory, no direct inputs. Thanks for this. I like the way you think. At the time, I wanted to follow this up with more questions, but I don't recall what they are and the moment has gone, so I'll leave it for now. |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 12, 2024 2:40:33 GMT -5
If I read a book by Dalai Lama, I only get whatever information filtered by my beliefs. There is no other way to get it. It isn't that I trust my beliefs, but that I see everything through them. Occasionally, there is something, detected through my emotions and following an interpretation, that highlights a limiting belief. In such a case I work with my subconscious to remove / replace that belief. It isn't that I trust my belief system. I have no choice in the matter. My belief system is my reality. The reason I cannot make myself understood is that the model I describe considers my awareness as distinct from my memory banks. So, I, my awareness has no other memory. It just knows that in some way exists, it has inputs and makes choices. The results of those choices are other inputs, which I don't know how they come to be. I don't really know if my choices are right or wrong, only what I'm "told". In the memory I also read hypotheses about what I am, what reality is, what should I do, ... I don't know what /who put that information in that memory. I have no way to know that. I start from the assumption that I am part of something that works this way, and I have no other choice than to do my part: make choices based on the information I access, through my subconscious, from those banks of memory. Even this is the result of what I get from that memory. On a computer board, I am the logic unit with no registers, nor memory, no direct inputs. Thanks for this. I like the way you think. At the time, I wanted to follow this up with more questions, but I don't recall what they are and the moment has gone, so I'll leave it for now. Maybe you thought about how choices are made ... Instincts, emotions, intellect, intuition ... which are more and more evolved ways of processing / responding to inputs (read from memory banks), establishing physical classes / kingdoms of consciousness gestalts: mineral, vegetal, animal, human. |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 12, 2024 2:42:50 GMT -5
Thanks for this. I like the way you think. At the time, I wanted to follow this up with more questions, but I don't recall what they are and the moment has gone, so I'll leave it for now. Maybe you thought about how choices are made ... Instincts, emotions, intellect, intuition ... which are more and more evolved ways of processing / responding to inputs (read from memory banks), establishing physical classes / kingdoms of consciousness gestalts: mineral, vegetal, animal, human. You are not choosing anything; choosing happens by itself. Just watch it carefully, and you will be free from the delusion of choosing the right choice. |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 12, 2024 16:46:51 GMT -5
Maybe you thought about how choices are made ... Instincts, emotions, intellect, intuition ... which are more and more evolved ways of processing / responding to inputs (read from memory banks), establishing physical classes / kingdoms of consciousness gestalts: mineral, vegetal, animal, human. You are not choosing anything; choosing happens by itself. Just watch it carefully, and you will be free from the delusion of choosing the right choice. If a chick can do it, you can do it!  |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 12, 2024 17:31:48 GMT -5
Maybe you thought about how choices are made ... Instincts, emotions, intellect, intuition ... which are more and more evolved ways of processing / responding to inputs (read from memory banks), establishing physical classes / kingdoms of consciousness gestalts: mineral, vegetal, animal, human. You are not choosing anything; choosing happens by itself. Just watch it carefully, and you will be free from the delusion of choosing the right choice. When our kids were young, we gave them choices, but the choices we gave them were of our choosing. For example, today, do you want to wear the red shirt or the green shirt? So their choices were superfluous, really. Who/what does the choosing? To really answer that Self Inquiry is necessary. |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 13, 2024 1:32:53 GMT -5
You are not choosing anything; choosing happens by itself. Just watch it carefully, and you will be free from the delusion of choosing the right choice. If a chick can do it, you can do it! I am trying to free you, but you are not ready. Once the illusion is seen, you are free to make responsible choices. |
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Post by Gopal on Jan 13, 2024 1:35:23 GMT -5
You are not choosing anything; choosing happens by itself. Just watch it carefully, and you will be free from the delusion of choosing the right choice. When our kids were young, we gave them choices, but the choices we gave them were of our choosing. For example, today, do you want to wear the red shirt or the green shirt? So their choices were superfluous, really. Who/what does the choosing? To really answer that Self Inquiry is necessary. Yes, that's the point. Our consciousness is already occupied by our present-moment perceptions/thoughts. When you make a choice, the thought has already landed. You can't choose between thoughts because that's the train of thoughts you are experiencing, one after another. |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 13, 2024 2:16:32 GMT -5
When our kids were young, we gave them choices, but the choices we gave them were of our choosing. For example, today, do you want to wear the red shirt or the green shirt? So their choices were superfluous, really. Who/what does the choosing? To really answer that Self Inquiry is necessary. Yes, that's the point. Our consciousness is already occupied by our present-moment perceptions/thoughts. When you make a choice, the thought has already landed. You can't choose between thoughts because that's the train of thoughts you are experiencing, one after another. You don't choose between thoughts, you chose responses to your physical and non-physical perceptions. You read the perceptions from your memory banks you can access according to your current state / trance, beliefs, level of evolvement. You respond instinctually, emotionally, intellectually, intuitively, according to your current state / trance, beliefs, level of evolvement. |
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