|
|
Post by inavalan on Jan 13, 2024 2:17:59 GMT -5
If a chick can do it, you can do it!  I am trying to free you, but you are not ready. Once the illusion is seen, you are free to make responsible choices. Thanks for the intention, but don't worry about me. |
|
|
|
Post by Gopal on Jan 13, 2024 2:46:53 GMT -5
Yes, that's the point. Our consciousness is already occupied by our present-moment perceptions/thoughts. When you make a choice, the thought has already landed. You can't choose between thoughts because that's the train of thoughts you are experiencing, one after another. You don't choose between thoughts, you chose responses to your physical and non-physical perceptions. You read the perceptions from your memory banks you can access according to your current state / trance, beliefs, level of evolvement. You respond instinctually, emotionally, intellectually, intuitively, according to your current state / trance, beliefs, level of evolvement. I have been trying to make you understand this simple logic for a long time, but you are not paying much attention. Sometimes, the universe is not ready from a certain point of view, so it has to wait for its turn. Good luck! |
|
|
|
Post by Gopal on Jan 13, 2024 2:47:14 GMT -5
I am trying to free you, but you are not ready. Once the illusion is seen, you are free to make responsible choices. Thanks for the intention, but don't worry about me. Sure. I am not worrying about you. |
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Jan 13, 2024 3:51:14 GMT -5
If a chick can do it, you can do it! I am trying to free you, but you are not ready. Once the illusion is seen, you are free to make responsible choices. How can you 'free' a figment of your imagination? And how can a figment of your imagination 'make responsible choices'? |
|
|
|
Post by inavalan on Jan 13, 2024 4:11:42 GMT -5
I am trying to free you, but you are not ready. Once the illusion is seen, you are free to make responsible choices. How can you 'free' a figment of your imagination? And how can a figment of your imagination 'make responsible choices'? Being lonely makes you play with a fragment of yourself, while using your imagination? |
|
|
|
Post by Gopal on Jan 13, 2024 4:20:22 GMT -5
I am trying to free you, but you are not ready. Once the illusion is seen, you are free to make responsible choices. How can you 'free' a figment of your imagination? And how can a figment of your imagination 'make responsible choices'? I was wrong with my english statement. I meant to say You are free from making responsible choices. As for as the figment is concerns, Figment doesn't exist. |
|
|
|
Post by Gopal on Jan 13, 2024 4:22:30 GMT -5
How can you 'free' a figment of your imagination? And how can a figment of your imagination 'make responsible choices'? Being lonely makes you play with a fragment of yourself, while using your imagination? I made an English mistake there. I meant to say you can be free from making responsible choices. what? Look at your awareness and how thoughts pop up in your awareness, and you can tell that none of those thoughts are caused by you. |
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 13, 2024 6:20:19 GMT -5
Yes, that's the point. Our consciousness is already occupied by our present-moment perceptions/thoughts. When you make a choice, the thought has already landed. You can't choose between thoughts because that's the train of thoughts you are experiencing, one after another. don't choose between thoughts, you chose responses to your physical and non-physical perceptions. You read the perceptions from your memory banks you can access according to your current state / trance, beliefs, level of evolvement. You respond instinctually, emotionally, intellectually, intuitively, according to your current state / trance, beliefs, level of evolvement. But the whole point is, who is this you? |
|
|
|
Post by Reefs on Jan 13, 2024 6:26:21 GMT -5
How can you 'free' a figment of your imagination? And how can a figment of your imagination 'make responsible choices'? Being lonely makes you play with a fragment of yourself, while using your imagination? I was referring to Gopal's realization. He believes (or has 'realized' has he claims) that he cannot know if there are other perceivers. And in case there actually are other perceivers, they cannot know either. Which makes for awkward conversations with those 'others', of course, because potentially, he's always just talking to the figments of his own imagination, but he'll never know for sure. He can only assume. What a way to live!  Now, seen from the SVP perspective, however, and taking a purely logical approach, Gopal nevertheless has reached the correct conclusion. From the SR perspective though, it's the wrong conclusion, because you cannot have realized Self and then be in doubt about Self (appearing as 'others'). But then again, Gopal has no claim to SR (as opposed to some others who believe the same), so in that sense he's reached a final conclusion, even though, in actuality, it is the wrong conclusion. So at best, this is just a provisional truth, that will have to be discarded later. SR will blow that apart. But that kind predicament just comes with the territory. A purely intellectual approach will forever leave you in doubt about your answers and conclusions to existential questions. That's why mental kungfu cannot give you peace of mind. |
|
|
|
Post by tenka on Jan 13, 2024 9:11:41 GMT -5
You are not choosing anything; choosing happens by itself. Just watch it carefully, and you will be free from the delusion of choosing the right choice. When our kids were young, we gave them choices, but the choices we gave them were of our choosing. For example, today, do you want to wear the red shirt or the green shirt? So their choices were superfluous, really. Who/what does the choosing? To really answer that Self Inquiry is necessary. What you are that is individuated is choosing and doing. That which isn't separated from what you are. Butt if there is a belief that the individual is a SVP and is in someway illusory then one is never going to believe that they are doing and choosing. |
|
|
|
Post by Gopal on Jan 13, 2024 9:45:50 GMT -5
When our kids were young, we gave them choices, but the choices we gave them were of our choosing. For example, today, do you want to wear the red shirt or the green shirt? So their choices were superfluous, really. Who/what does the choosing? To really answer that Self Inquiry is necessary. What you are that is individuated is choosing and doing. That which isn't separated from what you are. Butt if there is a belief that the individual is a SVP and is in someway illusory then one is never going to believe that they are doing and choosing. Individuals don't exist. You and I are just viewpoints. So, we can't choose separately. The movement is highly integrated. |
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 13, 2024 10:37:50 GMT -5
When our kids were young, we gave them choices, but the choices we gave them were of our choosing. For example, today, do you want to wear the red shirt or the green shirt? So their choices were superfluous, really. Who/what does the choosing? To really answer that Self Inquiry is necessary. What you are that is individuated is choosing and doing. That which isn't separated from what you are. Butt if there is a belief that the individual is a SVP and is in someway illusory then one is never going to believe that they are doing and choosing. Yes, perfectly correct. Bingo. This is the crucial point, the fulcrum. The ST-TR claim that seeing there is no one doing the choosing, or the doing, that everything that happens is just the whole moving flow, that's the whole ball of wax. And then they also say that anyone who HASN'T seen that isn't even at square one. I'm kind of in the middle, sdp says, correct, there is no choosing, no doing, the beginning is to see there isn't a self doing anything. But for sdp that's merely the starting point. The beginning of real doing is seeing that you can't do. The SR-TR consider that the end of the journey. I can't place tenka, or inavalan, because I can only know my own consciousness (a significant point Federico Fa ggin makes. I think this is also the point Gopal makes, but then this makes GM call Gopal a solipsist). But I know I'm correct, my path is self-validating. For sdp the beginning of real individuation, individual doing, is just becoming a point of observing, I know I can observe. I take-back-my-attention, by placing it where sdp chooses. That's the beginning. The SR-TR continue to say, "my" attention continues to go wherever it goes. Even ZD who contrived ATA-T will not say he ~does~ ATA-T, he just says it's the Whole doing ATA-T in the individuation ZD. So here is where sdp and (conceptual)-ND part company. ND ~promotes~, just accept/be-in-the-flow. sdp says, observe and thus ~be your [True] Self~ while in the flow. There's a universe of difference. |
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 13, 2024 10:52:15 GMT -5
What you are that is individuated is choosing and doing. That which isn't separated from what you are. Butt if there is a belief that the individual is a SVP and is in someway illusory then one is never going to believe that they are doing and choosing. Individuals don't exist. You and I are just viewpoints. So, we can't choose separately. The movement is highly integrated. I will insert the crying emoji when I get home.  Gopal had drunk the ND Kool-aid. |
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 13, 2024 12:12:36 GMT -5
I will insert the crying emoji when I get home. Gopal had drunk the ND Kool-aid. So you have a preference for reading things which confirms your thinking and dismiss those which don't? And btw ND is in no way a beliefs driven understanding.. and is not an intellectual undertaking to be solved by the mind. I have a preference for reading stuff which aligns with truth. Agree last paragraph. |
|
|
|
Post by inavalan on Jan 13, 2024 13:06:17 GMT -5
You don't choose between thoughts, you chose responses to your physical and non-physical perceptions. You read the perceptions from your memory banks you can access according to your current state / trance, beliefs, level of evolvement. You respond instinctually, emotionally, intellectually, intuitively, according to your current state / trance, beliefs, level of evolvement. But the whole point is, who is this you? This you is the part of your multidimensional personality focused into the physical reality, the not-sleeping you. In the "school" analogy, it is the student, the kid in school. In the "virtual-reality game", it is the avatar, the player immersed into the game reality. |
|
Gopal had drunk the ND Kool-aid. 