My thoughts and opinions

[dwbh1953]

Jan 30, 2009 10:54:03 GMT -5 serenity said:

Randji
I hope you dont despair at me - but on reading your reply - I'm getting that "warm fuzzy feeling"
again.

All together now - Ahhhhhhhhhh!

Sincere thanks

Serenity

Oh no what have I done..away..away I say with the warm fuzzies!
peaceful day
Randji

[lightmystic]

Hey Serenity,

Thanks for your responses.

This sounds a good plan. I’m starting with a blank sheet. I have no experience of this area, which is probably why I have ended up here.


Okay.


I have no idea where my next teaching will come from.
Maybe its you – maybe its someone else from this forum, maybe its someone from outside of this forum, maybe they are sitting next to me right now, maybe its me. I don’t think it matters who it is, it’s the opportunity, openeness and willingness that is important to me.

Yes, I've noticed that as well. Tell life what you would like, and life will provide it, just not necessarily in the way you think it will.


I’m not here to POKE anyone, despite what some others appear to want to make out.
The question that has just struck me is - How does anyone learn?


When I say "poking" I'm not referring to negative criticism. In fact, I find life to simply be a poking of the Self, of our true nature, and seeing what comes out. That's what all this is, and that's how all learning happens fundamentally. The Self gets rippled and brings with it new knowledge. It's extremely warm and fuzzy, as long as one isn't clinging to a need to do something any particular way.


If everyone has “found their goal” or “gone” or however they refer to it, I believe they would not need or want to come back. A move onwards and upwards.

I'm not sure what you're saying exactly here, but if you're saying what I think you're saying, then I respectfully disagree. Once you find your goal, then what? It's the "then what" that's the interesting part to me....


Yes – and an end to “these issues” of spirituality. That’s not to say there wont be a barrow full new ones at the next stage. None of us really know whats next – but we will all find out in time. Meanwhile there are plenty of guessing games going on.

I never guess. If for no other reason than that it has no practical value. I always go with what my experience is now, or the way that I've noticed that Life functions...
My experience is that once the issues of the Self are resolved, then there is a re-exploration of everything that was labeled "not self", and the reconnection begins to be re-established...


Bruce Truckman thought so. Its been a methodology in use for over 40 years with varying degrees of success. By the way “adjourning” has also been referred to as the “Mourning Stage”, so it may not be ideal, but its realistic in this life.

What does this mean? Who is Bruce Truckman? (can't find anything on him with a Google search...)

I don't necessarily relate to what your saying, but it could be that I'm just not familiar with the terminology. I would enjoy getting on the same page as you if possible...

My initial impression of this forum is that there are a minority who offer destructive criticism rather than constructive criticism. I’m looking for the latter, and am happy to deflect the former.

Yes, that's the idea. Well, if there's something you want to talk about, explore or whatever, I would be happy to do so with you...

[serenity]

Peaceful day to you too Randji,

All the warm fuzziness has gone now. Have you been tweaking with my higher self?

Peace and Calm
Serenity

[serenity]

Hi lightmystic

I’m letting the query on the topic of “found their goal” simmer on my back burner for a while. Then I’ll get back to you. (I feel it needs more than just my initial response).


For the works of B.T. check out:-

findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3954/is_200104/ai_n8943663

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forming-storming-norming-performing

The experiences I’ve had with teams, in the work place, have, in the main conformed to Bruce’s theory. It has been invaluable in helping me to understand the reactions and events that have arisen at various times. So much so, I actually anticipate the typical issues and reactions of team members before they arise.
I know its straying of the “Spiritual Path” in the strictest sense of the phrase. But this forum “IS” complying to BT stages, from what I’m observing. So in a strange twist and paradox, I’m seeing my work experience being reflected in my personal spiritual enquiry.
This is going to provide me with an unexpected avenue to explore.

Finally, with regard to:-
“Yes, that's the idea. Well, if there's something you want to talk about, explore or whatever, I would be happy to do so with you.”

Likewise, I’m looking forward to the journey. I’ve already learnt a lot from ALL the responses I’ve had over the last couple of days. So I’m going to let them soak in for a day or two, before stepping forward.

Thanks for the replies and responses.
Each step and stage is vital (to me)

Best wishes
Serenity

[lightmystic]

Serenity -

Ahh! Thanks for those articles, now a lot more of what you're saying makes sense!

Yes, this forum's different members have gone through various points of storming and norming with each other. That's the point of these spiritual threads (from what I've seen): catalysts for change.

Those that have completed their journey then go on to a different journey, but one of appreciation and growth towards more, as opposed to one of getting out of pain, lack, and suffering. Thus, in terms of talking about it, there is an adjourning, or, alternatively, a transforming. Transforming is the ideal, for those that believe that knowing the self is the end are quite missing out. Whether one likes to talk about it or not, however, depends on the individual person. I know that I love to talk about it...


I’m letting the query on the topic of “found their goal” simmer on my back burner for a while. Then I’ll get back to you. (I feel it needs more than just my initial response).

Sounds good....

The experiences I’ve had with teams, in the work place, have, in the main conformed to Bruce’s theory. It has been invaluable in helping me to understand the reactions and events that have arisen at various times. So much so, I actually anticipate the typical issues and reactions of team members before they arise.
I know its straying of the “Spiritual Path” in the strictest sense of the phrase. But this forum “IS” complying to BT stages, from what I’m observing. So in a strange twist and paradox, I’m seeing my work experience being reflected in my personal spiritual enquiry.
This is going to provide me with an unexpected avenue to explore.


Yes, it's actually quite a good model for mapping the process of transformation, and that works for group dynamics, and even internal transformational dynamics. Very cool.

[dwbh1953]

Jan 30, 2009 17:31:36 GMT -5 serenity said:

Hi lightmystic

I’m letting the query on the topic of “found their goal” simmer on my back burner for a while. Then I’ll get back to you. (I feel it needs more than just my initial response).


For the works of B.T. check out:-

findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3954/is_200104/ai_n8943663

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forming-storming-norming-performing

The experiences I’ve had with teams, in the work place, have, in the main conformed to Bruce’s theory. It has been invaluable in helping me to understand the reactions and events that have arisen at various times. So much so, I actually anticipate the typical issues and reactions of team members before they arise.
I know its straying of the “Spiritual Path” in the strictest sense of the phrase. But this forum “IS” complying to BT stages, from what I’m observing. So in a strange twist and paradox, I’m seeing my work experience being reflected in my personal spiritual enquiry.
This is going to provide me with an unexpected avenue to explore.

Finally, with regard to:-
“Yes, that's the idea. Well, if there's something you want to talk about, explore or whatever, I would be happy to do so with you.”

Likewise, I’m looking forward to the journey. I’ve already learnt a lot from ALL the responses I’ve had over the last couple of days. So I’m going to let them soak in for a day or two, before stepping forward.

Thanks for the replies and responses.
Each step and stage is vital (to me)

Best wishes
Serenity
[/quote

Hi S,

Interesting business models working with teams or groups.

The spirituality community is actually a step ahead of what you posted.
TM is one good example of bringing spirituality into the corp. work place. They have done good work there.
Also a very large group called Shiddha yoga has entered into the corp world. Because Shiddha Yoga as a organization is run so well it caught the attention of some corp giants and now are using the same type of management skills that they use in Shiddha Yoga.

And then on a smaller but more powerful level I have a friend that uses nonduality to personally coach the President and the VIPs of Corning Glass works. The times we are in are changing fast and the way of communications are changing at a very rapid rate.

So no I do not think your straying much given what is happening today in the new corp world. Please no fuzzy feelings on this post!
You will ruin my reputation..lol
Peace
Randji

[serenity]

Hi Lightmystic,

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, there is a lot of "Letting Go" required to enable growth.

The "Found their goal" topic is still "cooking" on the back burner.
I'll Be in touch soon.

Serenity

[serenity]

Hi Randji

Thanks for the encouragement on the team working thread.

I know it wasnt exactly given as "Homework" but I'm turning the suggestion of yours into one:-

"try going through your day now with the new idea that time is not real"

A difficult one, but a good and meaty topic to start with - so here goes:

Being concerned with "just now", where all there is "is now", where the past and future are irrelevant constructs of the mind.
I can appreciate the concept that "Time" is a man/human/physical phenomenon. Yet because it is one of the "dimensions" that has allowed mankind to understand and conquer the physical world - it is very difficult to escape from its clutches for long enough to see it for what it really is.
In the scenario I find myself every day, TIME plays such a large key role, it is very difficult to step back from it. I believe it would only be by stepping back that I could even begin to really see it for what it really is.

Even though I understand the theory behind the terminology of "time is a construct of man and is not real", getting to a physical place where one can assimilate and appreciate that, is a challenge.

For example, my working day is driven in the most part by the clock. My early morning rise is only possible by loud physical noises made by mechanical timing devices. This allows just enough time to make commuting connections on the long journey to work. Once there, overnight crises need instant attention. Breaks and meal times are at precise times and duration's. The commute home has to be interfaced with colleagues and 3rd party transport. So, basically the day (my day - my now) is governed by the construct we know as TIME.
For me to be able to deconstruct this phenomenon, and really appreciate that TIME is not real, would take a shift in Life-Style. Maybe an unpaid career break is required, so I could don my boots and rucksack, leave my watch, calendar and diary behind, hike half way up a mountain, live in a log cabin alone and contemplate time and discover its falseness. But the current financial crises is moving the possibility into a vague dream.

Meanwhile, I have been trying (honestly Mr Teacher - I have!) to go through the day with the thought / idea that time is not real. I appear to gain brief moments where this is so, where a clarity temporarily breaks through. But at the moment, they really are brief. I still have a mountain full of work to do (sorry for the pun), but I'll keep plugging away.
Patience and commitment are required in abundance - and I'm willing to give this topic both.

Thanks again
Serenity

[serenity]

Hi LightMystic,

I'm not sure what you're saying exactly here, but if you're saying what I think you're saying, then I respectfully disagree. Once you find your goal, then what? It's the "then what" that's the interesting part to me....


I'm sure we are all at the level that is right for us. The level we (or at least a knowing part of us) need to be at, at this stage of our journey. A journey that is not physical, but internal.

So, I'm following the thought that the different levels have different challenges and different possible goals.
Hence a goal for one person, may just be a single stepping stone for another person.

If you look from an overall perspective, the full picture of goals and journeys may look like a 3-d version of Chutes and ladders, (or "snakes and ladders" in my neck of the woods).
But whilst experiencing the physical stage of our existence, I believe there IS a physical limit to our journey / goal. The "then what?" that you ask about is not something that I believe can be answered by anyone. I'm probably wrong but I think the "then what" will be revealed after this stage is complete and the next stage begins.


Best

Serenity

[lightmystic]

How about feeling into the idea that time is not real in the sense that everything you could ever want, be, etc. is available now? Immediately. It won't look like what you think it will on the surface (there's no way to know what it will actually look like), but there is no time lapse to prevent total fulfillment now...

Feb 2, 2009 5:19:27 GMT -5 serenity said:

Hi Randji

Thanks for the encouragement on the team working thread.

I know it wasnt exactly given as "Homework" but I'm turning the suggestion of yours into one:-

"try going through your day now with the new idea that time is not real"

A difficult one, but a good and meaty topic to start with - so here goes:

Being concerned with "just now", where all there is "is now", where the past and future are irrelevant constructs of the mind.
I can appreciate the concept that "Time" is a man/human/physical phenomenon. Yet because it is one of the "dimensions" that has allowed mankind to understand and conquer the physical world - it is very difficult to escape from its clutches for long enough to see it for what it really is.
In the scenario I find myself every day, TIME plays such a large key role, it is very difficult to step back from it. I believe it would only be by stepping back that I could even begin to really see it for what it really is.

Even though I understand the theory behind the terminology of "time is a construct of man and is not real", getting to a physical place where one can assimilate and appreciate that, is a challenge.

For example, my working day is driven in the most part by the clock. My early morning rise is only possible by loud physical noises made by mechanical timing devices. This allows just enough time to make commuting connections on the long journey to work. Once there, overnight crises need instant attention. Breaks and meal times are at precise times and duration's. The commute home has to be interfaced with colleagues and 3rd party transport. So, basically the day (my day - my now) is governed by the construct we know as TIME.
For me to be able to deconstruct this phenomenon, and really appreciate that TIME is not real, would take a shift in Life-Style. Maybe an unpaid career break is required, so I could don my boots and rucksack, leave my watch, calendar and diary behind, hike half way up a mountain, live in a log cabin alone and contemplate time and discover its falseness. But the current financial crises is moving the possibility into a vague dream.

Meanwhile, I have been trying (honestly Mr Teacher - I have!) to go through the day with the thought / idea that time is not real. I appear to gain brief moments where this is so, where a clarity temporarily breaks through. But at the moment, they really are brief. I still have a mountain full of work to do (sorry for the pun), but I'll keep plugging away.
Patience and commitment are required in abundance - and I'm willing to give this topic both.

Thanks again
Serenity

[lightmystic]

Serenity -

I'm sure we are all at the level that is right for us.

Ok. Well the "what's next" is my interest at at least.

The level we (or at least a knowing part of us) need to be at, at this stage of our journey. A journey that is not physical, but internal.

What does that mean? Why would it exclude physicality? That's not my experience at all...

So, I'm following the thought that the different levels have different challenges and different possible goals.
Hence a goal for one person, may just be a single stepping stone for another person.

If you look from an overall perspective, the full picture of goals and journeys may look like a 3-d version of Chutes and ladders, (or "snakes and ladders" in my neck of the woods).
But whilst experiencing the physical stage of our existence, I believe there IS a physical limit to our journey / goal. The "then what?" that you ask about is not something that I believe can be answered by anyone. I'm probably wrong but I think the "then what" will be revealed after this stage is complete and the next stage begins.

Physical limit? One can know the very edges of physical Creation intimately, but then there's more...
That's one thing I can say definitively...


But what's the point of this conjecture? I just go off of experience. Who cares what anyone's opinion is? What's your actual experience serenity?

[dwbh1953]

Feb 2, 2009 5:19:27 GMT -5 serenity said:

Hi Randji

Thanks for the encouragement on the team working thread.

I know it wasnt exactly given as "Homework" but I'm turning the suggestion of yours into one:-

"try going through your day now with the new idea that time is not real"

A difficult one, but a good and meaty topic to start with - so here goes:

Being concerned with "just now", where all there is "is now", where the past and future are irrelevant constructs of the mind.
I can appreciate the concept that "Time" is a man/human/physical phenomenon. Yet because it is one of the "dimensions" that has allowed mankind to understand and conquer the physical world - it is very difficult to escape from its clutches for long enough to see it for what it really is.
In the scenario I find myself every day, TIME plays such a large key role, it is very difficult to step back from it. I believe it would only be by stepping back that I could even begin to really see it for what it really is.

Even though I understand the theory behind the terminology of "time is a construct of man and is not real", getting to a physical place where one can assimilate and appreciate that, is a challenge.

For example, my working day is driven in the most part by the clock. My early morning rise is only possible by loud physical noises made by mechanical timing devices. This allows just enough time to make commuting connections on the long journey to work. Once there, overnight crises need instant attention. Breaks and meal times are at precise times and duration's. The commute home has to be interfaced with colleagues and 3rd party transport. So, basically the day (my day - my now) is governed by the construct we know as TIME.
For me to be able to deconstruct this phenomenon, and really appreciate that TIME is not real, would take a shift in Life-Style. Maybe an unpaid career break is required, so I could don my boots and rucksack, leave my watch, calendar and diary behind, hike half way up a mountain, live in a log cabin alone and contemplate time and discover its falseness. But the current financial crises is moving the possibility into a vague dream.

Meanwhile, I have been trying (honestly Mr Teacher - I have!) to go through the day with the thought / idea that time is not real. I appear to gain brief moments where this is so, where a clarity temporarily breaks through. But at the moment, they really are brief. I still have a mountain full of work to do (sorry for the pun), but I'll keep plugging away.
Patience and commitment are required in abundance - and I'm willing to give this topic both.

Thanks again
Serenity

Hi Serenity,

Time is as real as being in the present moment or not.
The more your in the moment the less you deal with time.
A common example of this is when your doing something you love or maybe when you first fell in love. Where did al the hours go, did it not seem like just a moment and then you had to depart from your lover.
Now take something that you hate to do, even the thought of doing it upsets you. You can counts the seconds off it is if time is forever.

The reason is simple when you have a high degree of interest and feelings with something time is not there because your completley in the moment. You are not thinking about the past or the future you are just being and enjoying it. The reverse is also true when you doing something you eally hate doing your mind is working overtime bitching and complaining thinking about how long you need to be there bla bla bla.

So take this to a higher degree in spirituality and you will see there is no time just you being.
Randji

[serenity]

Hi Lightmystic,

I have not dared to look, but I think the wheels are falling off my wagon. I’ve lost the plot.

What does that mean? Why would it exclude physicality? That's not my experience at all..

Well when you travel from a to b, the scenary may be different. But you haven’t changed (OK maybe your perception of the world might have done, but not you).
One can chase all the materialistic, monetary, physical goals one wants to. But the journey you are really wanting to make is internal.
So YES it can include physical – but you might as well dispense with it and cut to the chase.

Physical limit? One can know the very edges of physical Creation intimately, but then there's more...
That's one thing I can say definitively...

I NEED you to have a word with my Bank.
When my balance gets to zero, purchasing physical items totally stops. No question no argument, no explanation. Maybe I can point my Bank in your direction and get you to tell them:- “but then there's more... That's one thing I can say definitively...”

;-) Time to don that Tin Helmut again – me thinks!

But what's the point of this conjecture? I just go off of experience. Who cares what anyone's opinion is? What's your actual experience serenity?

You’ve lost me here:-
What the point? - There is no point to any of this.
Whos cares about opinions? – I do, that why I’m reading and contributing to this thread.
Actual experience? – I don’t have any – that’s why I’m here – to bathe in the light of superior knowledge.

Trusting that I and the Track, will be back together soon!

Best wishes
Serenity

PS Thanks for the pointer on “TIME” I think I get it – “feel into it”. It may take a bunch of “time” {groan!!} to unlearn the old ways though. But I'll keep you in the loop on progress.

[serenity]

Hi Randji

Woooow! Now we are getting somewhere. Or at least I believe I’m getting somewhere.
Maybe I'm still in la-la land.

My poor little grey cells are getting bombarded with good info, learning and new things to chew over.
I really appreciate your post and help. Your words are resonating with me.

Today is the first day since joining this school, that I’ve really thought that the painful transition out of nursery was worth it.

Thanks again.
Is it play-time now?

Serenity

[serenity]

Hi Oneness,

I’m not sure how or why its happened, but from making an observation on your thread, the topic you started appears to have been side-tracked and ignored.

As I am to blame, I suggest steps are taken to remedy the situation, and that further comm’s are started on a new thread.
So that the original discussion can get back on track.


Staff / Moderators/Experienced members – Is this the etiquette in these situations?

Best

Serenity