John Wheeler

[Deleted]

Feb 5, 2014 0:53:17 GMT -5 silence said:

Feb 3, 2014 12:58:02 GMT -5 maxdprophet said:

On my end it's more like awe combined with "why doesn't any of that honey drip from my tongue?" or something.

Jealousy?

Perhaps. First awe, then jealousy and anxiety.

[Deleted]

Go lightly with the snap evaluation of yourself as “awareness”. This reference to awareness is basically a pointer to orient the looking in the right direction, that is, toward what you are. But, if every time you begin looking you simply fall back on the catch phrase “awareness”, you are assuming this as what you are, but it may not be the actuality intended. Clearly, there is awareness or consciousness of the mind. Seeing this undercuts the assumed primacy of the mind. But if you come down too quickly with “I am awareness”, it is apt to become another unexamined self-definition. Many miss this subtle point. Then they stop looking and start identifying with another concept. “I am awareness” is a self-definition. Trying to “stand as awareness”, for example, implies another duality and revives the self-center reference point. Identifying as awareness is an expedient step to help break exclusive identity with the mind. As such, it may be useful. But the looking really continues from that point. So, it is premature to assume that awareness or consciousness is the endpoint of the looking. Looking and investigating is important, not conclusions, even if they sound non-dualistic.

[silence]

Feb 7, 2014 8:37:13 GMT -5 maxdprophet said:

Feb 5, 2014 0:53:17 GMT -5 silence said:

Jealousy?

Perhaps. First awe, then jealousy and anxiety.

What's the anxiety about?

[Deleted]

Feb 7, 2014 20:59:04 GMT -5 silence said:

Feb 7, 2014 8:37:13 GMT -5 maxdprophet said:

Perhaps. First awe, then jealousy and anxiety.

What's the anxiety about?

Not being able to drip honey.

[Deleted]

If, for the sake of discussion, we refer to what you are as “being”, what we are doing is simply noticing what is the actual nature of this. Clearly, your being is present and evident. It is not a recognition or event, as it is too simple for that. It is not something known or observed, for those activities bring in a needless duality or event orientation. Your nature IS THERE. It is self-evident, natural and prior to all else. These are just FACTS we are noting. All the pointers, such as “awareness”, “being”, or “oneness” are concepts meant to suggest or give a taste. But none of these ARE you. You are outside and prior to these or any other notions. In this way, you are (so to speak) zeroing in on this simple and evident fact of your being and only verifying more clearly what this is and is not. Nothing is gained or achieved, but the concepts ABOUT what you are, are naturally de-emphasized in favor of the direct fact of BEING what you are. Full stop. Nothing else is really needed. However, if the simplicity of this is not fully appreciated, this experiential looking acts as an antidote to counteract any commitment to concepts ABOUT what you are. Even that falls away naturally, for in the end nobody needs to look or inquire to BE what they already ARE. If this experience of simply BEING as you are (and not identifying as concepts) is the case, then nothing more is needed to do or understand. You must decide, based on your experience, if any further pointers or application is needed. If not, then just stand pat. If there is any sense of reality being projected into self-centered concepts, looking is useful to expose this unfounded allegiance to being something other than what you are. Such looking or inquiry naturally expires in the process, like the proverbial stick used for stirring the fire. Use the stick as long as needed. If there is “nothing wrong any more”, there is no need to stir. Again, it is based on your experience.

www.thenaturalstate.info/

[Deleted]

The point is to recognize and remain as your absolutely unconditional state (stateless state) prior to words and concepts, even prior to consciousness or the knowledge ‘I am’. The knowledge ‘I am’ is itself appearance. You are there even before you have any knowledge of being. The pointers are put across in a progressive manner, in order to refine away the conceptual identifications, from gross and obvious to more subtle. Many stop along way, feeling that whatever has been understood is ‘it’. But in fact anything that is ‘understood’ is never ‘it’, because your nature is really prior to understanding, prior to consciousness. The revelation of the nonconceptual absolute is approached through a series of more and more subtle provisional pointers. Any stand, concept, claim or reference point, no matter how ‘high’, will not stand the final litmus test of itself being the absolute. Even the claim that ‘I am the non-conceptual absolute’ is still a concept. Knowledge is the final ignorance, the last obstacle. Many get sidetracked, thinking ‘they know’ and ‘have arrived’. This brings in a subtle ego that is hard to eradicate. Knowledge is only used to cancel ignorance and then itself is discarded. One in many millions of seekers will have the wherewithal and proper guidance to transcend even self-knowledge (recognition and identification with consciousness). Reality is beyond dualities, including knowledge and ignorance. Nothing is supposed to ‘happen’. Only see where you really stand. Basically, you are not a concept, are you? Giving yourself a label or verbal description and taking that as reality is the root of the problem and the only apparent bondage there ever was. All pointers are strategies to arrive at this recognition.

[Deleted]

John Wheeler's website has been down for several days now ... Has he finally had enough of all the questions and so few getting their heads around what he's saying?

[ditto]

His site's still down. Which is a difficulty because I'd like to contact him. Anybody have any information about his contactability?

[lou]

You may like to try Sailor Bob's website contact details. John Wheeler often came here to Australia and chatted at Bob's place. They may know. www.sailorbobadamson.com
Good luck.

[ditto]

I've been in touch with John and he says he's 'offline for any spiritual activities' right now. That's too bad. What a shame when you find somebody you'd like to work with and they turn out to be unavailable.

[Deleted]

May 16, 2014 11:16:13 GMT -5 ditto said:

I've been in touch with John and he says he's 'offline for any spiritual activities' right now. That's too bad. What a shame when you find somebody you'd like to work with and they turn out to be unavailable.

What are you going to work on?

[ditto]

'Work' was just a figure of speech. I don't really do anything these days, I just watch it. However... until recently, I've always thought having a teacher was hugely optional. I still think that, but John Wheeler (whose teaching I really admire) says time and again that in his own experience it was the meeting with Sailor Bob that marked the change from 'I get it' to 'living it', and that he thinks that's also true for most people. I'm pretty sure my behaviors fall into the 'most people' category. So that's why I wanted to put it to the test and connect up with him face to face in the same room. If he's going to take the trouble to put the message out there, I'll take the trouble to take it seriously, because I admire the way he does it so much.

[julie]

I, too, am disappointed that John has "disappeared". He has been very attentive in emailing me on and off for many years. I did not contact him for a couple of months recently and the when I did his email was no longer valid. He spent so much time trying to communicate this to me and now when I'm finally starting to really get it I can't share it with him. Just feels a little sad and there are no other teachers I am interested in. I guess it is for the best - he set me on the right path and now it is up to me to finish it out.

[Deleted]

Jun 19, 2014 9:17:34 GMT -5 julie said:

I, too, am disappointed that John has "disappeared". He has been very attentive in emailing me on and off for many years. I did not contact him for a couple of months recently and the when I did his email was no longer valid. He spent so much time trying to communicate this to me and now when I'm finally starting to really get it I can't share it with him. Just feels a little sad and there are no other teachers I am interested in. I guess it is for the best - he set me on the right path and now it is up to me to finish it out.

He takes a break every now and then. Maybe share here? Much of the convos we have on this forum are squarely in his ballpark. Though he once warned me off online forums.

[silence]

Jun 19, 2014 9:17:34 GMT -5 julie said:

I, too, am disappointed that John has "disappeared". He has been very attentive in emailing me on and off for many years. I did not contact him for a couple of months recently and the when I did his email was no longer valid. He spent so much time trying to communicate this to me and now when I'm finally starting to really get it I can't share it with him. Just feels a little sad and there are no other teachers I am interested in. I guess it is for the best - he set me on the right path and now it is up to me to finish it out.

I recall opening a book once in the library that I believe was some sort of conglomeration of spiritual teachers, quotes and passages from their work. The very first line I saw was a teacher saying something along the lines of "It was all bull$hit, every last word. Looking back, I can barely even believe I was saying such things. It's time to throw it all out". Maybe Johnny cashed in his satsang dinero and headed to Tahiti.