John Wheeler

[Deleted]

I just heard him on a couple urbangurucafe podcasts. he's very clear and focused and persistant. melikes, and i just ordered one of his books.

i listened to podcasts 19 and 21, which can be found here (along with other ugc podcasts):
urbangurucafe.com/category/ugc-speakers/podcasts-blogroll-6/

it appears that he used to have a website thenaturalstate.org but i don't see him on the web anywhere recently. anybody know what he's up to?

[zenman]

Yea, I discovered Wheeler through the UGC also. He was giving weekly talks in Santa Cruz for several years and then added more meetings in Palo Alto a few months ago, then stopped holding public meetings altogether. I live nearby in SF and was lucky enough to attend a handful of his talks and must say he's the most helpful, direct, down to earth "teacher" I've ever encountered, and I've encountered MANY. He's still open to seeing people one on one, and may go back to holding group talks at some point, but he took down his web site so it will take some web sleuthing to figure out how to contact him. I think the UGC has his email address posted. I believe he pulled back from the public scene because of the glut of "Satsang" teachers here in Northern California with their obvious career agendas and often misleading teachings. He was holding talks at a place where a handful of these satsang teachers were meeting and I admit it was a strange juxtaposition seeing his flyer next to theirs. If I can make an amusing analogy, it was like an authentic bodyworker giving massages out of an asian massage parlor.

[Deleted]

thanks zenman -- JW sure is a gem. very happy he's around and communicado -- which i've been partaking in!

[zenman]

Charlie Hayes recorded 9 dialogues he did with Wheeler a while back. They were all around 60 minutes long, or more, but now I think those have been removed from his site. It's too bad because they were good. Wheeler is really passionate about sharing this stuff so I think we'll see more from him at some point.

The UGC recordings are excellent though and cover most of the bases.

[Deleted]

i just read this from Wheeler's 'You Were Never Born' and found it very clear and helpful. He starts the book with this:

... You Were Never Born ...
~ Review of the Basics ~


It all comes down to clarifying your identity. You are already present. So there is no need to look for a future state, experience or attainment. What you are seeking to know is not separate or distant, since it is your own self. What you are must be always with you. Anything which appears and disappears cannot, by definition, be what you are. Thoughts, feelings, perceptions, experiences, objects these all come and go. None of them as such can be the essence of what you are. So set those aside and continue to look into your true nature. What is left to consider? Surprisingly little!

However, you are still present. You are still aware. Look at this presence of awareness itself. Having discarded all else, this is the only possible remainder and must be what you are. Your existence is beyond any doubt, and what you are is brightly aware. You are that knowing presence which is registering all thoughts, feelings and experiences. Look directly into this. This is the heart of the matter.

Notice that thoughts arise and set, but this presence, your own natural being remains constant. There is no need to wait for the future to see this, nor is there any need for a special practice, technique or approach simply because it is already present. You do not need to make an effort to be present and aware. It is completely natural and effortless. Look now and notice that what you are and the sense of presence-awareness are not two different things. You are that which is present and aware. Many words are used to point to this essential nature: presence, awareness, consciousness, life, spirit, emptiness, being, God, oneness and so on. These are all simply pointers. And what they are pointing to is your true nature nothing more or less.

The body and mind may suffer experiences, yet awareness, your natural being, remains unaffected and uncompromised, just like the sun ever shining beyond the clouds and utterly untouched by them. Your true nature has no suffering, doubts or problems at all. See all this and you will find that your true nature is ever-present awareness, changeless being and undisturbed freedom and peace itself. These are additional pointers to the same wordless, immediate presence of your true nature.

You are not a limited, defective person, self or entity. This false belief is at the root of all seeking, suffering, doubts and problems in life. Those experiences are only creations of conceptual thought. Those concepts hinge on the imagined person who is assumed to be separate from oneness. So all thoughts of a suffering nature concern the identity, attributes and condition of a person to whom they are assumed to apply. Interest in the thoughts is sustained by the belief that we are that limited person, or separate self.

The person to whom those thoughts and stories pertain is the central 'I thought', ego or person that we have assumed to be present and real. This is the `lynch pin' of the whole production. All the self-centered concepts, beliefs and habits of mind are sustained by the belief in the presence of this person. That is why a very effective approach is simply to investigate the reality of this assumed person.

Were is the person? Is it it real? Did you ever find it? For example, in any given moment there may be a few thoughts, feelings or sensations appearing. Do any of those constitute a person, a separate self? They are simply momentary objects appearing and disappearing in present awareness. How could they be a substantial self or independent person? If you set those aside and continue to investigate, you will find that there is nothing else present at all to investigate!

All there is, is wide open, clear, obvious presence-awareness itself. And that is not a limited person or entity. The conclusion must be that the person that we have taken ourselves to be is a complete myth because it is not findable in direct experience. And if it does not exist now, then it never existed in the past, nor will it ever exist in the future.

If the person is discovered as not real, not present, a mere unexamined assumption, then the root of all self-centered, conceptual thoughts, beliefs, habits, and attachments is severed. With this recognition, the interest in the self-centered stories fades naturally and effortlessly because there is no more belief in the reality of the central concept, the person. The thoughts and beliefs unwind and scatter like autumn leaves in the wind. There is no more belief in the fixed reference point of a self or a central character.

You simply remain as the open sky of awareness in which all thoughts arise and set untouched, spacious, clear and always unmodified. The tendency to fixate on or attach to thoughts dissipates. Seeing this, you cannot believe in self-centered thoughts, even if you want to, because the basic misconception has been undermined. You do not seek water in a mirage once it is known to be a mirage.

What about the nature of the world, the universe that presents itself to us? All that we can know is what appears to us in immediate experience. And that which appears (whether it be a thought, feeling, perception or any other experience) has no separate and independent existence apart from the awareness which cognizes it. Since awareness and objects always appear together, they must be the same in essence.

How many thoughts, feelings or perceptions can you have outside of awareness? They are inseparable. Everything that appears arises from, exists upon and returns into awareness. Even time, space and seeming external objects are present experiences contained in your knowing presence. There is nothing separate and apart from this ever. In fact, there is just this only this inescapable presence-awareness. You are that.

How do we live and function in the world? This is a false question because, as we have already seen, there is no one present who can live or function! At a practical level, all thoughts, feelings and actions go on without any reference to an imagined self-center or person. 'I' am not thinking, feeling, sensing, experiencing or acting because there is no 'I' present to do those things. Look at your thoughts right now. Is there an 'I' creating them? Or are they simply arising spontaneously? Surely the latter is the case. Do you have any idea what the next thought will be? If not, how can you say you created it?

If you say you are choosing, creating or controlling your thoughts, then why would you ever create an unhappy or troubling thought? So you see that thoughts simply appear. There is no person or self involved at all. The same goes for choices, decisions, feelings and actions. It is all happening spontaneously. So the question `How will I live my life?' is unnecessary. There is no 'you' to do anything at all. Things simply come up to be done. Life and its activities arise spontaneously and effortlessly from moment to moment in response to the demands of the situation and circumstances.

You can see all of these things directly, No special insight, awakening or enlightenment is needed. What is being pointed to is the natural condition of what is. We may have overlooked this, but it is not difficult to see. How could it be, when it is shining here in plain view? However, if necessary, you can review the basic points covered above and confirm them for yourself. Then the simple truth of your present natural state stands out very dearly right now. Before the next thought or experience appears you are already that natural and uncontrived presence-awareness itself.


... You Were Never Born ...
- John Wheeler -


(found the text here www.soulwise.net/99jwhe.htm)

[vacant]

I like! Thanks Max.

[Deleted]

www.thenaturalstate.info/index.html

his site is online again. great guy.

[Deleted]

"Are you IN the mind content or are you aware of the mind content?"

[Portto]

Jan 9, 2012 11:18:36 GMT -5 maxdprophet said:

"Are you IN the mind content or are you aware of the mind content?"

Neither. I am the 'oscillating seeing' of mind and awareness. ;D

[Deleted]

oy, sounds complicated.

[Portto]

Indeed. That's what happens when I don't drink enough tea.

[Deleted]

All the pointers and discussions are ultimately antidotes for grosser concepts. Along the way, all the pointers, insights, words and labels will naturally drop away. For you don’t need any of these to be what you are. Bob Adamson’s pointer “What’s wrong with right now unless you think about it?” is one of the classic statements. The point of all this is that once the basic point is clear regarding one’s true identity, there is not even a motivation to hold to teachings any longer. YOU are not a teaching. You are what you are. This is the beauty of the “full stop”. People who understand this are not even too fixated on spirituality or non-duality. The real key in the end is that the “I, me, mine” has been deactivated as a reference point. True understanding really means humility or absence of (small) self. Even saying “I” understand or “I” am awake, as is often done, is too much! I have never heard anyone with a heartfelt understanding of this say any such things. Anyway, real understanding and lived experience of freedom is not necessarily in the hands of those who bandy about non-duality phrases in the spiritual marketplace. This is often not clear to seekers who are attracted to words rather than what the words point to. Spiritual teachings are medicines for those who are ill. So they are provisional. When health is present, the medicines are not used. In fact, to keep taking them would likely lead to more illness. Health is the goal, not the medicines. So there is no need to over medicate once the basics are clear. The real point of the whole quest is living in a natural and unconditioned freedom based on having gotten to the root of things. At that point, one hardly thinks of this stuff at all, because even thoughts about non-duality are a bit of a come down from simply being THAT! The highest experience is simply being what you are and no longer being compelled to label it or conceptualize it.

www.thenaturalstate.info/index.html

[runstill]

Sept 11, 2011 7:08:26 GMT -5 maxdprophet said:

i just read this from Wheeler's 'You Were Never Born' and found it very clear and helpful. He starts the book with this:

... You Were Never Born ...
~ Review of the Basics ~


It all comes down to clarifying your identity. You are already present. So there is no need to look for a future state, experience or attainment. What you are seeking to know is not separate or distant, since it is your own self. What you are must be always with you. Anything which appears and disappears cannot, by definition, be what you are. Thoughts, feelings, perceptions, experiences, objects these all come and go. None of them as such can be the essence of what you are. So set those aside and continue to look into your true nature. What is left to consider? Surprisingly little!

However, you are still present. You are still aware. Look at this presence of awareness itself. Having discarded all else, this is the only possible remainder and must be what you are. Your existence is beyond any doubt, and what you are is brightly aware. You are that knowing presence which is registering all thoughts, feelings and experiences. Look directly into this. This is the heart of the matter.

Notice that thoughts arise and set, but this presence, your own natural being remains constant. There is no need to wait for the future to see this, nor is there any need for a special practice, technique or approach simply because it is already present. You do not need to make an effort to be present and aware. It is completely natural and effortless. Look now and notice that what you are and the sense of presence-awareness are not two different things. You are that which is present and aware. Many words are used to point to this essential nature: presence, awareness, consciousness, life, spirit, emptiness, being, God, oneness and so on. These are all simply pointers. And what they are pointing to is your true nature nothing more or less.

The body and mind may suffer experiences, yet awareness, your natural being, remains unaffected and uncompromised, just like the sun ever shining beyond the clouds and utterly untouched by them. Your true nature has no suffering, doubts or problems at all. See all this and you will find that your true nature is ever-present awareness, changeless being and undisturbed freedom and peace itself. These are additional pointers to the same wordless, immediate presence of your true nature.

You are not a limited, defective person, self or entity. This false belief is at the root of all seeking, suffering, doubts and problems in life. Those experiences are only creations of conceptual thought. Those concepts hinge on the imagined person who is assumed to be separate from oneness. So all thoughts of a suffering nature concern the identity, attributes and condition of a person to whom they are assumed to apply. Interest in the thoughts is sustained by the belief that we are that limited person, or separate self.

The person to whom those thoughts and stories pertain is the central 'I thought', ego or person that we have assumed to be present and real. This is the `lynch pin' of the whole production. All the self-centered concepts, beliefs and habits of mind are sustained by the belief in the presence of this person. That is why a very effective approach is simply to investigate the reality of this assumed person.

Were is the person? Is it it real? Did you ever find it? For example, in any given moment there may be a few thoughts, feelings or sensations appearing. Do any of those constitute a person, a separate self? They are simply momentary objects appearing and disappearing in present awareness. How could they be a substantial self or independent person? If you set those aside and continue to investigate, you will find that there is nothing else present at all to investigate!

All there is, is wide open, clear, obvious presence-awareness itself. And that is not a limited person or entity. The conclusion must be that the person that we have taken ourselves to be is a complete myth because it is not findable in direct experience. And if it does not exist now, then it never existed in the past, nor will it ever exist in the future.

If the person is discovered as not real, not present, a mere unexamined assumption, then the root of all self-centered, conceptual thoughts, beliefs, habits, and attachments is severed. With this recognition, the interest in the self-centered stories fades naturally and effortlessly because there is no more belief in the reality of the central concept, the person. The thoughts and beliefs unwind and scatter like autumn leaves in the wind. There is no more belief in the fixed reference point of a self or a central character.

You simply remain as the open sky of awareness in which all thoughts arise and set untouched, spacious, clear and always unmodified. The tendency to fixate on or attach to thoughts dissipates. Seeing this, you cannot believe in self-centered thoughts, even if you want to, because the basic misconception has been undermined. You do not seek water in a mirage once it is known to be a mirage.

What about the nature of the world, the universe that presents itself to us? All that we can know is what appears to us in immediate experience. And that which appears (whether it be a thought, feeling, perception or any other experience) has no separate and independent existence apart from the awareness which cognizes it. Since awareness and objects always appear together, they must be the same in essence.

How many thoughts, feelings or perceptions can you have outside of awareness? They are inseparable. Everything that appears arises from, exists upon and returns into awareness. Even time, space and seeming external objects are present experiences contained in your knowing presence. There is nothing separate and apart from this ever. In fact, there is just this only this inescapable presence-awareness. You are that.

How do we live and function in the world? This is a false question because, as we have already seen, there is no one present who can live or function! At a practical level, all thoughts, feelings and actions go on without any reference to an imagined self-center or person. 'I' am not thinking, feeling, sensing, experiencing or acting because there is no 'I' present to do those things. Look at your thoughts right now. Is there an 'I' creating them? Or are they simply arising spontaneously? Surely the latter is the case. Do you have any idea what the next thought will be? If not, how can you say you created it?

If you say you are choosing, creating or controlling your thoughts, then why would you ever create an unhappy or troubling thought? So you see that thoughts simply appear. There is no person or self involved at all. The same goes for choices, decisions, feelings and actions. It is all happening spontaneously. So the question `How will I live my life?' is unnecessary. There is no 'you' to do anything at all. Things simply come up to be done. Life and its activities arise spontaneously and effortlessly from moment to moment in response to the demands of the situation and circumstances.

You can see all of these things directly, No special insight, awakening or enlightenment is needed. What is being pointed to is the natural condition of what is. We may have overlooked this, but it is not difficult to see. How could it be, when it is shining here in plain view? However, if necessary, you can review the basic points covered above and confirm them for yourself. Then the simple truth of your present natural state stands out very dearly right now. Before the next thought or experience appears you are already that natural and uncontrived presence-awareness itself.


... You Were Never Born ...
- John Wheeler -

Hi maxzprophet really good stuff these excerpts are outstanding please post more if you feel moved.

[esponja]

Apr 22, 2012 2:14:27 GMT -5 runstill said:

Sept 11, 2011 7:08:26 GMT -5 maxdprophet said:

i just read this from Wheeler's 'You Were Never Born' and found it very clear and helpful. He starts the book with this:

... You Were Never Born ...
~ Review of the Basics ~


It all comes down to clarifying your identity. You are already present. So there is no need to look for a future state, experience or attainment. What you are seeking to know is not separate or distant, since it is your own self. What you are must be always with you. Anything which appears and disappears cannot, by definition, be what you are. Thoughts, feelings, perceptions, experiences, objects these all come and go. None of them as such can be the essence of what you are. So set those aside and continue to look into your true nature. What is left to consider? Surprisingly little!

However, you are still present. You are still aware. Look at this presence of awareness itself. Having discarded all else, this is the only possible remainder and must be what you are. Your existence is beyond any doubt, and what you are is brightly aware. You are that knowing presence which is registering all thoughts, feelings and experiences. Look directly into this. This is the heart of the matter.

Notice that thoughts arise and set, but this presence, your own natural being remains constant. There is no need to wait for the future to see this, nor is there any need for a special practice, technique or approach simply because it is already present. You do not need to make an effort to be present and aware. It is completely natural and effortless. Look now and notice that what you are and the sense of presence-awareness are not two different things. You are that which is present and aware. Many words are used to point to this essential nature: presence, awareness, consciousness, life, spirit, emptiness, being, God, oneness and so on. These are all simply pointers. And what they are pointing to is your true nature nothing more or less.

The body and mind may suffer experiences, yet awareness, your natural being, remains unaffected and uncompromised, just like the sun ever shining beyond the clouds and utterly untouched by them. Your true nature has no suffering, doubts or problems at all. See all this and you will find that your true nature is ever-present awareness, changeless being and undisturbed freedom and peace itself. These are additional pointers to the same wordless, immediate presence of your true nature.

You are not a limited, defective person, self or entity. This false belief is at the root of all seeking, suffering, doubts and problems in life. Those experiences are only creations of conceptual thought. Those concepts hinge on the imagined person who is assumed to be separate from oneness. So all thoughts of a suffering nature concern the identity, attributes and condition of a person to whom they are assumed to apply. Interest in the thoughts is sustained by the belief that we are that limited person, or separate self.

The person to whom those thoughts and stories pertain is the central 'I thought', ego or person that we have assumed to be present and real. This is the `lynch pin' of the whole production. All the self-centered concepts, beliefs and habits of mind are sustained by the belief in the presence of this person. That is why a very effective approach is simply to investigate the reality of this assumed person.

Were is the person? Is it it real? Did you ever find it? For example, in any given moment there may be a few thoughts, feelings or sensations appearing. Do any of those constitute a person, a separate self? They are simply momentary objects appearing and disappearing in present awareness. How could they be a substantial self or independent person? If you set those aside and continue to investigate, you will find that there is nothing else present at all to investigate!

All there is, is wide open, clear, obvious presence-awareness itself. And that is not a limited person or entity. The conclusion must be that the person that we have taken ourselves to be is a complete myth because it is not findable in direct experience. And if it does not exist now, then it never existed in the past, nor will it ever exist in the future.

If the person is discovered as not real, not present, a mere unexamined assumption, then the root of all self-centered, conceptual thoughts, beliefs, habits, and attachments is severed. With this recognition, the interest in the self-centered stories fades naturally and effortlessly because there is no more belief in the reality of the central concept, the person. The thoughts and beliefs unwind and scatter like autumn leaves in the wind. There is no more belief in the fixed reference point of a self or a central character.

You simply remain as the open sky of awareness in which all thoughts arise and set untouched, spacious, clear and always unmodified. The tendency to fixate on or attach to thoughts dissipates. Seeing this, you cannot believe in self-centered thoughts, even if you want to, because the basic misconception has been undermined. You do not seek water in a mirage once it is known to be a mirage.

What about the nature of the world, the universe that presents itself to us? All that we can know is what appears to us in immediate experience. And that which appears (whether it be a thought, feeling, perception or any other experience) has no separate and independent existence apart from the awareness which cognizes it. Since awareness and objects always appear together, they must be the same in essence.

How many thoughts, feelings or perceptions can you have outside of awareness? They are inseparable. Everything that appears arises from, exists upon and returns into awareness. Even time, space and seeming external objects are present experiences contained in your knowing presence. There is nothing separate and apart from this ever. In fact, there is just this only this inescapable presence-awareness. You are that.

How do we live and function in the world? This is a false question because, as we have already seen, there is no one present who can live or function! At a practical level, all thoughts, feelings and actions go on without any reference to an imagined self-center or person. 'I' am not thinking, feeling, sensing, experiencing or acting because there is no 'I' present to do those things. Look at your thoughts right now. Is there an 'I' creating them? Or are they simply arising spontaneously? Surely the latter is the case. Do you have any idea what the next thought will be? If not, how can you say you created it?

If you say you are choosing, creating or controlling your thoughts, then why would you ever create an unhappy or troubling thought? So you see that thoughts simply appear. There is no person or self involved at all. The same goes for choices, decisions, feelings and actions. It is all happening spontaneously. So the question `How will I live my life?' is unnecessary. There is no 'you' to do anything at all. Things simply come up to be done. Life and its activities arise spontaneously and effortlessly from moment to moment in response to the demands of the situation and circumstances.

You can see all of these things directly, No special insight, awakening or enlightenment is needed. What is being pointed to is the natural condition of what is. We may have overlooked this, but it is not difficult to see. How could it be, when it is shining here in plain view? However, if necessary, you can review the basic points covered above and confirm them for yourself. Then the simple truth of your present natural state stands out very dearly right now. Before the next thought or experience appears you are already that natural and uncontrived presence-awareness itself.


... You Were Never Born ...
- John Wheeler -

Hi maxzprophet really good stuff these excerpts are outstanding please post more if you feel moved.

Agreed. Thanks for posting this.

[Deleted]

Here's a recent interview with Richard Miller