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Post by zendancer on Mar 6, 2015 11:53:20 GMT -5
Right, but it doesn't matter. Happy/unhappy are subjective, relative and mutually defining, which is why it is experienced as a roller coaster. I think you're imagining there is an absolute experience that we need to find. Experience is relative illusion. You don't know what happened because in the largest sense, nothing happened.What do you mean by largest sense nothing happened? why? Happenings are the way the mind interprets what is seen. If what is seen is an unfoldment, then discrete events are imagined. This is just another way of using words to point to the ineffability of isness. It is more efficacious to stop trying to imagine what's going on, and simply abide as awareness. Realizations and nonconceptual understandings tend to arise when the mind stops making an effort to understand things using reason and logic. Logic and reason have their place, but they are useless for grasping existential issues.
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Post by enigma on Mar 6, 2015 22:36:28 GMT -5
Right, but it doesn't matter. Happy/unhappy are subjective, relative and mutually defining, which is why it is experienced as a roller coaster. I think you're imagining there is an absolute experience that we need to find. Experience is relative illusion. You don't know what happened because in the largest sense, nothing happened.What do you mean by largest sense nothing happened? why? 'Happening' seems to imply an objective physical event.
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Post by tzujanli on Mar 7, 2015 7:03:55 GMT -5
What do you mean by largest sense nothing happened? why? 'Happening' seems to imply an objective physical event. Happening is the totality of what is 'happening'.. if you 'think' it seems limited to "an objective physical event", that's just 'your' beliefs filtering the awareness of what's happening..
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2015 19:48:53 GMT -5
Is that because the Jesus in Rumi realises that all his enemies are only ever in his head? I don't have an idea about why Rumi wrote so... I just accept the lines literally, in a (night) dream it happened to me also: I opened the door of a room (in my house) and found myself in a big garden. Fair enough... Cool dream. Did you walk out into the big garden, or did it assemble itself around you and the door that had been opened couldn't be seen anymore?
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Post by zin on Mar 8, 2015 9:44:47 GMT -5
I don't have an idea about why Rumi wrote so... I just accept the lines literally, in a (night) dream it happened to me also: I opened the door of a room (in my house) and found myself in a big garden. Fair enough... Cool dream. Did you walk out into the big garden, or did it assemble itself around you and the door that had been opened couldn't be seen anymore? It was more like the latter. I don't remember well about the door (if it was instantly left behind or disappeared) but it was like the scene 'opened' rather than 'I walked out into it'.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 9:48:04 GMT -5
What do you mean by largest sense nothing happened? why? 'Happening' seems to imply an objective physical event. What's being imagined in our consciousness is what we call happening(no matter whether it's objective or subjective), If you say nothing is happening since it's not objective, then it's funny. If you would like to say 'nothing happened' because objective universe doesn't exist, then I don't have any problem, but to me it doesn't make any sense.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 9:50:34 GMT -5
What do you mean by largest sense nothing happened? why? Happenings are the way the mind interprets what is seen. If what is seen is an unfoldment, then discrete events are imagined. This is just another way of using words to point to the ineffability of isness. It is more efficacious to stop trying to imagine what's going on, and simply abide as awareness. Realizations and nonconceptual understandings tend to arise when the mind stops making an effort to understand things using reason and logic. Logic and reason have their place, but they are useless for grasping existential issues. He means something, you mean something else.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 10:12:30 GMT -5
Yes, but you were saying you have had many happy/unhappy roller coaster in your life, but according to your truth, you can't know,right? Right, but it doesn't matter. Happy/unhappy are subjective, relative and mutually defining, which is why it is experienced as a roller coaster. I think you're imagining there is an absolute experience that we need to find. Experience is relative illusion. You don't know what happened because in the largest sense, nothing happened. You are not answering any of my question,I am not asking you why this roller coaster! I make it clear once again, you said: 1)We can't know what happened yesterday or we can't even know what has happened a movement ago. That being said, You can't know whether the book in your hand was written by another perspective in past can't be known by you. If so, why wouldn't you consider the same logic for your roller coaster? You can't know whether you were happy or unhappy in the past,Isn't it? but you consider the roller coaster movement is true, at the same time you are not considering the book was written by someone(other perspective). If you are right with your logic or idea, then you can't know happy/unhappy is the roller coaster or not,Isn't it? Would you adjust the knowledge according to your requirement?
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Post by enigma on Mar 9, 2015 8:31:05 GMT -5
'Happening' seems to imply an objective physical event. Happening is the totality of what is 'happening'.. if you 'think' it seems limited to "an objective physical event", that's just 'your' beliefs filtering the awareness of what's happening.. When you meet your bro on the street, and he asks 'Hey dude, what's happening?', do you say 'The totality of what is happening', or do you fill him in on the latest objective physical events in your life?
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Post by enigma on Mar 9, 2015 8:42:57 GMT -5
'Happening' seems to imply an objective physical event. What's being imagined in our consciousness is what we call happening(no matter whether it's objective or subjective), If you say nothing is happening since it's not objective, then it's funny. If you would like to say 'nothing happened' because objective universe doesn't exist, then I don't have any problem, but to me it doesn't make any sense. I didn't know 'happening' was so specific and controversial. I'll let you guys fight it out.
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Post by enigma on Mar 9, 2015 8:51:21 GMT -5
Happenings are the way the mind interprets what is seen. If what is seen is an unfoldment, then discrete events are imagined. This is just another way of using words to point to the ineffability of isness. It is more efficacious to stop trying to imagine what's going on, and simply abide as awareness. Realizations and nonconceptual understandings tend to arise when the mind stops making an effort to understand things using reason and logic. Logic and reason have their place, but they are useless for grasping existential issues. He means something, you mean something else. Same point. Events are imagined.
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Post by enigma on Mar 9, 2015 8:55:30 GMT -5
Right, but it doesn't matter. Happy/unhappy are subjective, relative and mutually defining, which is why it is experienced as a roller coaster. I think you're imagining there is an absolute experience that we need to find. Experience is relative illusion. You don't know what happened because in the largest sense, nothing happened. You are not answering any of my question,I am not asking you why this roller coaster! I make it clear once again, you said: 1)We can't know what happened yesterday or we can't even know what has happened a movement ago. That being said, You can't know whether the book in your hand was written by another perspective in past can't be known by you. If so, why wouldn't you consider the same logic for your roller coaster? You can't know whether you were happy or unhappy in the past,Isn't it? but you consider the roller coaster movement is true, at the same time you are not considering the book was written by someone(other perspective). If you are right with your logic or idea, then you can't know happy/unhappy is the roller coaster or not,Isn't it? Would you adjust the knowledge according to your requirement? "Right" means I agree with you. I guess you're not used to having me agree.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 8:58:37 GMT -5
You are not answering any of my question,I am not asking you why this roller coaster! I make it clear once again, you said: 1)We can't know what happened yesterday or we can't even know what has happened a movement ago. That being said, You can't know whether the book in your hand was written by another perspective in past can't be known by you. If so, why wouldn't you consider the same logic for your roller coaster? You can't know whether you were happy or unhappy in the past,Isn't it? but you consider the roller coaster movement is true, at the same time you are not considering the book was written by someone(other perspective). If you are right with your logic or idea, then you can't know happy/unhappy is the roller coaster or not,Isn't it? Would you adjust the knowledge according to your requirement? "Right" means I agree with you. I guess you're not used to having me agree. I am confused. If you say right, then why are you coming to the conclusion that happy/unhappy roller coaster? why aren't you coming to the conclusion book was written by something perspective? Or did I miss something of what you say?
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Post by tzujanli on Mar 9, 2015 19:51:16 GMT -5
Happening is the totality of what is 'happening'.. if you 'think' it seems limited to "an objective physical event", that's just 'your' beliefs filtering the awareness of what's happening.. When you meet your bro on the street, and he asks 'Hey dude, what's happening?', do you say 'The totality of what is happening', or do you fill him in on the latest objective physical events in your life? Honestly, i say: "i don't know, and i'm trying to keep it that way".. which is taken differently by different perspectives, and i enjoy the interactions that follow.. situation reveals the appropriate tone and body language, and the openness to explore what 'is' happening reveals itself much more than some of the forum ND advocates care to admit.. too often, spirituality and self-realization is measured by an experiencer's ability to say what the dominant 'belivers' want to hear, and the ability to play their game..
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 20:02:13 GMT -5
When you meet your bro on the street, and he asks 'Hey dude, what's happening?', do you say 'The totality of what is happening', or do you fill him in on the latest objective physical events in your life? Honestly, i say: "i don't know, and i'm trying to keep it that way".. which is taken differently by different perspectives, and i enjoy the interactions that follow.. situation reveals the appropriate tone and body language, and the openness to explore what 'is' happening reveals itself much more than some of the forum ND advocates care to admit.. too often, spirituality and self-realization is measured by an experiencer's ability to say what the dominant 'belivers' want to hear, and the ability to play their game.. What do you say if a friend says "Hi Bob, what have you been up to?"
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