|
Post by zin on Feb 7, 2015 5:01:45 GMT -5
Hi, I've been reading you for a while. I write now to ask advice about how to answer my (10 year old) daughter. Recently she asked "How do we talk to ourselves, I mean how does that voice talk in my head?"... I mumbled some things like "the brain... err.. some part of it.. tells... recorded words.. err.. the other part... listens" but she asked for a better explanation... I happened to be reading a psychology book for an exam, showed her some pictures (of dendrites, axons) but that didn't help either What can I tell her? Thanks. Note: I have only watched some videos from Adyashanti and Mooji, about nonduality.
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Feb 7, 2015 6:42:34 GMT -5
Not the easiest of questions eh!
There's a couple of things you could talk about which are related, though they might not directly answer the question. The biology of 'how' is beyond my knowledge though.
You could tell her that the whole body is alive and intelligent and is communicating information, that every cell of the body is in constant communication, and the area in the head is kind of like the focal point where the problem solving happens. For example, the stomach communicates hunger, and the talk in the head reflects that with something like...''what shall I eat''. In a nutshell, it's where 'conceiving', 'inspiration', 'creating' and 'interpreting' happens. It's where questions are asked of ourselves (and hence why life-coaches will often tell us to look closely at these questions).
You could also show her how the thoughts in the head and the body are connected (i.e one system) by showing her how holding the body in different postures changes the kind of thoughts that are arising. For example, a very confident pose will affect the mind, and a very slumped over depressed pose will affect the mind. You could also explore the way that feeling and thought are connected.
The other interesting thing you could explore or play with is 'eye movements'. For example, if we are asked a question such as 'what did your first car look like?', our eyes will shift to a particular position to answer the question and in the mind there will be a visual representation of the car. Similar, someone that is depressed will look down a lot and there is a reason for that. It all reveals that what's going on in the head is linked to our focus of attention, and ultimately our focus of attention is determined by our beliefs.
|
|
|
Post by tenka on Feb 7, 2015 8:04:40 GMT -5
The mind facilitates the process of self awareness . The thought that I exist, exists as a way of self identifying self as being present .
Beyond mind there is no sense that I am or anythings is .
Basically there is thought by design .
Has got nothing to do with the brain, mind to mind communication is not of our physical counterparts .
The thought acknowledgement is self's location of being present .
|
|
|
Post by runstill on Feb 7, 2015 9:53:24 GMT -5
Hi, I've been reading you for a while. I write now to ask advice about how to answer my (10 year old) daughter. Recently she asked "How do we talk to ourselves, I mean how does that voice talk in my head?"... I mumbled some things like "the brain... err.. some part of it.. tells... recorded words.. err.. the other part... listens" but she asked for a better explanation... I happened to be reading a psychology book for an exam, showed her some pictures (of dendrites, axons) but that didn't help either What can I tell her? Thanks. Note: I have only watched some videos from Adyashanti and Mooji, about nonduality. For the rest of her life society will be telling her how important it is to use her mind to think stuff through , figure things out, to believe the thoughts of others that cause more thoughts to arise , its like being on a infinite hamster wheel that few will get off. Tell her thoughts come and go but she is never the thought, tell her if she finds her self not having thoughts its her true nature , tell her no 'thought' can see what is seen without a 'thought'... she may surprise you!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2015 10:15:12 GMT -5
Hi, I've been reading you for a while. I write now to ask advice about how to answer my (10 year old) daughter. Recently she asked "How do we talk to ourselves, I mean how does that voice talk in my head?"... I mumbled some things like "the brain... err.. some part of it.. tells... recorded words.. err.. the other part... listens" but she asked for a better explanation... I happened to be reading a psychology book for an exam, showed her some pictures (of dendrites, axons) but that didn't help either What can I tell her? Thanks. Note: I have only watched some videos from Adyashanti and Mooji, about nonduality. For the rest of her life society will be telling her how important it is to use her mind to think stuff through , figure things out, to believe the thoughts of others that cause more thoughts to arise , its like being on a infinite hamster wheel that few will get off. Tell her thoughts come and go but she is never the thought, tell her if she finds her self not having thoughts its her true nature , tell her no 'thought' can see what is seen without a 'thought'... she may surprise you! Is the language of thoughts audible?
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Feb 7, 2015 12:30:17 GMT -5
Hi, I've been reading you for a while. I write now to ask advice about how to answer my (10 year old) daughter. Recently she asked "How do we talk to ourselves, I mean how does that voice talk in my head?"... I mumbled some things like "the brain... err.. some part of it.. tells... recorded words.. err.. the other part... listens" but she asked for a better explanation... I happened to be reading a psychology book for an exam, showed her some pictures (of dendrites, axons) but that didn't help either What can I tell her? Thanks. Note: I have only watched some videos from Adyashanti and Mooji, about nonduality. Hey zi.......this is an awesome question, awesome for her to ask. It's almost unanswerable. I'd say you almost don't want to answer it. The hardest part is that she's ten. I read this about three hours ago (four now). A few thoughts came to me. This was my last thought. (.......Oh........I'll get to what to say.....this is preliminary). She is like the bud of a rose, delicate. Probably to say less is to say more. You want to give her a means to answer the question for herself. My first thought was an iceberg. .......The whole of her-self is the iceberg. I was thinking, show her an ice cube in a bowl of water. The part above the water level is the voice talk in the head. ......Nope.....not for a ten year old. ........I thought of showing her a sports event on TV. The whole of her self is like the players on the field, the voice in her head is like the commentator describing the action on the field. The action happens and then there is the description. .........Nope again......not for a ten year old. ........Then I thought of showing her a dog (or cat), and then a picture of a dog and then show her to written word dog. (Ask her) which one is more real? The voice in her head is like the picture of the dog. ........But you can take that a little further. We think that the voice in the head is like the head of the dog, but it's not really. The voice in the head is more like the tail of the dog. (Do you know the expression, Wag the dog? This is the tail wagging the dog, an insignificant part being in control [thinking it's in control]. We think the voice in the head is in control, but it's not). .......Or, take a video of her. The voice in her head is like the video, it merely represents who she is. .........So, it's really very complicated. You want to keep it simple for her. You want to her to end up with the idea that ~ she~ is not the voice in the head. But it seems that she is already there........so what to say is difficult. ........Now, I have forgotten the answer I wanted to give..........I'm going to take a walk and maybe it will come back..........
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Feb 7, 2015 12:52:53 GMT -5
Hi, I've been reading you for a while. I write now to ask advice about how to answer my (10 year old) daughter. Recently she asked "How do we talk to ourselves, I mean how does that voice talk in my head?"... I mumbled some things like "the brain... err.. some part of it.. tells... recorded words.. err.. the other part... listens" but she asked for a better explanation... I happened to be reading a psychology book for an exam, showed her some pictures (of dendrites, axons) but that didn't help either What can I tell her? Thanks. Note: I have only watched some videos from Adyashanti and Mooji, about nonduality. We can't know that thoughts are happening unless we are 'watching' from outside the thoughts. From that position, we can 'listen'. It can be deceiving because we typically identify ourselves as the thinker rather than the observer, and the thinker would not be able to step away from the thinking in order to observe the process. The average adult doesn't see a conflict with the idea of the thinker observing/hearing his own thoughts because he's learned to just accept that idea, but a child might notice a problem with it. The simple answer is, you are the observer and mind is talking to you. You are not the movement of mind, but rather the witness to that movement.
|
|
|
Post by silver on Feb 7, 2015 14:43:49 GMT -5
It's not much worse than 'why is the sky blue?' -- I would tell her that it's one of the many mysteries of life, and maybe when she gets older, she'll understand why it's a hard question to respond to. Tell her she's one smart cookie...then smile and give her a hug.
|
|
|
Post by zin on Feb 7, 2015 16:58:35 GMT -5
Not the easiest of questions eh! There's a couple of things you could talk about which are related, though they might not directly answer the question. The biology of 'how' is beyond my knowledge though. You could tell her that the whole body is alive and intelligent and is communicating information, that every cell of the body is in constant communication, and the area in the head is kind of like the focal point where the problem solving happens. For example, the stomach communicates hunger, and the talk in the head reflects that with something like...''what shall I eat''. In a nutshell, it's where 'conceiving', 'inspiration', 'creating' and 'interpreting' happens. It's where questions are asked of ourselves (and hence why life-coaches will often tell us to look closely at these questions). You could also show her how the thoughts in the head and the body are connected (i.e one system) by showing her how holding the body in different postures changes the kind of thoughts that are arising. For example, a very confident pose will affect the mind, and a very slumped over depressed pose will affect the mind. You could also explore the way that feeling and thought are connected. The other interesting thing you could explore or play with is 'eye movements'. For example, if we are asked a question such as 'what did your first car look like?', our eyes will shift to a particular position to answer the question and in the mind there will be a visual representation of the car. Similar, someone that is depressed will look down a lot and there is a reason for that. It all reveals that what's going on in the head is linked to our focus of attention, and ultimately our focus of attention is determined by our beliefs. Thanks Andrew. These ages look like verbal storm days; she is writing books, taking videos, making presentations at school, etc etc.. I find your pointing to body a good idea, a balancing one.
|
|
|
Post by zin on Feb 7, 2015 17:03:05 GMT -5
The mind facilitates the process of self awareness . The thought that I exist, exists as a way of self identifying self as being present . Beyond mind there is no sense that I am or anythings is . Basically there is thought by design . Has got nothing to do with the brain, mind to mind communication is not of our physical counterparts . The thought acknowledgement is self's location of being present . Thanks. That seems a bit complicated (to me) though Do you say head talk has nothing to do with brain?
|
|
|
Post by zin on Feb 7, 2015 17:12:42 GMT -5
For the rest of her life society will be telling her how important it is to use her mind to think stuff through , figure things out, to believe the thoughts of others that cause more thoughts to arise , its like being on a infinite hamster wheel that few will get off. Tell her thoughts come and go but she is never the thought, tell her if she finds her self not having thoughts its her true nature , tell her no 'thought' can see what is seen without a 'thought'... she may surprise you! I agree to "for the rest of her life..." part I try to have some time in nature, etc with her, some no-thought time. Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by zin on Feb 7, 2015 17:23:34 GMT -5
Hey zi.......this is an awesome question, awesome for her to ask. It's almost unanswerable. I'd say you almost don't want to answer it. The hardest part is that she's ten. I read this about three hours ago (four now). A few thoughts came to me. This was my last thought. (.......Oh........I'll get to what to say.....this is preliminary). She is like the bud of a rose, delicate. Probably to say less is to say more. You want to give her a means to answer the question for herself. My first thought was an iceberg. .......The whole of her-self is the iceberg. I was thinking, show her an ice cube in a bowl of water. The part above the water level is the voice talk in the head. ......Nope.....not for a ten year old. ........I thought of showing her a sports event on TV. The whole of her self is like the players on the field, the voice in her head is like the commentator describing the action on the field. The action happens and then there is the description. .........Nope again......not for a ten year old. ........Then I thought of showing her a dog (or cat), and then a picture of a dog and then show her to written word dog. (Ask her) which one is more real? The voice in her head is like the picture of the dog. ........But you can take that a little further. We think that the voice in the head is like the head of the dog, but it's not really. The voice in the head is more like the tail of the dog. (Do you know the expression, Wag the dog? This is the tail wagging the dog, an insignificant part being in control [thinking it's in control]. We think the voice in the head is in control, but it's not). .......Or, take a video of her. The voice in her head is like the video, it merely represents who she is. .........So, it's really very complicated. You want to keep it simple for her. You want to her to end up with the idea that ~ she~ is not the voice in the head. But it seems that she is already there........so what to say is difficult. ........Now, I have forgotten the answer I wanted to give..........I'm going to take a walk and maybe it will come back.......... "The whole of her-self is the iceberg." "Nope.....not for a ten year old.": Yes, and God knows I don't want to talk about 'self' at all Later in the day I said that sometimes I don't hear that voice, she asked 'when?', I said for example while playing with the street cats.. She said "Yes, there ARE silent times! ", but in a very sincere way, a different way.. So, yes, I think maybe I shouldn't talk about it much. Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by zin on Feb 7, 2015 17:31:20 GMT -5
We can't know that thoughts are happening unless we are 'watching' from outside the thoughts. From that position, we can 'listen'. It can be deceiving because we typically identify ourselves as the thinker rather than the observer, and the thinker would not be able to step away from the thinking in order to observe the process. The average adult doesn't see a conflict with the idea of the thinker observing/hearing his own thoughts because he's learned to just accept that idea, but a child might notice a problem with it. The simple answer is, you are the observer and mind is talking to you. You are not the movement of mind, but rather the witness to that movement. I am the average adult. Do you think all noticing of thoughts is done by the observer? I ask because observer is a new concept for me. I want to understand a bit better before I use it in a talk. Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by zin on Feb 7, 2015 17:37:00 GMT -5
It's not much worse than 'why is the sky blue?' -- I would tell her that it's one of the many mysteries of life, and maybe when she gets older, she'll understand why it's a hard question to respond to. Tell her she's one smart cookie...then smile and give her a hug. Thanks silver, yes, I did something similar
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Feb 7, 2015 20:24:46 GMT -5
Hey zi.......this is an awesome question, awesome for her to ask. It's almost unanswerable. I'd say you almost don't want to answer it. The hardest part is that she's ten. I read this about three hours ago (four now). A few thoughts came to me. This was my last thought. (.......Oh........I'll get to what to say.....this is preliminary). She is like the bud of a rose, delicate. Probably to say less is to say more. You want to give her a means to answer the question for herself. My first thought was an iceberg. .......The whole of her-self is the iceberg. I was thinking, show her an ice cube in a bowl of water. The part above the water level is the voice talk in the head. ......Nope.....not for a ten year old. ........I thought of showing her a sports event on TV. The whole of her self is like the players on the field, the voice in her head is like the commentator describing the action on the field. The action happens and then there is the description. .........Nope again......not for a ten year old. ........Then I thought of showing her a dog (or cat), and then a picture of a dog and then show her to written word dog. (Ask her) which one is more real? The voice in her head is like the picture of the dog. ........But you can take that a little further. We think that the voice in the head is like the head of the dog, but it's not really. The voice in the head is more like the tail of the dog. (Do you know the expression, Wag the dog? This is the tail wagging the dog, an insignificant part being in control [thinking it's in control]. We think the voice in the head is in control, but it's not). .......Or, take a video of her. The voice in her head is like the video, it merely represents who she is. .........So, it's really very complicated. You want to keep it simple for her. You want to her to end up with the idea that ~ she~ is not the voice in the head. But it seems that she is already there........so what to say is difficult. ........Now, I have forgotten the answer I wanted to give..........I'm going to take a walk and maybe it will come back.......... "The whole of her-self is the iceberg." "Nope.....not for a ten year old." Hey zi.....I didn't understand your response? ? [edit: I just now understood what you said, Nope, this is not information for a ten year old.........I'll keep the post anyway..... I thought you were saying that for a ten year old, the whole of her-self is not the iceberg..... {that's me, not you}. ] I probably wasn't clear enough. I was just trying to make an analogy between self and iceberg. There is much about ourselves that we do not know about and do not understand. I'm say the whole of self is the whole iceberg. Let's say the part we can see and experience as thoughts, feelings and actions, is the part above water, the part we can see above water. So, the parts underneath the skin is represented by the part of the iceberg below the level of the water. So what is taking place under the skin? You eat food to supply energy for all the functions of the body. The stomach and the digestive system turn the energy in the food into a form the body can use. The body also needs oxygen to "burn" the fuel of food. Your heart is pumping blood throughout the body. The blood is supplying energy for all the cells of the body to do their job, or the raw materials to create the necessary energy. We are always replacing cellular structure with new building materials, for example, protein, amino acids. So the blood brings new building materials and takes away the old material. The kidneys takes away the liquid nasty stuff, the intestines take away some of the nasty stuff. Blood picks up oxygen from the lungs to take throughout the body. What is the waste product of the body concerning air? Carbon dioxide. We take in oxygen and from our metabolism, we eliminate carbon dioxide. (This is the reverse process of plants, which utilize carbon dioxide and give off oxygen from their metabolic process. So, plants and animals form a process of one hand washing the other). Also, the brain needs a certain quality and quantity of energy as fuel to function, glucose. You can't think, feel or do anything without the requisite fuel. OK, that's enough for you to get the picture (it would take plus four years of medical school to get a glimpse of the whole picture). All of that is taking place under the skin of your daughter......and she will know nothing about it unless she studies the process some day. All that is hidden. What your daughter knows is what she can see the body doing and what she thinks, feels. I'm saying that's the part of the iceberg above water. And then the voice in her head is only a very tiny part of all that. .......What I wanted to say hasn't come back yet........it had to do with a way to point out for herself, so that she could see for herself what's going on.......... ............................................. But from a nondual standpoint, much more is going on. The following is the sense I am a non-dualist. Where does the energy come from that we use every day as fuel for the body? It comes from the sun. In the center of the sun hydrogen is being transformed into helium, the result of the process is light in the form of gamma rays, which are deadly to us. The light from the sun started its journey 100,000 million years ago from the center of the sun. It bounces around for 100,000 years in trying to reach the surface of the sun. In the process the deadly gamma rays are turned into photons. When a photon reaches the surface of the sun and leaves the sun it then takes eight minutes to reach the earth. And then through photosynthesis the photons are turned to chemical energy by plants. We then can eat the plants or eat animals who eat the plants. .......But then there would be no earth without the sun, and there would be no sun without being a part of the galaxy. And you could study thousands of facts from the standpoint of physics that make human beings possible, taking away one you have no human beings. This is called the Anthropic Principle, or the nonscientific name, the Goldilocks universe (not too "hard", not to "soft", but just right). Chuang Tzu expressed this idea over 2000 years ago. He said that when you walk across the ground, your feet touch only a small part of the earth, but the tons and tons of dirt underneath the part you walk on is what makes walking possible. Likewise, The Anthropic Principle tells us there are about twenty constants in physics which if any one were just a tiny fraction different, life would not be possible.
|
|