Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2013 16:10:31 GMT -5
How so? Are you saying something similar to what I'm saying - that the impetus is the same? See, it seems to me that life wants to express itself cleanly. In its pure form. And when that expression gets confused or muddied, it creates a dissonance. Dissonance wants to be resolved. Seems like that's a natural movement like water finding its own level. Hmm. I'm not so sure. Expression of life in its pure form includes not just happiness but unhappiness. Not just consciousness but unconsciousness. Not just beauty but ugliness. Not just good but bad. Not just light but dark. Not just right but wrong. On and on... so when you say that expression gets "confused and muddied" are you rejecting the other half of the equation of life? Does dissonance want to be resolved, or is dissonance how life expresses itself? Is it the individual who wants it to be resolved, because the individual doesn't like such suffering to happen to him or her? Dissonance is how resonance knows itself. As in, without dissonance, resonance would have no knowable, or recognizable feeling or acute vibration.
|
|
|
Post by silence on Sept 18, 2013 16:12:58 GMT -5
How so? Are you saying something similar to what I'm saying - that the impetus is the same? See, it seems to me that life wants to express itself cleanly. In its pure form. And when that expression gets confused or muddied, it creates a dissonance. Dissonance wants to be resolved. Seems like that's a natural movement like water finding its own level. Hmm. I'm not so sure. Expression of life in its pure form includes not just happiness but unhappiness. Not just consciousness but unconsciousness. Not just beauty but ugliness. Not just good but bad. Not just light but dark. Not just right but wrong. On and on... so when you say that expression gets "confused and muddied" are you rejecting the other half of the equation of life? Does dissonance want to be resolved, or is dissonance how life expresses itself? Is it the individual who wants it to be resolved, because the individual doesn't like such suffering to happen to him or her? What seems to happen for most is that happiness like most ideas becomes objectified and then sought after. Realistically all that's ever happening is a vast array of ways that people create unhappiness. The search for happiness is a diversion from clearly recognizing how you make yourself miserable and to stop doing those things. Ironically, one of the main ways you make yourself unhappy is to search for happiness.
|
|
|
Post by quinn on Sept 18, 2013 16:26:08 GMT -5
How so? Are you saying something similar to what I'm saying - that the impetus is the same? See, it seems to me that life wants to express itself cleanly. In its pure form. And when that expression gets confused or muddied, it creates a dissonance. Dissonance wants to be resolved. Seems like that's a natural movement like water finding its own level. Hmm. I'm not so sure. Expression of life in its pure form includes not just happiness but unhappiness. Not just consciousness but unconsciousness. Not just beauty but ugliness. Not just good but bad. Not just light but dark. Not just right but wrong. On and on... so when you say that expression gets "confused and muddied" are you rejecting the other half of the equation of life? Does dissonance want to be resolved, or is dissonance how life expresses itself? Is it the individual who wants it to be resolved, because the individual doesn't like such suffering to happen to him or her? Yeah, since we're talking about 'expressing' here - you're right. I don't mean a lack of dissonance equates to bliss or unending happiness. I'm referring to something more subtle - maybe dissonance isn't a good word to use. I mean it in the sense of dissatisfaction or struggle. Doesn't have to be a big struggle, although it could be. It could be a very subtle underlying sense that something is off. Life expressing itself includes heartbreak and pain and giddiness and loss and all sorts of human stuff. When they're experience cleanly, without that struggle - no dissonance. When they're not, the dissonance can be noticed.
|
|
|
Post by serpentqueen on Sept 18, 2013 20:28:05 GMT -5
Hmm. I'm not so sure. Expression of life in its pure form includes not just happiness but unhappiness. Not just consciousness but unconsciousness. Not just beauty but ugliness. Not just good but bad. Not just light but dark. Not just right but wrong. On and on... so when you say that expression gets "confused and muddied" are you rejecting the other half of the equation of life? Does dissonance want to be resolved, or is dissonance how life expresses itself? Is it the individual who wants it to be resolved, because the individual doesn't like such suffering to happen to him or her? Dissonance is how resonance knows itself. As in, without dissonance, resonance would have no knowable, or recognizable feeling or acute vibration.And without resonance, dissonance would also not know itself.
|
|
|
Post by serpentqueen on Sept 18, 2013 20:35:49 GMT -5
Hmm. I'm not so sure. Expression of life in its pure form includes not just happiness but unhappiness. Not just consciousness but unconsciousness. Not just beauty but ugliness. Not just good but bad. Not just light but dark. Not just right but wrong. On and on... so when you say that expression gets "confused and muddied" are you rejecting the other half of the equation of life? Does dissonance want to be resolved, or is dissonance how life expresses itself? Is it the individual who wants it to be resolved, because the individual doesn't like such suffering to happen to him or her? What seems to happen for most is that happiness like most ideas becomes objectified and then sought after. Realistically all that's ever happening is a vast array of ways that people create unhappiness. The search for happiness is a diversion from clearly recognizing how you make yourself miserable and to stop doing those things. Ironically, one of the main ways you make yourself unhappy is to search for happiness. I loved your other post, about how it is total insanity. I agree with that. I agree with this post too, but it's still missing something. You can recognize all this and still be unhappy, no? You can accept unhappiness and be okay. You can drop "you" and then it's a lot easier. Unhappiness still happens. Acceptance may not. But it's all still okay, because .. freedom & alive. Does that make sense or am I talking out my a$$?
|
|
|
Post by serpentqueen on Sept 18, 2013 20:39:17 GMT -5
Hmm. I'm not so sure. Expression of life in its pure form includes not just happiness but unhappiness. Not just consciousness but unconsciousness. Not just beauty but ugliness. Not just good but bad. Not just light but dark. Not just right but wrong. On and on... so when you say that expression gets "confused and muddied" are you rejecting the other half of the equation of life? Does dissonance want to be resolved, or is dissonance how life expresses itself? Is it the individual who wants it to be resolved, because the individual doesn't like such suffering to happen to him or her? Yeah, since we're talking about 'expressing' here - you're right. I don't mean a lack of dissonance equates to bliss or unending happiness. I'm referring to something more subtle - maybe dissonance isn't a good word to use. I mean it in the sense of dissatisfaction or struggle. Doesn't have to be a big struggle, although it could be. It could be a very subtle underlying sense that something is off. Life expressing itself includes heartbreak and pain and giddiness and loss and all sorts of human stuff. When they're experience cleanly, without that struggle - no dissonance. When they're not, the dissonance can be noticed. What do you mean by that (the part I bolded)? Can you extrapolate?
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Sept 18, 2013 20:54:41 GMT -5
How so? Are you saying something similar to what I'm saying - that the impetus is the same? See, it seems to me that life wants to express itself cleanly. In its pure form. And when that expression gets confused or muddied, it creates a dissonance. Dissonance wants to be resolved. Seems like that's a natural movement like water finding its own level. Hmm. I'm not so sure. Expression of life in its pure form includes not just happiness but unhappiness. Not just consciousness but unconsciousness. Not just beauty but ugliness. Not just good but bad. Not just light but dark. Not just right but wrong. On and on... so when you say that expression gets "confused and muddied" are you rejecting the other half of the equation of life? Does dissonance want to be resolved, or is dissonance how life expresses itself? Is it the individual who wants it to be resolved, because the individual doesn't like such suffering to happen to him or her? Right, the dissonance is actually what moves life toward consonance because the individual is motivated toward resolution of the dissonance. This can be a glimpse at the often maligned perfection. Life is just lifing away and has no concern about dissonance.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Sept 18, 2013 20:56:19 GMT -5
Hmm. I'm not so sure. Expression of life in its pure form includes not just happiness but unhappiness. Not just consciousness but unconsciousness. Not just beauty but ugliness. Not just good but bad. Not just light but dark. Not just right but wrong. On and on... so when you say that expression gets "confused and muddied" are you rejecting the other half of the equation of life? Does dissonance want to be resolved, or is dissonance how life expresses itself? Is it the individual who wants it to be resolved, because the individual doesn't like such suffering to happen to him or her? What seems to happen for most is that happiness like most ideas becomes objectified and then sought after. Realistically all that's ever happening is a vast array of ways that people create unhappiness. The search for happiness is a diversion from clearly recognizing how you make yourself miserable and to stop doing those things. Ironically, one of the main ways you make yourself unhappy is to search for happiness. Yup, yup.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Sept 18, 2013 21:00:41 GMT -5
What seems to happen for most is that happiness like most ideas becomes objectified and then sought after. Realistically all that's ever happening is a vast array of ways that people create unhappiness. The search for happiness is a diversion from clearly recognizing how you make yourself miserable and to stop doing those things. Ironically, one of the main ways you make yourself unhappy is to search for happiness. I loved your other post, about how it is total insanity. I agree with that. I agree with this post too, but it's still missing something. You can recognize all this and still be unhappy, no? You can accept unhappiness and be okay. You can drop "you" and then it's a lot easier. Unhappiness still happens. Acceptance may not. But it's all still okay, because .. freedom & alive. Does that make sense or am I talking out my a$$? If you create unhappiness, then which one makes more sense?: 1) accept the unhappiness that you create. 2) Stop creating unhappiness.
|
|
|
Post by serpentqueen on Sept 18, 2013 21:41:06 GMT -5
I loved your other post, about how it is total insanity. I agree with that. I agree with this post too, but it's still missing something. You can recognize all this and still be unhappy, no? You can accept unhappiness and be okay. You can drop "you" and then it's a lot easier. Unhappiness still happens. Acceptance may not. But it's all still okay, because .. freedom & alive. Does that make sense or am I talking out my a$$? If you create unhappiness, then which one makes more sense?: 1) accept the unhappiness that you create. 2) Stop creating unhappiness. I guess I am talking about the stuff beyond the "you" creating unhappiness. Unhappiness still happens. Acceptance is a lot easier, when there is no you to blame it on. My point is that .. unhappiness will still happen. It's just not created by "you" nor happening to "you." In which case, your question is misconceived, is it not?
|
|
|
Post by silence on Sept 18, 2013 22:14:39 GMT -5
What seems to happen for most is that happiness like most ideas becomes objectified and then sought after. Realistically all that's ever happening is a vast array of ways that people create unhappiness. The search for happiness is a diversion from clearly recognizing how you make yourself miserable and to stop doing those things. Ironically, one of the main ways you make yourself unhappy is to search for happiness. I loved your other post, about how it is total insanity. I agree with that. I agree with this post too, but it's still missing something. You can recognize all this and still be unhappy, no? You can accept unhappiness and be okay. You can drop "you" and then it's a lot easier. Unhappiness still happens. Acceptance may not. But it's all still okay, because .. freedom & alive. Does that make sense or am I talking out my a$$? I'd say you can't accept unhappiness. It's simply more insanity as you try to be okay with not being okay. In order for that to seem possible it requires that you see the cause of your unhappiness originating outside of yourself. From that simple misperception, thought then appears to be intelligently responding to develop coping techniques and practices to make your life more joyful and bearable. Can you explain what you mean by "You can drop "you" and then it's a lot easier"?
|
|
|
Post by silence on Sept 18, 2013 22:16:40 GMT -5
If you create unhappiness, then which one makes more sense?: 1) accept the unhappiness that you create. 2) Stop creating unhappiness. I guess I am talking about the stuff beyond the "you" creating unhappiness. Unhappiness still happens. Acceptance is a lot easier, when there is no you to blame it on. My point is that .. unhappiness will still happen. It's just not created by "you" nor happening to "you." In which case, your question is misconceived, is it not? There is nothing else beyond that judgmental movement of thought creating unhappiness. Sadness, pain and all other events are not inherently a cause of being unhappy.
|
|
|
Post by Beingist on Sept 18, 2013 23:37:57 GMT -5
I guess I am talking about the stuff beyond the "you" creating unhappiness. Unhappiness still happens. Acceptance is a lot easier, when there is no you to blame it on. My point is that .. unhappiness will still happen. It's just not created by "you" nor happening to "you." In which case, your question is misconceived, is it not? There is nothing else beyond that judgmental movement of thought creating unhappiness. Sadness, pain and all other events are not inherently a cause of being unhappy. Absolutely yes to the bold.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Sept 19, 2013 1:22:57 GMT -5
If you create unhappiness, then which one makes more sense?: 1) accept the unhappiness that you create. 2) Stop creating unhappiness. I guess I am talking about the stuff beyond the "you" creating unhappiness. Unhappiness still happens. Acceptance is a lot easier, when there is no you to blame it on. My point is that .. unhappiness will still happen. It's just not created by "you" nor happening to "you." In which case, your question is misconceived, is it not? Unhappiness is the result of not being okay with whatever. It makes no sense to try to be okay with not being okay. Would you say that if you're not okay with not being okay, you could still be okay with that?
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Sept 19, 2013 1:30:38 GMT -5
I guess I am talking about the stuff beyond the "you" creating unhappiness. Unhappiness still happens. Acceptance is a lot easier, when there is no you to blame it on. My point is that .. unhappiness will still happen. It's just not created by "you" nor happening to "you." In which case, your question is misconceived, is it not? There is nothing else beyond that judgmental movement of thought creating unhappiness. Sadness, pain and all other events are not inherently a cause of being unhappy. Right, I've tried before to talk about the difference between feelings and suffering, and I don't think I got any takers.
|
|