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Post by Reefs on Sept 16, 2013 4:45:13 GMT -5
You mean in the context of the quote? Yes. If you take happiness as the conceptual version of your natural state, then yes.
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Post by Reefs on Sept 16, 2013 4:54:36 GMT -5
What if that search is misconceived? I don't think that's a possibility. If you take 'conceived' to mean born of, like the seed of something - then misconceived means that the original seed of that desire to search was wrong. Of course, it's not. Besides, that would render the whole quote misconceived The search is the search, and it's exactly what needs to happen when it does. It can go astray, but it can never be misconceived. That's an interesting way of looking at it. I don't like the word 'need' there. Sounds better when you leave it out. If there would be no misconception, would there still be a search? Here's another quote from Papaji: So when you know that you are not just at home but home itself, what could trigger that search for home?
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Post by quinn on Sept 16, 2013 5:11:53 GMT -5
I don't think that's a possibility. If you take 'conceived' to mean born of, like the seed of something - then misconceived means that the original seed of that desire to search was wrong. Of course, it's not. Besides, that would render the whole quote misconceived The search is the search, and it's exactly what needs to happen when it does. It can go astray, but it can never be misconceived. That's an interesting way of looking at it. I don't like the word 'need' there. Sounds better when you leave it out. If there would be no misconception, would there still be a search? Here's another quote from Papaji: So when you know that you are not just at home but home itself, what could trigger that search for home? The search is a search for that knowing. To answer your last question, there would be no search. What I like about the original quote is that it recognizes and gives respect to the search, while at the same time giving a bit of orientation. Like - yes, your urge to search is telling you something, but don't look out there for happiness. Look at the urge itself. Find out what that's about. The word "need" is from the perspective of the searcher. As long as there's a searcher, there's a need.
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Post by Reefs on Sept 16, 2013 6:38:33 GMT -5
The search is a search for that knowing. The search is in the realm of the conceptual. The knowing that you are home, is not conceptual. So the search cannot give you that knowing since that knowing is non-conceptual. The best you can do is going for happiness (which requires effort). The natural state (which requires no effort) cannot be attained. Yup, no-brainer. Funny, my focus was on the happiness part in the original quote. Yes, personal growth path.
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Post by quinn on Sept 16, 2013 7:32:57 GMT -5
The search is a search for that knowing. The search is in the realm of the conceptual. The knowing that you are home, is not conceptual. So the search cannot give you that knowing since that knowing is non-conceptual. The best you can do is going for happiness (which requires effort). The natural state (which requires no effort) cannot be attained. There isn't a black and white delineation between the conceptual and the non-conceptual in the sense that all arises from emptiness. They are two aspects of the same thing. So 'the search', while it's in the realm of the conceptual, is an emanation from what you're calling the non-conceptual. Everything is. As long as the search stays in the conceptual, yes - it's a merry-go-round ride. But it can't stay there forever. The pressure gets greater and greater and there comes a point where (as many have noticed) we're no longer chasing something, it's chasing us. I know, the 'something' isn't a thing, but I hope you get my drift. If it can be recognized that the search is for what is searching, then it has done its job. Haha. Funny how that works! What was your take on the happiness part? Yes, need does kind of infer an 'adding on' is what's being sought. If it can be understood that subtraction is the best version of searching, that can be helpful. Searching for an undoing. That, ultimately, is fruitless too, but I think it can bring one to the edge of the cliff. Maybe. Haha!
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Post by Reefs on Sept 16, 2013 8:09:16 GMT -5
There isn't a black and white delineation between the conceptual and the non-conceptual in the sense that all arises from emptiness. They are two aspects of the same thing. So 'the search', while it's in the realm of the conceptual, is an emanation from what you're calling the non-conceptual. Everything is. There's no need here to proclaim that there is no need to delineate clearly. That's what it means to finally have come around fully. Only when the need to proclaim that there is no need has been released we can freely delineate in black/white without twilight zones. Yes, when the pressure becomes unbearable we drift out of this physical experience straight into the non-physical and continue the search in the astral worlds. That can be questioned. The search for happiness is the highest goal there is. If meditation doesn't make you happy then go an get yourself a Maserati if that will do the trick. There's no merit in torturing yourself with meditation if it doesn't come natural just because some internet keyboard commando says it would achieve something. Yes, the spiritual search tends to be a real cliff hanger sometimes.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2013 8:31:42 GMT -5
"Our search for happiness is an unconscious search for our true Self." Papaji How is this different than "you are what you seek"? A bit more fleshy.
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Post by laughter on Sept 16, 2013 8:31:44 GMT -5
If you take happiness as the conceptual version of your natural state, then yes. Another take on it would be that the misconception begins where the unconsciousness ends ... not that there's anything wrong with that!
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Post by laughter on Sept 16, 2013 8:32:50 GMT -5
"Our search for happiness is an unconscious search for our true Self." Papaji How is this different than "you are what you seek"? A bit more fleshy. Ties in happiness and seeking consciously or not.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2013 8:35:30 GMT -5
If you take happiness as the conceptual version of your natural state, then yes. Another take on it would be that the misconception begins where the unconsciousness ends ... not that there's anything wrong with that! I'm thinking the misconception starts at the same place as unconsciousness. If we're lucky we can find a misconception, which is the tip of the iceberg, most of it unconscious/underwater. One tip I'm exploring at the very moment, is a hasty turning away from confusion.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2013 8:37:56 GMT -5
How is this different than "you are what you seek"? A bit more fleshy. Ties in happiness and seeking consciously or not. Ah yes, the Maserati.
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Post by laughter on Sept 16, 2013 8:40:55 GMT -5
Another take on it would be that the misconception begins where the unconsciousness ends ... not that there's anything wrong with that! I'm thinking the misconception starts at the same place as unconsciousness. If we're lucky we can find a misconception, which is the tip of the iceberg, most of it unconscious/underwater. One tip I'm exploring at the very moment, is a hasty turning away from confusion. Not like you're missing anything in the turning! -- the internal narrative: "but! but! ..." ha! ha!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2013 8:44:04 GMT -5
I'm thinking the misconception starts at the same place as unconsciousness. If we're lucky we can find a misconception, which is the tip of the iceberg, most of it unconscious/underwater. One tip I'm exploring at the very moment, is a hasty turning away from confusion. Not like you're missing anything in the turning! -- the internal narrative: "but! but! ..." ha! ha! I'm thinking sticking with confusion a bit longer, soaking in the accompanying discomfort rather than striking out for clearer horizons, might be fruitful in some way.
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Post by laughter on Sept 16, 2013 8:56:37 GMT -5
Not like you're missing anything in the turning! -- the internal narrative: "but! but! ..." ha! ha! I'm thinking sticking with confusion a bit longer, soaking in the accompanying discomfort rather than striking out for clearer horizons, might be fruitful in some way. Are we talking about just a sort of general overall feeling of confusion or something specific with one or more conceptual focal points?
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Post by enigma on Sept 16, 2013 8:59:14 GMT -5
What if that search is misconceived? I don't think that's a possibility. If you take 'conceived' to mean born of, like the seed of something - then misconceived means that the original seed of that desire to search was wrong. Of course, it's not. Besides, that would render the whole quote misconceived The search is the search, and it's exactly what needs to happen when it does. It can go astray, but it can never be misconceived. It means the search is based on a misconception; an erroneous idea.
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