sound
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Post by sound on Jul 26, 2013 9:35:40 GMT -5
Age-old discussion it seems, in certain circles ... to what end does it serve to deny the validity of our person-hood? I am looking forward to all the 'personal expressions' which I 'unashamedly assume' will be forthcoming, with great fervor.
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Post by topology on Jul 26, 2013 10:16:47 GMT -5
Age-old discussion it seems, in certain circles ... to what end does it serve to deny the validity of our person-hood? I am looking forward to all the 'personal expressions' which I 'unashamedly assume' will be forthcoming, with great fervor. Hi Sound, I wouldn't call it denying the validity of personhood so much as seeing into the nature of personhood which has a tremendous impact on that personhood. Enigma talks about there being no separate volitional person, which is not to say that there is not a non-separate "volitional" appearance of a person. Growing up through childhood the mind tries to figure out who "I am" is. The child sees everyone else talking about their stories and is encouraged to buy into those stories and cultivate it's own story about itself. Soon that story is emotionally attached to and it becomes the vehicle through which the individual relates to their whole experience. While the story slowly evolves over time, too much change leads to emotional and existential turmoil, so threats to the story are defended against and often the best defense is a good offense. It is sobering to see how much people are engaged into story telling without realizing fundamentally that it is just a story. People get trapped in their stories and try to trap others in stories. Personhood is a story we tell. It is highly functional for making the world go round, but it can get highly dysfunctional as well when we attach to a particular story. Personhood is not being denied, that would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater as it is a highly functional way of operating in the world. But its nature must be understood and we must realize that ultimately we are not the stories we tell if we want to find any real sense of peace, freedom, and effective functionality.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2013 10:26:54 GMT -5
Age-old discussion it seems, in certain circles ... to what end does it serve to deny the validity of our person-hood? I am looking forward to all the 'personal expressions' which I 'unashamedly assume' will be forthcoming, with great fervor. If there is a perception of the denial of person-hood then that's what's happening... And if there are perceptions of 'personal expressions' coming forward, that too is what's happening... You are the perceiver of perceptions and not the perceptions... This response is also a perception for you, and it's also what's happening...
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Post by laughter on Jul 26, 2013 10:34:14 GMT -5
Age-old discussion it seems, in certain circles ... to what end does it serve to deny the validity of our person-hood? I am looking forward to all the 'personal expressions' which I 'unashamedly assume' will be forthcoming, with great fervor. Picture a spinning yin-yang wheel: the personal and the impersonal are one of those polarities that create one another. There is a question here: what is nature of the relationship between these polarities? This question has no satisfactory conceptual answer ... when the interest is gone the matter has been seen through.
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Post by andrew on Jul 26, 2013 10:45:43 GMT -5
I kinda like what Top said.
I would say that many people go through lives thinking that the story of who they are IS solely who they are...I am Andrew, I am 38, I live in London, I am married, 2 kids etc. And it goes beyond that to our likes and our dislikes, our biases and desires and preferences and memories...all the experiences we've ever had really.
And I would say that its true that none of this stuff is apart or separate from who we are. Last week I listened to a friend on the radio, I hadn't heard his voice in about 20 years, and there was a sense of joy at hearing his voice again. That's all part of being a person. But then equally, if I am holding a grudge against someone for 20 years, then that is part of being a person too!
I would also say its true that our experiences and our story are not ALL that we are. there is something about us that is more than just the experiences we have had in our life, we are more than just our story....we are more than our likes and dislikes, our desires, biases and preferences and memories. We are more than just this life experience. And personally, I feel there is value in getting in touch with this 'something more'. In the simplest sense possible, the value for me in seeing that I am not JUST the story of who I am is that it gives me a deeper acceptance, a richer and more fulfilling experience and a level of non-judgement that I just wouldn't have if I was totally caught up in 'my story'. On the other hand, I don't deny my personal desires, preferences and biases. Just as I feel its important to see that we are not just the story of who we are, I also feel that running and hiding from the story of who we are is also not the way forward. Sometimes we hear people talk about this in terms of true self and false self, but really, its all just Self.
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Post by serpentqueen on Jul 26, 2013 18:04:09 GMT -5
Age-old discussion it seems, in certain circles ... to what end does it serve to deny the validity of our person-hood? I am looking forward to all the 'personal expressions' which I 'unashamedly assume' will be forthcoming, with great fervor. Ultimately it results in true compassion, not just the pretension of compassion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2013 18:33:49 GMT -5
I have no idea what personhood is.
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Post by topology on Jul 26, 2013 18:38:09 GMT -5
I have no idea what personhood is.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2013 18:42:23 GMT -5
I have no idea what personhood is. Other than word lawyering, are you trying to make a point? If so, can you state it more clearly and more directly please? You're a hoot, a wonderfully comic interlude so much wrestling and seeking of conflict lol
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2013 18:47:39 GMT -5
Other than word lawyering, are you trying to make a point? If so, can you state it more clearly and more directly please? You're a hoot, a wonderfully comic interlude so much wrestling and seeking of conflict lol looks like you've made a troll-friend.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2013 19:01:25 GMT -5
Other than word lawyering, are you trying to make a point? If so, can you state it more clearly and more directly please? You're a hoot, a wonderfully comic interlude so much wrestling and seeking of conflict lol looks like you've made a troll-friend. Haha, seems so lol
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Post by topology on Jul 26, 2013 23:43:06 GMT -5
looks like you've made a troll-friend. Haha, seems so lol Feed me, Seymour! Feed me!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2013 0:33:48 GMT -5
Feed me, Seymour! Feed me! lol
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Post by hybrid on Jul 27, 2013 1:47:10 GMT -5
its part of the religious philosphy called apophatic theology or the neagtive approach. ver popuplar nin chrsitian mysticism and sufism. jesus taught it- crucify the self- anatta as well as budhha the hindu ewuivalent is neti neti nor this not that what is the point? except for an experience of cosmic sigh of relief, it provides an additional understanding to the nature of consciouness and the subjective experience Apophatic theology (from Ancient Greek: ??, from ? – apoph?mi, "to deny")—also known as negative theology, via negativa or via negationis[1] (Latin for "negative way" or "by way of denial")—is a theology that attempts to describe God, the Divine Good, by negation, to speak only in terms of what may not be said about the perfect goodness that is God.[2] It stands in contrast with cataphatic theology.
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Post by topology on Jul 27, 2013 8:36:55 GMT -5
its part of the religious philosphy called apophatic theology or the neagtive approach. ver popuplar nin chrsitian mysticism and sufism. jesus taught it- crucify the self- anatta as well as budhha the hindu ewuivalent is neti neti nor this not that what is the point? except for an experience of cosmic sigh of relief, it provides an additional understanding to the nature of consciouness and the subjective experience Apophatic theology (from Ancient Greek: ??, from ? – apoph?mi, "to deny")—also known as negative theology, via negativa or via negationis[1] (Latin for "negative way" or "by way of denial")—is a theology that attempts to describe God, the Divine Good, by negation, to speak only in terms of what may not be said about the perfect goodness that is God.[2] It stands in contrast with cataphatic theology. Have you studied formally or does this come from self-directed exploration? No judgement, your expression feels formal and you've been laying bread crumbs to see if anyone would engage you. (that's what it looks like to me)
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