Post by steven on Jul 5, 2013 18:03:53 GMT -5
Seems reasonable. Even ZD admits to doing it with this intention. Why else would one do it.
Again, seems reasonable. No normal person would see this as valuable and would think to themselves 'this seems like a colossal risk trading known pleasure for potentially... diddly-squat'. But remember ZD had had some cosmic consciousness experiences and he was very definitely aiming to get back to 'no mind'. This is one of the reasons I would say I have a problem with ATA. I have no 'navigation beacon' because I didn't have a cosmic consciousness/kensho type experience.
Wasn't it Rumi that said '15 seconds of truth and I was a slave for life'? Lucky Rumi. :-) If ZD had a proper glimpse to go on, no wonder he could muster the 'willpower' to do ATA until the cows came home.
I agree it is very difficult to do ATA coming from a place of not having a kensho type experience. However, I do see it as being a logical approach. If one does not pay attention to self, then self will wither away.
ZD's way was ZD's way. Perhaps your way will be to rage yourself into it. Anything is possible.
This is why I talk about noticing what's really going on. If you knew the nature of this imaginary self, why would you have any interest in it? How much effort would be required to turn attention away from it?
Both are required:
Increasingly long periods of not abiding in mentation, knowing, or understanding
Mixed with decreasing periods of:
Realizations in the mind of mind's nature, or self's nature, or lack there of.
You might be interested to know Enigma, that Dzogchen agrees with you, that releasing the self is much easier when one "sees" through it in a way that its "realness" is seen to be illusion.
But this is only one part of the "path", a part of the path for the novice, but also a crucial foundational element, once a Seeker has seen through the mind, self, and the illusion of reality, then the real work can begin in earnest.
They go so far as to say that if you can just accomplish this realization process, you will have taken immeasurable strides toward your "soul's" enlightenment, and will likely only live one more lifetime after that, meaning that you have cleared a huge hurdle to full realization of your "Buddhahood"
In Dzogchen, there are really two halves of practice:
1. The cognition of "reality" and the nature of Illusion.
2. The experiencing of "reality" and the nature of Illusion.
In the former, one contemplates mind and self from still silent awareness that they call Rigpa.
In the latter, one engages in Meditation techniques that STOP all mentation, cognition, realization, or knowing, and one simply abides in Essential Nature with no Self.
Wash Rinse, Repeat until there is no Self that "returns", not even a Mind the "realizes" that there is no Self.