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Post by laughter on Jul 4, 2013 6:35:24 GMT -5
Well, yes. Well actually no, but in order to show it we have to fire-up the mind, and big-time, so ... well yes.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2013 6:52:29 GMT -5
Well, yes. Well actually no, but in order to show it we have to fire-up the mind, and big-time, so ... well yes. I started to travel to try to unravel my mind and to find a new chance. When I got to Spain it was suddenly plain that the field that appealed was the dance. The Spanish were clannish but I wouldn't vanish and learned every step they had planned. The first step of all wasn't hard to recall, 'cause the first step of all is to stand. And stand. And stand. And stand... www.imdb.com/title/tt0049096/quotes
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Post by laughter on Jul 4, 2013 7:13:39 GMT -5
Well actually no, but in order to show it we have to fire-up the mind, and big-time, so ... well yes. I started to travel to try to unravel my mind and to find a new chance. When I got to Spain it was suddenly plain that the field that appealed was the dance. The Spanish were clannish but I wouldn't vanish and learned every step they had planned. The first step of all wasn't hard to recall, 'cause the first step of all is to stand. And stand. And stand. And stand... www.imdb.com/title/tt0049096/quotes nice find, thanks!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2013 7:30:01 GMT -5
I started to travel to try to unravel my mind and to find a new chance. When I got to Spain it was suddenly plain that the field that appealed was the dance. The Spanish were clannish but I wouldn't vanish and learned every step they had planned. The first step of all wasn't hard to recall, 'cause the first step of all is to stand. And stand. And stand. And stand... www.imdb.com/title/tt0049096/quotes nice find, thanks! I remember seeing the movie on television as a young boy. Danny Kaye played the role of the jester. Whenever I think of him, this song pops into mind... www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/franksinatra/youngatheart.html
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Post by enigma on Jul 4, 2013 9:23:39 GMT -5
I'm not saying don't practice. I have never said don't practice. All I've ever done is try to bring conscious awareness to what's actually being done. Practices are almost never what they seem to be. It isn't about learning new doggie tricks. It's always about clarity, so be clear about what's being practiced. In the post you responded to, I was suggesting something about what is actually happening in the practice aside from what appears to be happening. I'm not even sure what you mean by new doggie tricks? The reason I would do ATA (if I had to come up with one) is to get into the habit of having fewer self-referential thoughts. Of becoming conditioned to being 'used to' and 'comfortable' with not thinking about a me. If I'm reading you right, practice can be a 'reminder of the will to change' as well. Sure, I can see that. I wonder whether it is necessary to be conscious of that in order for it to be useful though. It sounds like something you might realize in retrospect. Wouldn't you say it could work the same way in either case (conscious slash non-conscious)? IThe practice is merely a framework to remind mind that it wants to put an end to the split mind process. If the conditioning is not primed for it, the practice will not be appropriate or effective. Pointing to the results and assigning a cause may be erroneous. I'm pretty sure I do get what you're saying, because it's not exactly esoteric. If you do something before it's the right time/place for you, then you might well think it's a bunch of hooey. Are you trying to point at something to do with me specifically, because if you are - that bit I still don't get.Gnaw, I was just talking in general terms.
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Post by topology on Jul 4, 2013 13:06:54 GMT -5
For ZD I'm guessing it was based on having had a kensho (or whatever) and then working out a way to get back there. I think it's common in the anecdotes for people to have the CC experience and then go chasing the '24x7' version. Yeah... but so what. A goodly number of the enlightened peeps did their utmost to 'get it' at one point. All part of their journey. I have no idea. Do you think you do? For ZD it was many years, IIRC (like, 10 years after CC experience - I could be wrong). Noticing has proved 'useful' to me (useful in terms of illusion-popping, which reduces suffering), for sure, and so I hope it continues (I doubt that it wouldn't). As illusions get popped, the mental behaviors drop away. Natural. Can you please help me notice more stuff? This is why I'm here on this board. Well, I was trying to point out something about the idea of turning attention away from the self in order to wither it away, and I don't feel like that was heard. I'm not saying don't do ATA. If anything, I'm saying do it with conscious awareness of what you are doing. In that sense, Bambi has had some valid points. It IS a practice. There IS a goal. It IS hard to do and nobody wants to do it and the failure rate is likely very close to 100%. My interest isn't so much on practices as it is on clarity, and so I'm somewhat interested in being clear about the practice. What I was trying to talk about is whether or not the self referential thoughts permanently cease as a result of repeatedly not paying attention to them. Fundamentally, that's what ATA does, so it's important to understand if that's really true, or if something else is happening that may point in an even more useful direction. If the practice of ATA is being used to avoid looking at a situation directly then that is not really breaking down the attachment. If anything, I think the practice is a good baseline for revealing attachment/blocks. Asking the question: why am I not able to ATA right now? What's going on with me that needs my direct attention? That said, ATA "rewired my brain". Putting intentional attention on the peripheral nervous system integrated It more, I have full peripheral vision all the time. It also lowered the biorhythms of the body-mind. If there is a resistence to letting go in ATA, it's the resistance that needs to be attended to.
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Post by topology on Jul 4, 2013 13:16:17 GMT -5
You don't know what the game is. Unfortunately there is this sadistic fixation on "no pain no gain", but it doesn't have to be that way. I don't play games that frustrate me, I play games that are fun, relaxing and challenging. The plain fact is that most people are like me in this regard, they too wouldn't play a game where they only get frustrated all the time. I don't care about all this philosophizing about the merits of frustration, the simple fact is that I sign off when I get frustrated and so do most people. Whoever wants to help people needs to respect this simple fact. Have you explored energy work at all? Reiki, chi, tai chi, chi gong, etc?
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jul 4, 2013 14:34:44 GMT -5
You don't know what the game is. Unfortunately there is this sadistic fixation on "no pain no gain", but it doesn't have to be that way. I don't play games that frustrate me, I play games that are fun, relaxing and challenging. The plain fact is that most people are like me in this regard, they too wouldn't play a game where they only get frustrated all the time. I don't care about all this philosophizing about the merits of frustration, the simple fact is that I sign off when I get frustrated and so do most people. Whoever wants to help people needs to respect this simple fact. Have you explored energy work at all? Reiki, chi, tai chi, chi gong, etc? I did reiki for a couple of years, from 18-22 probably. Biggest waste of my time. Never felt a dámn thing.
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Post by topology on Jul 4, 2013 15:09:33 GMT -5
Have you explored energy work at all? Reiki, chi, tai chi, chi gong, etc? I did reiki for a couple of years, from 18-22 probably. Biggest waste of my time. Never felt a dámn thing. When you feel your self, how do you feel? Tense, relaxed, anxious, open, irritated? What's your opinion towards existence and living your life?
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jul 4, 2013 15:39:44 GMT -5
I did reiki for a couple of years, from 18-22 probably. Biggest waste of my time. Never felt a dámn thing. When you feel your self, how do you feel? Tense, relaxed, anxious, open, irritated? What's your opinion towards existence and living your life? I'm not sure if you're serious, but your post is hilarious either way.
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Post by topology on Jul 4, 2013 15:50:54 GMT -5
When you feel your self, how do you feel? Tense, relaxed, anxious, open, irritated? What's your opinion towards existence and living your life? I'm not sure if you're serious, but your post is hilarious either way. I'm talking about feeling the quality of your mind and emotions. And yes I am serious. How do you experience yourself to be? tense, relaxed? What qualities would you ascribe?
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jul 4, 2013 15:53:39 GMT -5
I have no idea what you're talking about, but it sounds pretty intimate, which means that I wouldn't ever tell you anyway.
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Post by topology on Jul 4, 2013 16:51:56 GMT -5
I have no idea what you're talking about, but it sounds pretty intimate, which means that I wouldn't ever tell you anyway. bad experiences with telling peeps on the internet about personal details?
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jul 5, 2013 5:49:27 GMT -5
I have no idea what you're talking about, but it sounds pretty intimate, which means that I wouldn't ever tell you anyway. bad experiences with telling peeps on the internet about personal details? No, it's because I don't trust you. The very fact that I have clearly told you to not bother me about personal stuff and yet you still do is already proof that something is wrong with you.
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Post by topology on Jul 5, 2013 9:48:06 GMT -5
bad experiences with telling peeps on the internet about personal details? No, it's because I don't trust you. The very fact that I have clearly told you to not bother me about personal stuff and yet you still do is already proof that something is wrong with you. Wrong seems to be a cultural thang. Why is there something wrong with me trying to get to know you better? I could just as easily and just as legitimately say that there is something wrong with you for being averse to sharing yourself. If there is an issue of trust at play, there is usually a fear of being harmed not to far behind it. What are you afraid I will do to you?
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