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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 5, 2013 10:04:43 GMT -5
No, it's because I don't trust you. The very fact that I have clearly told you to not bother me about personal stuff and yet you still do is already proof that something is wrong with you. Wrong seems to be a cultural thang. Why is there something wrong with me trying to get to know you better? I could just as easily and just as legitimately say that there is something wrong with you for being averse to sharing yourself. If there is an issue of trust at play, there is usually a fear of being harmed not to far behind it. What are you afraid I will do to you? Many are afraid to let another see behind the mask of persona...or personas as the case my be :-)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2013 10:51:18 GMT -5
Wrong seems to be a cultural thang. Why is there something wrong with me trying to get to know you better? I could just as easily and just as legitimately say that there is something wrong with you for being averse to sharing yourself. If there is an issue of trust at play, there is usually a fear of being harmed not to far behind it. What are you afraid I will do to you? Many are afraid to let another see behind the mask of persona...or personas as the case my be :-) C'mon, jly. The reality is this. If the person is pushing that hard to see another clearly through enquiry, they're probably not awake in the first place. They're just distracting themselves. I've yet to read where ramana, u.g. or niz engaged in this manner. The questions were always asked of them by seekers.
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Post by justlikeyou on Jul 5, 2013 11:32:57 GMT -5
Many are afraid to let another see behind the mask of persona...or personas as the case my be :-) C'mon, jly. The reality is this. If the person is pushing that hard to see another clearly through enquiry, they're probably not awake in the first place. They're just distracting themselves. I've yet to read where ramana, u.g. or niz engaged in this manner. The questions were always asked of them by seekers. I know, and you are right. I was being subliminal Not everything on this forum is as it seems :-)
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Post by topology on Jul 5, 2013 11:51:37 GMT -5
Many are afraid to let another see behind the mask of persona...or personas as the case my be :-) C'mon, jly. The reality is this. If the person is pushing that hard to see another clearly through enquiry, they're probably not awake in the first place. They're just distracting themselves. I've yet to read where ramana, u.g. or niz engaged in this manner. The questions were always asked of them by seekers. Quite a different social construct between an Internet forum and going out of your way to engage someone whom you view as a guru. The guru construct makes them the font of wisdom and the one with all the right answers. Here on the forum we are all equals. Nobody is really here to find or be a guru.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2013 13:10:43 GMT -5
C'mon, jly. The reality is this. If the person is pushing that hard to see another clearly through enquiry, they're probably not awake in the first place. They're just distracting themselves. I've yet to read where ramana, u.g. or niz engaged in this manner. The questions were always asked of them by seekers. Quite a different social construct between an Internet forum and going out of your way to engage someone whom you view as a guru. The guru construct makes them the font of wisdom and the one with all the right answers. Here on the forum we are all equals. Nobody is really here to find or be a guru. I know I'm not here to be a guru. I feel q has his own process, as you have yours, and I mine. It's more natural that way.
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Post by topology on Jul 5, 2013 13:41:19 GMT -5
Quite a different social construct between an Internet forum and going out of your way to engage someone whom you view as a guru. The guru construct makes them the font of wisdom and the one with all the right answers. Here on the forum we are all equals. Nobody is really here to find or be a guru. I know I'm not here to be a guru. I feel q has his own process, as you have yours, and I mine. It's more natural that way. I'm not wanting to be a guru either. Are you saying I should change my process?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2013 13:46:53 GMT -5
I know I'm not here to be a guru. I feel q has his own process, as you have yours, and I mine. It's more natural that way. I'm not wanting to be a guru either. Are you saying I should change my process? I'm not wanting to be a guru first. Is the process changeless?
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Post by topology on Jul 5, 2013 13:59:09 GMT -5
I'm not wanting to be a guru either. Are you saying I should change my process? I'm not wanting to be a guru first. Is the process changeless? No the process is not changeless.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2013 14:07:25 GMT -5
I'm not wanting to be a guru first. Is the process changeless? No the process is not changeless. Mine isn't either, yet. There are times I long for a more structured monastic life. I understand that is a moment to moment choice. I liken it to stringing pearls. Watching the in breath take me home...
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Post by topology on Jul 5, 2013 14:15:11 GMT -5
No the process is not changeless. Mine isn't either, yet. There are times I long for a more structured monastic life. I understand that is a moment to moment choice. I liken it to stringing pearls. Watching the in breath take me home... Are you saying your process will become changeless? Yes, a structured monastic life would be easier. What is it that is a moment to moment choice?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2013 14:19:49 GMT -5
Mine isn't either, yet. There are times I long for a more structured monastic life. I understand that is a moment to moment choice. I liken it to stringing pearls. Watching the in breath take me home... Are you saying your process will become changeless? Yes, a structured monastic life would be easier. What is a moment to moment choice? No, I'm not saying that at all. Moment to moment for me is the body awareness. I sense u.g. got that part right.
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Post by topology on Jul 5, 2013 14:22:07 GMT -5
Are you saying your process will become changeless? Yes, a structured monastic life would be easier. What is a moment to moment choice? No, I'm not saying that at all. Moment to moment for me is the body awareness. I sense u.g. got that part right. I meant, what is it you see as being a moment to moment choice?
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Post by ???????? ???????????? on Jul 5, 2013 14:24:14 GMT -5
No, it's because I don't trust you. The very fact that I have clearly told you to not bother me about personal stuff and yet you still do is already proof that something is wrong with you. Wrong seems to be a cultural thang. Why is there something wrong with me trying to get to know you better? I could just as easily and just as legitimately say that there is something wrong with you for being averse to sharing yourself. If there is an issue of trust at play, there is usually a fear of being harmed not to far behind it. What are you afraid I will do to you? I'll be very blunt, because I'm a compassionate person and your attitude is awful and is going to hurt you in the long run. Everyone knows that I'm an ásshole, but hell, even I wouldn't push people to reveal their personal stuff. No relationship is ever going to work for you if you act like that. If you honestly don't see that you're wrong on this issue then you need some serious reflection time.
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Post by topology on Jul 5, 2013 14:32:26 GMT -5
Wrong seems to be a cultural thang. Why is there something wrong with me trying to get to know you better? I could just as easily and just as legitimately say that there is something wrong with you for being averse to sharing yourself. If there is an issue of trust at play, there is usually a fear of being harmed not to far behind it. What are you afraid I will do to you? I'll be very blunt, because I'm a compassionate person and your attitude is awful and is going to hurt you in the long run. Everyone knows that I'm an ásshole, but hell, even I wouldn't push people to reveal their personal stuff. No relationship is ever going to work for you if you act like that. If you honestly don't see that you're wrong on this issue then you need some serious reflection time. I act like this and I've got plenty of relationships that work for me. The person can't help being shared. Even in putting a wall up there is information about when the wall gets put up, how it gets reinforced, the texture and reactivity of the wall, all hints as to what is hiding behind it. You're spilling information about yourself all over the forum every time you post. Trying to maintain that wall is a losing proposition. Hope you find a way to let your walls stay down some day. The walls we erect are the walls we imprison ourselves with.
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Post by steven on Jul 5, 2013 15:45:44 GMT -5
I don't understand why people think that ATA is not a practise. It obviously is, there is nothing to debate here. ATA is basically paying attention to qualia and ignoring thoughts in the hope that one day a miracle will happen and enlightenment occurs. It really is as primitive as that. Obviously it is an activity that is extremely difficult to sustain. There are only two solutions. Either the desire is greater than the pain, or, as they hope, miraculously ATA grows into an automatism. It is only a "Practice" until it is no longer a "Practice". This is where "extremely difficult to sustain" comes into play. any Habit, by nature, is easy to sustain...for most people, mentation, and identification, and knowing, are habitual....so they require no effort at all to sustain, in fact, once the momentum of habit is established, it's hard to sustainably stop that momentum. ATA, and other "methods" for letting go of the clinging, knowing, and identification inherent to Mind movements are usually going to initially be a "practice", until one is habitualized to it....then it will no longer be any more of a "practice" than your mentation is right now. The "goal" is to replace one habit with another....in this case, Practices like ATA, or Not Knowing, or Giving Attention to the Gap Between Thoughts, all serve to undo the habit of mentation. As relates to "enlightenment"....when you become habitualized to non-mentation, a space is created where the Knowing, and Self Identification, and The "realness" of this dream and your illusion of individuation unravel, and disappear into the void ;-) "Practice" like ATA and many of the others that I have suggested, are really only a practice until they are habitualized, and what you are trying to habitualize is the opening of a space that is void of the inherent limits of mentation, i.e. knowing, understanding, identification, etc....the space that is opened up, is the space where all these Mind limiters are let go of....released. Perhaps a better way of saying it, is that one is replacing the habit of clinging, with a habit of letting go, until there is nothing left to cling to.
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