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Post by arisha on Nov 18, 2012 16:00:14 GMT -5
Setting your conflict with E aside in this instance, Figgy, you tell me. Is Arisha's vilifying NPLers appropriate, healthy, or promoting ease/peace/joy/well-being? All of her friends would get away with such a posting, and none of her enemies would, and yet she would be aghast at the notion that her perception is distorted in that way. It's part of the insanity. I. don't. buy. friends. with. my. posts. If it's insanity for you I feel a pity for you. I also know WHY you touches this subject, - call it my imagination, - you won't deceive anybody, maybe only yourself.
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Post by farmer on Nov 18, 2012 16:19:17 GMT -5
calling members NLP'ers is not quite right, and is easily refuted (unless you can provide a quote, and/or a reference, lol)
but its funny that so many people throughout the years have sensed that smell of funk in the room, but can never quite put a finger on it
and its not like its "all of the time", so that only adds to the perplexing nature of it
its like some members are playing a beautiful melody with one hand, while their fingernails are clawing a chalkboard with the other
so you are left feeling that there is a sense of greatness .. somewhere .. somehow .. but in some indescribable way its being obscured by an aura of darkness or malignancy or something
but whatever that funky smell is, it can't be understood or described, and to even bring it up only leads to some unwinnable war of words
you would think a forum such as this would be alive and vibrant, but its not. it is littered with the corpses of people who came, saw, and said "meh, this is not my cup of tea"
lol
add me to the long list of greyed out names .. hehe
take care everyone GOOD LUCK!
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Post by enigma on Nov 18, 2012 16:41:07 GMT -5
In that case, I misperceived Peter's intention for posting. Lately, he usually responds to posts because they have been reported. Maybe so, but what I saw was that you're NLP tirade followed our accusations of your use of NLP methods, which you didn't seem pleased about. But all of that is just happening in your imagination, not in real life. It makes a difference. That's the insanity I'm referring to. Is this you "speaking our own language" again? Some members do this on a pretty regular basis (You, Silver, Figandrew, not to mention any names) but not Reefs and Enigma. You seem to be speaking YOUR language, not mine. If I used NLP method I used it unconsciously, I already said about that. Yes, I tried to be speaking your language. You say that the distortions and twisting you regularly use are in my imagination. Then I have to say that you don't understand what you are doing when you distort the meaning of what was said and present it in a different context. I cannot believe, though, that you don't understand when you use different contexts which completely change the meaning. You ask again, in your reply to Figgy, about examples of your posts. But you had already been answered that the examples are in your use of diferent contexts. And you were immediately given such an example in another thread where you twisted again, changing the context. Yes, it's your unconscious use of manipulative terms that was being pointed out to you, like 'everybody' and 'others can see this too' and the like. It's not some attack or NLP manipulation or distortion or twisting context thingy. My suspicion is that what you see as 'presenting in a different context' is me talking about an unintended aspect or implication or grounding assumption about what you say. It's a different way of looking at what you're saying that's intended to point out contradictions, boundaries, projections and unconscious motivations, and so it comes back looking quite different from how you experienced it when you said it, and really that's the point of looking at it in that way: to see it in a new way.
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Post by enigma on Nov 18, 2012 16:43:13 GMT -5
All of her friends would get away with such a posting, and none of her enemies would, and yet she would be aghast at the notion that her perception is distorted in that way. It's part of the insanity. I. don't. buy. friends. with. my. posts. I. was. talking. about. Figgy.
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Post by enigma on Nov 18, 2012 16:47:41 GMT -5
its like some members are playing a beautiful melody with one hand, while their fingernails are clawing a chalkboard with the other Yes, truth is a double edged sword. We're simultaneously drawn toward it, and terrified of it. As long as that's the case, I'd say you haven't gone too far astray.
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Post by topology on Nov 18, 2012 16:47:50 GMT -5
NLPers and the like has created their ugly image themselves. The ugly meaning of it is in their rude manipulations of others FOR THE SAKE of controlling and dominating. Their approach aims at creating such structures in the psyche which make the person believe they can be above others, and this is how those techniques build confidence in those who lack it. So, they build confidence in their clients at the expense of others. Confidence should and can be built with other methods which don't destroy others dignity. That ugly picture is yours, Arisha, and you're trying to share it so that it lives in other people's minds. I'll pass on taking that ugly picture into me, thanks. NLP is a tool. That's it. There are a lot of people using NLP for cognitive and behavioral remodeling in therapeutic settings. There is no abuse or misuse intended in these situations.
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Post by silver on Nov 18, 2012 16:54:25 GMT -5
NLPers and the like has created their ugly image themselves. The ugly meaning of it is in their rude manipulations of others FOR THE SAKE of controlling and dominating. Their approach aims at creating such structures in the psyche which make the person believe they can be above others, and this is how those techniques build confidence in those who lack it. So, they build confidence in their clients at the expense of others. Confidence should and can be built with other methods which don't destroy others dignity. That ugly picture is yours, Arisha, and you're trying to share it so that it lives in other people's minds. I'll pass on taking that ugly picture into me, thanks. NLP is a tool. That's it. There are a lot of people using NLP for cognitive and behavioral remodeling in therapeutic settings. There is no abuse or misuse intended in these situations. ....and elsewhere? How is your world any uglier or prettier by what Arisha has said? It's the same. Why do you try and shame her? There is no you to take anything in or out of. How can you be a part of everything and not be aware that everything - the good, bad and ugly IS.
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Post by arisha on Nov 18, 2012 16:55:26 GMT -5
Maybe. The thing is people dislike to be told the truth which they don't want to see. Sometimes they themselves are involved in falsity, sometimes they don't want it for some other reasons, - I am not going to analyze it right now. Yes, very often truth reveals things which stink. So, what? To keep on living in a dirty house? If a person can be vibrant and can sound interesting in their posts only in case they twist, change contexts, mock and insult, directly or in a hidden way, - it's not the way. Being interesting without mocking and distorting what others said is also possible.
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Post by silver on Nov 18, 2012 16:58:57 GMT -5
Maybe. The thing is people dislike to be told the truth which they don't want to see. Sometimes they themselves are involved in falsity, sometimes they don't want it for some other reasons, - I am not going to analyze it right now. Yes, very often truth reveals things which stink. So, what? To keep on living in a dirty house? If a person can be vibrant and can sound interesting in their posts only in case they twist, change contexts, mock and insult, directly or in a hidden way, - it's not the way. Being interesting without mocking and distorting what others said is also possible. Well, I say nicely put.
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Post by arisha on Nov 18, 2012 17:05:38 GMT -5
Enigma:
Changing of the context, and a different way of looking at what is said are not the same. Look at what is said in any way, - but don't change the meaning of what is said by others. Say yourself something new and different, but don't use other's words in some different context which helps you use their words and the meaning which was behind in order to say something new. A different way of looking at is what we all came here for. So, don't distort what is said. And distortion combined with mocking and insulting is a completely inappropriate way. .
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Post by topology on Nov 18, 2012 17:10:26 GMT -5
That ugly picture is yours, Arisha, and you're trying to share it so that it lives in other people's minds. I'll pass on taking that ugly picture into me, thanks. NLP is a tool. That's it. There are a lot of people using NLP for cognitive and behavioral remodeling in therapeutic settings. There is no abuse or misuse intended in these situations. ....and elsewhere? How is your world any uglier or prettier by what Arisha has said? It's the same. Why do you try and shame her? There is no you to take anything in or out of. How can you be a part of everything and not be aware that everything - the good, bad and ugly IS. How is it shaming her to point out how ugly the world looks like in her view of it? My intent is to make her aware of: 1) Its her perception, not the actual state of the world. 2) It is an ugly picture she's cultivated and fixated on. There's enough ugliness in the world without needing to unnecessarily proliferate it. How's the interaction going to go when someone who has studied and practiced NLP but is not manipulative and abusive with it lets it slip that they practice NLP for their own life improvement and to help others to improve their lives? At first there's a great conversation, then the NLP-bomb goes off and HORROR OF HORRORS, the perception of this person becomes tainted due to the accumulated negative associations to the idea of NLP. If there is one message I would pass on to others, the main message of my life, it would be to stop imagining how the world is and let the true nature of the world reveal itself to you moment by moment.
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Post by silver on Nov 18, 2012 17:13:16 GMT -5
....and elsewhere? How is your world any uglier or prettier by what Arisha has said? It's the same. Why do you try and shame her? There is no you to take anything in or out of. How can you be a part of everything and not be aware that everything - the good, bad and ugly IS. How is it shaming her to point out how ugly the world looks like in her view of it? My intent is to make her aware of: 1) Its her perception, not the actual state of the world. 2) It is an ugly picture she's cultivated and fixated on. There's enough ugliness in the world without needing to unnecessarily proliferate it. How's the interaction going to go when someone who has studied and practiced NLP but is not manipulative and abusive with it lets it slip that they practice NLP for their own life improvement and to help others to improve their lives? At first there's a great conversation, then the NLP-bomb goes off and HORROR OF HORRORS, the perception of this person becomes tainted due to the accumulated negative associations to the idea of NLP. If there is one message I would pass on to others, the main message of my life, it would be to stop imagining how the world is and let the true nature of the world reveal itself to you moment by moment. Ok fine. Let's take that as a given for a moment. How is her purported knowledge of what this tool CAN be used for make her culpable for said misuse of said tool? Give grown-ups some credit for figuring things out for themselves. So - and how does this HORROR OF HORRORS end up worse than the purported twisting of people's words here any more HORRIBLE?
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Post by Beingist on Nov 18, 2012 17:30:34 GMT -5
....and elsewhere? How is your world any uglier or prettier by what Arisha has said? It's the same. Why do you try and shame her? There is no you to take anything in or out of. How can you be a part of everything and not be aware that everything - the good, bad and ugly IS. How is it shaming her to point out how ugly the world looks like in her view of it? My intent is to make her aware of: 1) Its her perception, not the actual state of the world. 2) It is an ugly picture she's cultivated and fixated on. There's enough ugliness in the world without needing to unnecessarily proliferate it. How's the interaction going to go when someone who has studied and practiced NLP but is not manipulative and abusive with it lets it slip that they practice NLP for their own life improvement and to help others to improve their lives? At first there's a great conversation, then the NLP-bomb goes off and HORROR OF HORRORS, the perception of this person becomes tainted due to the accumulated negative associations to the idea of NLP. If there is one message I would pass on to others, the main message of my life, it would be to stop imagining how the world is and let the true nature of the world reveal itself to you moment by moment. Gotta admit, tops, at this moment, the 'true nature of the world' isn't revealing itself as very pretty. Lotsa hostility, and stuff.
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human
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by human on Nov 18, 2012 17:44:23 GMT -5
Is the ugliness the true nature of 'world' or 'mind'?
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Post by topology on Nov 18, 2012 18:03:48 GMT -5
How is it shaming her to point out how ugly the world looks like in her view of it? My intent is to make her aware of: 1) Its her perception, not the actual state of the world. 2) It is an ugly picture she's cultivated and fixated on. There's enough ugliness in the world without needing to unnecessarily proliferate it. How's the interaction going to go when someone who has studied and practiced NLP but is not manipulative and abusive with it lets it slip that they practice NLP for their own life improvement and to help others to improve their lives? At first there's a great conversation, then the NLP-bomb goes off and HORROR OF HORRORS, the perception of this person becomes tainted due to the accumulated negative associations to the idea of NLP. If there is one message I would pass on to others, the main message of my life, it would be to stop imagining how the world is and let the true nature of the world reveal itself to you moment by moment. Ok fine. Let's take that as a given for a moment. How is her purported knowledge of what this tool CAN be used for make her culpable for said misuse of said tool? Give grown-ups some credit for figuring things out for themselves. So - and how does this HORROR OF HORRORS end up worse than the purported twisting of people's words here any more HORRIBLE? No, silver, she is characterizing all people who use NLP. It's not what it CAN be used for in her expression, it's what it is ALWAYS used for, and that is why I am objecting to the misrepresentation and mischaracterization.
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