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Post by arisha on Nov 17, 2012 10:15:44 GMT -5
NLP - Neuro-Linguistic Programming.
A very nasty methodology. Its aim is manipulation. Its ideas are unethical. What can be ethical about the use of distortion, generalization and deletion?
I say it at the very beginning, and will be pasting it every time I am accused of the NLP: NLP guys! If you think I use NLP first look in the mirror.
Yeah, our NLP guys have been trained well, they give support to each other, and never learn anything new. Those are their main features. They are like machines : programmed for NLP, emotionless, cannot be tired, always use NLP.
Now they will cite this part and start their NLP.
I am not going to answer posts with NLP. I will speak only to people, not to NLP machines.
All those NLP methods have been known since time immemorial.
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Post by arisha on Nov 17, 2012 10:35:14 GMT -5
If I unconsciously used NLP methods I think I did it because I tried to use the same method to be able to talk to the NLP guy in their own language.
I agree that it is wrong to use the unfair method because it was used against me. If we are treated in a wrong way it doesn't mean we are allowed to treat the person in the same wrong way as they did it with us.
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Post by arisha on Nov 17, 2012 10:44:38 GMT -5
If an NLP guy starts seeking in every word of mine NLP ( because right now I made some generalization saying "if WE are treated in a wrong way) , - I will be honest and will say what I think about them. Without any NLP.
My definition of the NLP guy : a twisting guy who uses distortions, creates contexts for twisting, creates negative feelings for others without a valid reason, and is not able to be critical about themselves.
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Post by Beingist on Nov 17, 2012 10:45:10 GMT -5
Indeed, I have a hard time dealing with NLPers, myself, but I really don't think there's anyone on this forum that uses it. The idea that anyone does seems to have come out of left field.
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Post by silver on Nov 17, 2012 10:54:25 GMT -5
Indeed, I have a hard time dealing with NLPers, myself, but I really don't think there's anyone on this forum that uses it. The idea that anyone does seems to have come out of left field. Are you serious?  No need to respond ~ It's a rhetorical.  |
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Post by Beingist on Nov 17, 2012 11:03:27 GMT -5
Indeed, I have a hard time dealing with NLPers, myself, but I really don't think there's anyone on this forum that uses it. The idea that anyone does seems to have come out of left field. Are you serious? No need to respond ~ It's a rhetorical. Well, I'm going to respond, anyway, Miss Rhetorical. Lotsa NLPers back in Pavlinaville, see. And as Arisha suggests, they are indeed like machines. This is, I think, because before you can program anyone, you kinda have to program yourself, first. And, I see no one here exhibiting such programming, despite what anyone may think. Such is an imagined thing. If there were any NLPers here, I guarantee you that I wouldn't be anywhere near this place. I would have either left quickly of my own accord, or I would have been banned long ago. I'm pretty quick to challenge NLPers. (Just ask any of the former Pavs about my wonderful relationship with a prominent NLPer named Angela. ;D) |
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Post by silver on Nov 17, 2012 11:06:37 GMT -5
Are you serious? No need to respond ~ It's a rhetorical. Well, I'm going to respond, anyway, Miss Rhetorical. Lotsa NLPers back in Pavlinaville, see. And as Arisha suggests, they are indeed like machines. This is, I think, because before you can program anyone, you kinda have to program yourself, first. And, I see no one here exhibiting such programming, despite what anyone may think. Such is an imagined thing. If there were any NLPers here, I guarantee you that I wouldn't be anywhere near this place. I would have either left quickly of my own accord, or I would have been banned long ago. I'm pretty quick to challenge NLPers. (Just ask any of the former Pavs about my wonderful relationship with a prominent NLPer named Angela. ;D) Teehee, I figured you would. oooOOOooo j uicy~* |
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Post by topology on Nov 17, 2012 11:10:42 GMT -5
Indeed, I have a hard time dealing with NLPers, myself, but I really don't think there's anyone on this forum that uses it. The idea that anyone does seems to have come out of left field. Yep. We now have a label to vilify the people we want to vilify because they are doing something everyone does (use language). |
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Post by frankshank on Nov 17, 2012 11:15:01 GMT -5
How can you tell whether someone's an NLPer?
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Post by Beingist on Nov 17, 2012 11:26:36 GMT -5
How can you tell whether someone's an NLPer? Well, it's very subtle, but it deals with using certain terms in place of others (that's the lingustic part), and using them often (which is the programming part). Key to the noticing is in the sincerity of what's being said--where it's coming from. As I said, NLPers have to program themselves, first, and that becomes evident in the level of their sincerity. But, their sincerity is stifled, not because they've deluded themselves, but rather because they've programmed themselves. They really can appear like robots, sometimes, but it can indeed be very subtle. The effective ones also tend to have a lot of followers, who learn to use the same terms to make their point. |
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Post by silver on Nov 17, 2012 11:27:26 GMT -5
I don't know, frank but I think they missed me and hit Beingist.  |
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Post by frankshank on Nov 17, 2012 14:06:42 GMT -5
How can you tell whether someone's an NLPer? Well, it's very subtle, but it deals with using certain terms in place of others (that's the lingustic part), and using them often (which is the programming part). Key to the noticing is in the sincerity of what's being said--where it's coming from. As I said, NLPers have to program themselves, first, and that becomes evident in the level of their sincerity. But, their sincerity is stifled, not because they've deluded themselves, but rather because they've programmed themselves. They really can appear like robots, sometimes, but it can indeed be very subtle. The effective ones also tend to have a lot of followers, who learn to use the same terms to make their point. Thanks for that Beingist. I'm not that well up on NLP. I just watched a video on youtube about it though and the guy was giving advice on chatting up women. His advice was to be yourself. Strip away the BS. He used a number of metaphors to get the message across. Here's the video actually: m.youtube.com/watch?v=N2nAqRjEgd0. SO based on that sincerity isn't necessarily shelved when using NLP. I'd struggle to figure out whether someone was being sincere via an internet forum anyway. Face to face - much easier. |
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Post by topology on Nov 17, 2012 14:32:38 GMT -5
Well, it's very subtle, but it deals with using certain terms in place of others (that's the lingustic part), and using them often (which is the programming part). Key to the noticing is in the sincerity of what's being said--where it's coming from. As I said, NLPers have to program themselves, first, and that becomes evident in the level of their sincerity. But, their sincerity is stifled, not because they've deluded themselves, but rather because they've programmed themselves. They really can appear like robots, sometimes, but it can indeed be very subtle. The effective ones also tend to have a lot of followers, who learn to use the same terms to make their point. Thanks for that Beingist. I'm not that well up on NLP. I just watched a video on youtube about it though and the guy was giving advice on chatting up women. His advice was to be yourself. Strip away the BS. He used a number of metaphors to get the message across. Here's the video actually: m.youtube.com/watch?v=N2nAqRjEgd0. SO based on that sincerity isn't necessarily shelved when using NLP. I'd struggle to figure out whether someone was being sincere via an internet forum anyway. Face to face - much easier. It started out with an effort at being therapeutic, cognitive re-templating through intentionally changing our languaging. While the wiki article says its discredited, the marketing and propaganda industry would be proof positive that you can influence other people's cognition with very specific word choice. It gets a negative wrap because there were many seminars coming out about how to increase sales and productivity through "programming" others, essentially managing their perception and thought processes. Protocols for controlling conversation. Another example of a highly programmed group-> Ruthless Truth. For things which need protocols and managed perceptions (think lobby of DMV, doctor weighting room, etc), NLP can be useful for herding people. But NLP is not good at dynamic interaction and spontaneity. Most authentic interactions, human to human, essence to essence, would be constrained through the over-use of NLP. But business which need to treat people through roles, NLP can be employed to design the interaction around enforcing those roles. As with everything, it all boils down to the intent of the person/agency employing the tool. |
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human
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Post by human on Nov 17, 2012 15:19:15 GMT -5
So NLP works on the level of 'mind' then? Playing about with people's mental 'triggers'? I have witnessed it being employed at times but have never been drawn to it's practitioners as there always appears to be a lack of humanity whilst someone is operating at this level. Maybe fine if you want to sell whitegoods I guess. Other than that people get sick of sizzle with no substance.
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Post by desertrat on Nov 17, 2012 15:55:52 GMT -5
There are other forms of hypnosis and self hypnosis . There is a computer program where you record your own message and it will play back at certain times while you are asleep . Like " I will lose weight " I will stop smoking " " I will make a lot of money " ect. There is nothing "evil " about the basic idea of N.L.P. On old Pavlina www.stevepavlina.com/forums/ members being " programed " I beg to differ , I have no idea what you have to base that on . desert rat p.s. hear is a link to arisha's post on Pavlina www.stevepavlina.com/forums/psychic-paranormal/53476-abuse-telepathy-channel.html it is interesting to read . |
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