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Post by topology on Nov 18, 2012 18:05:55 GMT -5
How is it shaming her to point out how ugly the world looks like in her view of it? My intent is to make her aware of: 1) Its her perception, not the actual state of the world. 2) It is an ugly picture she's cultivated and fixated on. There's enough ugliness in the world without needing to unnecessarily proliferate it. How's the interaction going to go when someone who has studied and practiced NLP but is not manipulative and abusive with it lets it slip that they practice NLP for their own life improvement and to help others to improve their lives? At first there's a great conversation, then the NLP-bomb goes off and HORROR OF HORRORS, the perception of this person becomes tainted due to the accumulated negative associations to the idea of NLP. If there is one message I would pass on to others, the main message of my life, it would be to stop imagining how the world is and let the true nature of the world reveal itself to you moment by moment. Gotta admit, tops, at this moment, the 'true nature of the world' isn't revealing itself as very pretty. Lotsa hostility, and stuff. The forum isn't the world. Go out in the world, nature, get out of your limited in-a-rut context then re-evaluate. ;D. Of course "the world" is very often what we choose to fixate on. That would bring us to Human's question.
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Post by silver on Nov 18, 2012 18:06:53 GMT -5
Ok fine. Let's take that as a given for a moment. How is her purported knowledge of what this tool CAN be used for make her culpable for said misuse of said tool? Give grown-ups some credit for figuring things out for themselves. So - and how does this HORROR OF HORRORS end up worse than the purported twisting of people's words here any more HORRIBLE? No, silver, she is characterizing all people who use NLP. It's not what it CAN be used for in her expression, it's what it is ALWAYS used for, and that is why I am objecting to the misrepresentation and mischaracterization. I think in at least 1 or more different ways and instances, she's pointed at how it is (purportedly) being used here, on this forum, at least that seems clear enough to me that she's not saying all people who use NLP misuse it. If I didn't know better, I'd say this is your own sly way of taking sides...and perhaps you don't realize it just yet. Lots of things get suggested around here and that's all I'm doing is suggesting that...
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Post by enigma on Nov 18, 2012 18:25:12 GMT -5
That ugly picture is yours, Arisha, and you're trying to share it so that it lives in other people's minds. I'll pass on taking that ugly picture into me, thanks. NLP is a tool. That's it. There are a lot of people using NLP for cognitive and behavioral remodeling in therapeutic settings. There is no abuse or misuse intended in these situations. ....and elsewhere? How is your world any uglier or prettier by what Arisha has said? It's the same. Why do you try and shame her? There is no you to take anything in or out of. How can you be a part of everything and not be aware that everything - the good, bad and ugly IS. Same reason you're trying to 'shame' Top, I guess.
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Post by enigma on Nov 18, 2012 18:29:43 GMT -5
Maybe. The thing is people dislike to be told the truth which they don't want to see. Sometimes they themselves are involved in falsity, sometimes they don't want it for some other reasons, - I am not going to analyze it right now. Yes, it's a bit like fingernails on a chalkboard. Maybe start living the living truth? It's not about interesting. For the gazillionth time, it's. about. what's. true.
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Post by silver on Nov 18, 2012 18:37:08 GMT -5
....and elsewhere? How is your world any uglier or prettier by what Arisha has said? It's the same. Why do you try and shame her? There is no you to take anything in or out of. How can you be a part of everything and not be aware that everything - the good, bad and ugly IS. Same reason you're trying to 'shame' Top, I guess. How am I doing that?
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Post by silver on Nov 18, 2012 18:39:22 GMT -5
Maybe. The thing is people dislike to be told the truth which they don't want to see. Sometimes they themselves are involved in falsity, sometimes they don't want it for some other reasons, - I am not going to analyze it right now. Yes, it's a bit like fingernails on a chalkboard. Maybe start living the living truth? It's not about interesting. For the gazillionth time, it's. about. what's. true. Are you going to teach everybody what it IS to 'start' living 'the living truth'? Are you the judge of what's true?
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Post by enigma on Nov 18, 2012 18:39:31 GMT -5
Enigma: Changing of the context, and a different way of looking at what is said are not the same. I agree. You've been unable to so much as give me an example of this mysterious context changing. All you do is keep accusing me of it. I AM trying to meet you half way by trying to understand what you're seeing. You need to be specific. I don't believe I've ever done that. You need to not be lazy and show me precisely where that has happened.
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Post by arisha on Nov 18, 2012 18:42:31 GMT -5
Maybe. The thing is people dislike to be told the truth which they don't want to see. Sometimes they themselves are involved in falsity, sometimes they don't want it for some other reasons, - I am not going to analyze it right now. Yes, it's a bit like fingernails on a chalkboard. Maybe start living the living truth? It's not about interesting. For the gazillionth time, it's. about. what's. true. O.M.G. The thing is it's NOT about what's true, simply because what is true for you akcholi IS NOT true. Once again: Saying your truth should be done WITHOUT twisting, distorting, and changing the context of what was said by others, WITHOUT mocking and insulting.
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Post by enigma on Nov 18, 2012 18:42:56 GMT -5
If there is one message I would pass on to others, the main message of my life, it would be to stop imagining how the world is and let the true nature of the world reveal itself to you moment by moment. It means more trouble for me I spose, but thank you for your sanity.
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Post by enigma on Nov 18, 2012 18:45:50 GMT -5
How is it shaming her to point out how ugly the world looks like in her view of it? My intent is to make her aware of: 1) Its her perception, not the actual state of the world. 2) It is an ugly picture she's cultivated and fixated on. There's enough ugliness in the world without needing to unnecessarily proliferate it. How's the interaction going to go when someone who has studied and practiced NLP but is not manipulative and abusive with it lets it slip that they practice NLP for their own life improvement and to help others to improve their lives? At first there's a great conversation, then the NLP-bomb goes off and HORROR OF HORRORS, the perception of this person becomes tainted due to the accumulated negative associations to the idea of NLP. If there is one message I would pass on to others, the main message of my life, it would be to stop imagining how the world is and let the true nature of the world reveal itself to you moment by moment. Ok fine. Let's take that as a given for a moment. How is her purported knowledge of what this tool CAN be used for make her culpable for said misuse of said tool? Give grown-ups some credit for figuring things out for themselves. So - and how does this HORROR OF HORRORS end up worse than the purported twisting of people's words here any more HORRIBLE? What twisting of people's words? Figure it out for yourself.
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Post by enigma on Nov 18, 2012 18:46:56 GMT -5
How is it shaming her to point out how ugly the world looks like in her view of it? My intent is to make her aware of: 1) Its her perception, not the actual state of the world. 2) It is an ugly picture she's cultivated and fixated on. There's enough ugliness in the world without needing to unnecessarily proliferate it. How's the interaction going to go when someone who has studied and practiced NLP but is not manipulative and abusive with it lets it slip that they practice NLP for their own life improvement and to help others to improve their lives? At first there's a great conversation, then the NLP-bomb goes off and HORROR OF HORRORS, the perception of this person becomes tainted due to the accumulated negative associations to the idea of NLP. If there is one message I would pass on to others, the main message of my life, it would be to stop imagining how the world is and let the true nature of the world reveal itself to you moment by moment. Gotta admit, tops, at this moment, the 'true nature of the world' isn't revealing itself as very pretty. Lotsa hostility, and stuff. Because peeps aren't seeing the true nature of the world.
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Post by arisha on Nov 18, 2012 18:46:59 GMT -5
Enigma: Changing of the context, and a different way of looking at what is said are not the same. I agree. You've been unable to so much as give me an example of this mysterious context changing. All you do is keep accusing me of it. I AM trying to meet you half way by trying to understand what you're seeing. You need to be specific. I don't believe I've ever done that. You need to not be lazy and show me precisely where that has happened. I will. Now I will be immediately commenting on every distortion and changing of the context of what others said when you do that. So, please, don't do that.
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Post by arisha on Nov 18, 2012 18:48:38 GMT -5
Because peeps aren't seeing the true nature of the world. OMG You aren't either!
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Post by enigma on Nov 18, 2012 18:51:21 GMT -5
Same reason you're trying to 'shame' Top, I guess. How am I doing that? S: How can you be a part of everything and not be aware that everything - the good, bad and ugly IS.
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Post by silver on Nov 18, 2012 18:55:24 GMT -5
S: How can you be a part of everything and not be aware that everything - the good, bad and ugly IS. Back atcha, fella.
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