|
Post by enigma on Nov 18, 2012 13:09:22 GMT -5
I gots just two words fer ya: In sane. Enigma - please to clarify. What was it that you found Insane here? I've used the term multiple times here lately. To be clear, this is the context in which I'm using it. Tolle The "collective insanity" of humans is expressed in the form of thinking patterns that replace actuality with self delusion, implying that the individual actually believes the erroneous thoughts being produced, which makes discussion with the individual a bit problematic, but doesn't imply that we should then remain silent on the issue. In case there's any confusion, Arisha's NLPer tirade is a thinly disguised attack on me. She avoided using my name so that she could freely attack without danger of repercussion, and then report my post when I simply call it insane. I don't know enough about NLP to be qualified to dispute her characterization of NLP, but it hardly seems to matter. It's simply a list of all the derogatory perceptions she's had of me in the past, with an NLP label attached for plausible deniability.
|
|
|
Post by topology on Nov 18, 2012 14:14:50 GMT -5
Arisha, who on the forum do you see as an "NLP guy"?
|
|
|
Post by figgy on Nov 18, 2012 14:24:29 GMT -5
Enigma - please to clarify. What was it that you found Insane here? I've used the term multiple times here lately. To be clear, this is the context in which I'm using it. Tolle The "collective insanity" of humans is expressed in the form of thinking patterns that replace actuality with self delusion, implying that the individual actually believes the erroneous thoughts being produced, which makes discussion with the individual a bit problematic, but doesn't imply that we should then remain silent on the issue. In case there's any confusion, Arisha's NLPer tirade is a thinly disguised attack on me. She avoided using my name so that she could freely attack without danger of repercussion, and then report my post when I simply call it insane. I don't know enough about NLP to be qualified to dispute her characterization of NLP, but it hardly seems to matter. It's simply a list of all the derogatory perceptions she's had of me in the past, with an NLP label attached for plausible deniability. Is it possible that in the same way that you see Arisha (and others here) as deluded, insane and lacking in clarity, she/they see the same in you? When you point out an other's delusion, insanity, lack of sincerity, game playing, manipulations and need to twist things in order to be right, you call it 'teaching' or 'pointing towards truth.' When another does it to you, it is called "attacking." It is this (seeming) holding yourself above reproach, this placing yourself in a different category, believing yourself to be completely above the possibility of falling prey to an incorrect perception, that some here take issue with. You seem to regard yourself as a paragon of clarity and most others here as seriously, insanely deluded. But, When we hold tenaciously to any belief, we've closed the door to possibility and thus, to clarity.
|
|
|
Post by arisha on Nov 18, 2012 14:48:23 GMT -5
I have never reported anybody's posts. I even have never given any positive or negative karma points to anybody. - Peter can confirm that. I see it a little bit childish, that's why. I have already said in other posts that I have nothing against MY being treated in any way - in the way that can be seen as offensive - because I DON'T CARE. I don't feel offended. But when other people are treated inappropriately - just because they have views that are different - like Andrew, Silver - I prefer to say about that. Of course, they don't need any help, and can manage it themselves. But when what they say is twisted, distorted, used in a different context and then presented as what they say, when they are insulted, feel being insulted and say about that, - and don't receive any apologizing for mistreatment, - it looks like the resuming of bullying on the forum. I call such twistings and distortions NLP ,- as they are used in NLP practicing. Look the article in Wikipedia. Distortion, generalization and deletion - are NLP tools. And it is Distortion, Generalization and Deletion that are used by Enigma constantly. As he posts a lot, his NLP is abundant. When it is used in order to mock and insult his opponents, it becomes inappropriate. Reefs and Enigma said to me themselves that I used NLP. I just tried to speak their own language so that they could see how it feels. How comes that I use it, and they - don't, if they practice distortions, deletions - on a regular basis? I am not the only one who sees that, says about that, and many who don't say and don't post here - I am sure - agree with me about Enigma's methods. What is the worst those NLP guys use NLP in combination with insulting - direct insulting and hidden insulting. I repeat it: I am ok. If somebody tries to insult me - they don't succeed because I don't care about their insults. But don't make it a regular practice on the forum. And the NLP practicing is also not a good fair method.
|
|
|
Post by arisha on Nov 18, 2012 14:52:57 GMT -5
I've used the term multiple times here lately. To be clear, this is the context in which I'm using it. Tolle The "collective insanity" of humans is expressed in the form of thinking patterns that replace actuality with self delusion, implying that the individual actually believes the erroneous thoughts being produced, which makes discussion with the individual a bit problematic, but doesn't imply that we should then remain silent on the issue. In case there's any confusion, Arisha's NLPer tirade is a thinly disguised attack on me. She avoided using my name so that she could freely attack without danger of repercussion, and then report my post when I simply call it insane. I don't know enough about NLP to be qualified to dispute her characterization of NLP, but it hardly seems to matter. It's simply a list of all the derogatory perceptions she's had of me in the past, with an NLP label attached for plausible deniability. Is it possible that in the same way that you see Arisha (and others here) as deluded, insane and lacking in clarity, she/they see the same in you? When you point out an other's delusion, insanity, lack of sincerity, game playing, manipulations and need to twist things in order to be right, you call it 'teaching' or 'pointing towards truth.' When another does it to you, it is called "attacking." It is this (seeming) holding yourself above reproach, this placing yourself in a different category, believing yourself to be completely above the possibility of falling prey to an incorrect perception, that some here take issue with. You seem to regard yourself as a paragon of clarity and most others here as seriously, insanely deluded. But, When we hold tenaciously to any belief, we've closed the door to possibility and thus, to clarity. It cannot be said better. Figgy has said it with the utmost clarity, as she always does.
|
|
|
Post by silver on Nov 18, 2012 15:04:48 GMT -5
Is it possible that in the same way that you see Arisha (and others here) as deluded, insane and lacking in clarity, she/they see the same in you? When you point out an other's delusion, insanity, lack of sincerity, game playing, manipulations and need to twist things in order to be right, you call it 'teaching' or 'pointing towards truth.' When another does it to you, it is called "attacking." It is this (seeming) holding yourself above reproach, this placing yourself in a different category, believing yourself to be completely above the possibility of falling prey to an incorrect perception, that some here take issue with. You seem to regard yourself as a paragon of clarity and most others here as seriously, insanely deluded. But, When we hold tenaciously to any belief, we've closed the door to possibility and thus, to clarity. It cannot be said better. Figgy has said it with the utmost clarity, as she always does. Amen to all of that. I knew you hadn't reported the post. I 'knew' Peter was responding to a pattern that was forming and has been an ongoing one for a long time. And perhaps to satisfy his own curiosity.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Nov 18, 2012 15:05:30 GMT -5
I've used the term multiple times here lately. To be clear, this is the context in which I'm using it. Tolle The "collective insanity" of humans is expressed in the form of thinking patterns that replace actuality with self delusion, implying that the individual actually believes the erroneous thoughts being produced, which makes discussion with the individual a bit problematic, but doesn't imply that we should then remain silent on the issue. In case there's any confusion, Arisha's NLPer tirade is a thinly disguised attack on me. She avoided using my name so that she could freely attack without danger of repercussion, and then report my post when I simply call it insane. I don't know enough about NLP to be qualified to dispute her characterization of NLP, but it hardly seems to matter. It's simply a list of all the derogatory perceptions she's had of me in the past, with an NLP label attached for plausible deniability. Is it possible that in the same way that you see Arisha (and others here) as deluded, insane and lacking in clarity, she/they see the same in you? It's not only possible, it's obviously so. So what? I've never called myself a teacher, but yes, I'm clearly trying to point something out. Are you listening or just flapping your virtual gums? So in your way of thinking, everybody is right or everybody is wrong? If I say the sky is purple and you say it is blue, are we both right or are we both wrong? Are there any other possibilities that you can think of? I'm not even saying I'm right, I'm just questioning the logic of saying one cannot be wrong and the other right. It's some kind of philosophical level playing field that you're working with, and yet even in your assertion, you suggest your rightness and my wrongness. This is part of the insanity, and yet it seems so 'normal' to think that way, doesn't it? If I were successful at holding myself above reproach, I wouldn't be rather continuously reproached, so what does it matter where you think I'm holding myself.....I mean.....well, you know what I mean. If I believe myself to be completely above the possibility of falling prey to an incorrect perception, one would think that somewhere in 13,000 posts you would be able to find where I stated something to that effect. Please retrieve at least one of those post. You also would not be able to find a post where I admit to an incorrect perception. Surely, none of those will turn up in your search. (I like Reef's approach of demanding evidence for the insane NLP trancy programming that you practice here. Alternatively, you're free to STFU.)
|
|
|
Post by arisha on Nov 18, 2012 15:09:18 GMT -5
I think you are confusing N.L.P. with L.Ron Hubbard and Scientology . Many years ago I read his book and was interested in getting what they call edit ted . I wanted to watch them do some one else first just to see how it worked , but the would not let me do that , so I just forgot it . en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L_ron_hubbard en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology desert rat I know about Ron Hubbard, Scientology, and I can say that it's almost the same as NLP. The same very rude approach to people, rude manipulation with their psyche, and a zero of anything positive for those involved. Scientology is prohibited in many countries, it has made a lot of harm, and people who were involved had to have rehabilitation.
|
|
|
Post by figgy on Nov 18, 2012 15:14:58 GMT -5
Is it possible that in the same way that you see Arisha (and others here) as deluded, insane and lacking in clarity, she/they see the same in you? It's not only possible, it's obviously so. So what? I've never called myself a teacher, but yes, I'm clearly trying to point something out. Are you listening or just flapping your virtual gums? So in your way of thinking, everybody is right or everybody is wrong? If I say the sky is purple and you say it is blue, are we both right or are we both wrong? Are there any other possibilities that you can think of? I'm not even saying I'm right, I'm just questioning the logic of saying one cannot be wrong and the other right. It's some kind of philosophical level playing field that you're working with, and yet even in your assertion, you suggest your rightness and my wrongness. This is part of the insanity, and yet it seems so 'normal' to think that way, doesn't it? If I were successful at holding myself above reproach, I wouldn't be rather continuously reproached, so what does it matter where you think I'm holding myself.....I mean.....well, you know what I mean. If I believe myself to be completely above the possibility of falling prey to an incorrect perception, one would think that somewhere in 13,000 posts you would be able to find where I stated something to that effect. Please retrieve at least one of those post. You also would not be able to find a post where I admit to an incorrect perception. Surely, none of those will turn up in your search. (I like Reef's approach of demanding evidence for the insane NLP trancy programming that you practice here. Alternatively, you're free to STFU.) What I'm really trying to say, is that he line between 'attacking' and 'pointing' is a rather fine one, no? And the seeing of one over the other is in the eye of the beholder. You see 'attack' in Arisha's (as well as others here) words of judgment about your state of being, but you don't seem to see 'attack' in your own words of judgment about another's state of being.
|
|
|
Post by topology on Nov 18, 2012 15:17:21 GMT -5
I've used the term multiple times here lately. To be clear, this is the context in which I'm using it. Tolle The "collective insanity" of humans is expressed in the form of thinking patterns that replace actuality with self delusion, implying that the individual actually believes the erroneous thoughts being produced, which makes discussion with the individual a bit problematic, but doesn't imply that we should then remain silent on the issue. In case there's any confusion, Arisha's NLPer tirade is a thinly disguised attack on me. She avoided using my name so that she could freely attack without danger of repercussion, and then report my post when I simply call it insane. I don't know enough about NLP to be qualified to dispute her characterization of NLP, but it hardly seems to matter. It's simply a list of all the derogatory perceptions she's had of me in the past, with an NLP label attached for plausible deniability. Is it possible that in the same way that you see Arisha (and others here) as deluded, insane and lacking in clarity, she/they see the same in you? When you point out an other's delusion, insanity, lack of sincerity, game playing, manipulations and need to twist things in order to be right, you call it 'teaching' or 'pointing towards truth.' When another does it to you, it is called "attacking." It is this (seeming) holding yourself above reproach, this placing yourself in a different category, believing yourself to be completely above the possibility of falling prey to an incorrect perception, that some here take issue with. You seem to regard yourself as a paragon of clarity and most others here as seriously, insanely deluded. But, When we hold tenaciously to any belief, we've closed the door to possibility and thus, to clarity. Setting your conflict with E aside in this instance, Figgy, you tell me. Is Arisha's vilifying NPLers appropriate, healthy, or promoting ease/peace/joy/well-being?
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Nov 18, 2012 15:29:00 GMT -5
I have never reported anybody's posts. I even have never given any positive or negative karma points to anybody. - Peter can confirm that. I see it a little bit childish, that's why. In that case, I misperceived Peter's intention for posting. Lately, he usually responds to posts because they have been reported. Maybe so, but what I saw was that you're NLP tirade followed our accusations of your use of NLP methods, which you didn't seem pleased about. But all of that is just happening in your imagination, not in real life. It makes a difference. That's the insanity I'm referring to. Is this you "speaking our own language" again? Some members do this on a pretty regular basis (You, Silver, Figandrew, not to mention any names) but not Reefs and Enigma. You seem to be speaking YOUR language, not mine.
|
|
|
Post by arisha on Nov 18, 2012 15:36:59 GMT -5
NLPers and the like has created their ugly image themselves. The ugly meaning of it is in their rude manipulations of others FOR THE SAKE of controlling and dominating. Their approach aims at creating such structures in the psyche which make the person believe they can be above others, and this is how those techniques build confidence in those who lack it. So, they build confidence in their clients at the expense of others. Confidence should and can be built with other methods which don't destroy others dignity.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Nov 18, 2012 15:40:57 GMT -5
It's not only possible, it's obviously so. So what? I've never called myself a teacher, but yes, I'm clearly trying to point something out. Are you listening or just flapping your virtual gums? So in your way of thinking, everybody is right or everybody is wrong? If I say the sky is purple and you say it is blue, are we both right or are we both wrong? Are there any other possibilities that you can think of? I'm not even saying I'm right, I'm just questioning the logic of saying one cannot be wrong and the other right. It's some kind of philosophical level playing field that you're working with, and yet even in your assertion, you suggest your rightness and my wrongness. This is part of the insanity, and yet it seems so 'normal' to think that way, doesn't it? If I were successful at holding myself above reproach, I wouldn't be rather continuously reproached, so what does it matter where you think I'm holding myself.....I mean.....well, you know what I mean. If I believe myself to be completely above the possibility of falling prey to an incorrect perception, one would think that somewhere in 13,000 posts you would be able to find where I stated something to that effect. Please retrieve at least one of those post. You also would not be able to find a post where I admit to an incorrect perception. Surely, none of those will turn up in your search. (I like Reef's approach of demanding evidence for the insane NLP trancy programming that you practice here. Alternatively, you're free to STFU.) What I'm really trying to say, is that he line between 'attacking' and 'pointing' is a rather fine one, no? And the seeing of one over the other is in the eye of the beholder. Of course. How could it possibly be any more obvious? Why do you feel you need to point that out at all? Right. So what's your point again?
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Nov 18, 2012 15:46:50 GMT -5
Is it possible that in the same way that you see Arisha (and others here) as deluded, insane and lacking in clarity, she/they see the same in you? When you point out an other's delusion, insanity, lack of sincerity, game playing, manipulations and need to twist things in order to be right, you call it 'teaching' or 'pointing towards truth.' When another does it to you, it is called "attacking." It is this (seeming) holding yourself above reproach, this placing yourself in a different category, believing yourself to be completely above the possibility of falling prey to an incorrect perception, that some here take issue with. You seem to regard yourself as a paragon of clarity and most others here as seriously, insanely deluded. But, When we hold tenaciously to any belief, we've closed the door to possibility and thus, to clarity. Setting your conflict with E aside in this instance, Figgy, you tell me. Is Arisha's vilifying NPLers appropriate, healthy, or promoting ease/peace/joy/well-being? All of her friends would get away with such a posting, and none of her enemies would, and yet she would be aghast at the notion that her perception is distorted in that way. It's part of the insanity.
|
|
|
Post by arisha on Nov 18, 2012 15:51:55 GMT -5
I have never reported anybody's posts. I even have never given any positive or negative karma points to anybody. - Peter can confirm that. I see it a little bit childish, that's why. In that case, I misperceived Peter's intention for posting. Lately, he usually responds to posts because they have been reported. Maybe so, but what I saw was that you're NLP tirade followed our accusations of your use of NLP methods, which you didn't seem pleased about. But all of that is just happening in your imagination, not in real life. It makes a difference. That's the insanity I'm referring to. Is this you "speaking our own language" again? Some members do this on a pretty regular basis (You, Silver, Figandrew, not to mention any names) but not Reefs and Enigma. You seem to be speaking YOUR language, not mine. If I used NLP method I used it unconsciously, I already said about that. Yes, I tried to be speaking your language. You say that the distortions and twisting you regularly use are in my imagination. Then I have to say that you don't understand what you are doing when you distort the meaning of what was said and present it in a different context. I cannot believe, though, that you don't understand when you use different contexts which completely change the meaning. You ask again, in your reply to Figgy, about examples of your posts. But you had already been answered that the examples are in your use of diferent contexts. And you were immediately given such an example in another thread where you twisted again, changing the context.
|
|