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Post by kate on Mar 18, 2011 8:52:20 GMT -5
I am probably going to ramble a bit here but I’m not very good at being concise with this stuff.
For quite a while I’ve felt like I wanted to ask something but haven’t known what it was. And I still don’t know what it is, but maybe this makes sense to someone?
For some time now I have had no questions while still feeling like I’m short an answer. Conceptually all this stuff makes complete sense to me, intellectually I am all yes, yes, yes. I wasn't initially but I got there. I’m still very drawn to people who speak about it with clarity and so I hang around places like this. Sometimes, in the course of the back and forth, a word, a metaphor or a question busts things open for me a little so I can take a closer look at something.
It seems obvious that I can’t do anything myself, that there is no moving forward and when I look back there’s nothing there. And so all of this, including what I am typing here, it feels like I’m just making it all up - this whole notion of a process and something happening. How can nothing be happening and yet things not be the same? Or maybe they are the same and I’ve just convinced myself they are different by going on some ridiculous convoluted mental treadmill? At this point I start to feel a little crazy.
Does any of that make sense? It doesn’t bear thinking about, does it?
And yet, and yet…
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Post by teknix on Mar 18, 2011 9:43:57 GMT -5
Because you are looking at a paradox. A pitfall of the mind that gets your spirit chasing his tail.
Nothing can't be happening, nothing doesn't exist.
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Post by someNOTHING! on Mar 18, 2011 10:34:06 GMT -5
Hi Kate (and all you old timers!),
It appears that you’re slipping (have slipped?) into uncharted territory. Your conditioned ego doesn’t like this, so it starts throwing out all kinds of crap for you to pay attention to and remain/get lost in the world of delusion. Feel tempted back into the big drama used to create that sense of “other” against which the ego can create a relationship and maintain the illusion of a separate existence?
Experientially (not just mentally), have you slipped past this little bugger yet? Either way, it’s all good.
If so, difficulties may be arising because you are now trying to reconcile what you once “thought” you were with what you now sense to be a “truer being”. Done almost habitually, the former idea of a separate self exists on unexamined assumptions/thoughts/ideas/etc thus giving a certain continuity to the dreamland you walked around in most of your life. From the latter, (if an awakening event has happened, you likely have experienced a profound hoobahoohoohoo thingy) all of these things arise, and is what YOU actually are prior to any differentiation. Identifying with the “thought-misconceived I”, you’ll be easily drawn back into the ongoing drama and likely get lost which, interestingly, seems to be perfectly so. Who really knows?
Also interestingly, if you have identified with the “thought-misconceived I” AND you are looking to “get back to” the source, you won’t really see anything when you look for it. For an ego trying to relate to something so it can feel any sense of being, that’s not so cool. Typically, the ego gets bored, irritated (and any other common emotional outburst you might recognize) and wanders off looking for something else, because nothing just ain’t that cool. Ego liked a little something to keep the love of self alive. There’s no convincing ego otherwise, so don’t go there, unless you just want to see how pointless it is.
Resting into that profound awareness/silence/utter spaciousness that is prior to all "experience", permeates and encompasses everything might be a cool trick for you for now. Perhaps, play around with what happens when you hang out there and withhold attention to “things” “of this world”, or just see what happens when you catch yourself just before reacting to some thing that used to catch your attention. Notice importance falling away. If your mind gets agitated by this falling away, notice what is trying to consolidate into “a self” and exist separate from the whole. It’s really freakin’ cool stuff when you can detach from it and see it for what it is. Beautiful.
Or, I guess you could just sit there and be. Crazier things have happened I reckon.
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Post by teknix on Mar 18, 2011 11:00:30 GMT -5
someNOTHING is beckoning you into the abyss.
Have you been at the RT site or listening to mooji?
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Post by zendancer on Mar 18, 2011 12:17:30 GMT -5
SomeNothing: Welcome back! Your clarity is always appreciated. Cheers.
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Post by klaus on Mar 18, 2011 15:29:59 GMT -5
Hey! Hey! someNOTHING. Good to hear from you.
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Post by someNOTHING! on Mar 18, 2011 20:18:53 GMT -5
ZD- Ha! Clarity?! You know I have more of a ramblin' style! hehe I imagine you're looking forward to some spring hikes....weather is warming up nicely hear! Enjoy.
Klaus- I hope all has continued to go well for you and yours. IT has been an interesting winding road from this window.
Kate- Is what you're feeling/thinking/seeing analogous having slept REAL hard, and then suddenly standing up and running through the house with your eyes all mucked up bouncing into walls and stuff, all the while trying to figure out where your are and what century it is and what's going on? If so, congratulations! waahoooo!!
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Post by klaus on Mar 18, 2011 21:27:49 GMT -5
ZD- Ha! Clarity?! You know I have more of a ramblin' style! hehe I imagine you're looking forward to some spring hikes....weather is warming up nicely hear! Enjoy. Klaus- I hope all has continued to go well for you and yours. IT has been an interesting winding road from this window. Kate- Is what you're feeling/thinking/seeing analogous having slept REAL hard, and then suddenly standing up and running through the house with your eyes all mucked up bouncing into walls and stuff, all the while trying to figure out where your are and what century it is and what's going on? If so, congratulations! waahoooo!! I'll bet IT has, ha, ha!
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Post by kate on Mar 19, 2011 2:12:09 GMT -5
someNOTHING is beckoning you into the abyss. Have you been at the RT site or listening to mooji? I'm not sure if this is a question for me or not, but if it is: no and no.
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Post by kate on Mar 19, 2011 2:22:59 GMT -5
Kate- Is what you're feeling/thinking/seeing analogous having slept REAL hard, and then suddenly standing up and running through the house with your eyes all mucked up bouncing into walls and stuff, all the while trying to figure out where your are and what century it is and what's going on? If so, congratulations! waahoooo!! Hm, kind of. Some of what you said earlier resonates. It's like my mind has been told that the relationship is not working out and we should just be friends and now it's jumping around trying to convince me to give it one last chance, that it can give me what I need. But my heart isn't in it and I'm just not that interested anymore. An analogy that talks about hearts and minds probably isn't the best one, but there it is. I'm actually kind of bored by the talk and the concepts but I'm still playing around with them thinking maybe they might produce something. Flogging a dead horse. Avoiding letting them go and dealing with what is actually here beyond the words and the ideas. Sometimes I wonder how long I will keep it up for. Can a person go on in this in between place deluding themselves for years?
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Post by enigma on Mar 19, 2011 2:55:19 GMT -5
"It's like my mind has been told that the relationship is not working out and we should just be friends and now it's jumping around trying to convince me to give it one last chance, that it can give me what I need." Naw, kick it to the curb.
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Post by kate on Mar 19, 2011 4:07:45 GMT -5
"It's like my mind has been told that the relationship is not working out and we should just be friends and now it's jumping around trying to convince me to give it one last chance, that it can give me what I need." Naw, kick it to the curb. It just sits out the front in the gutter. Drinking whiskey and crying. "All these years you lead me to believe I was number one, the center of everything and now you want to be friends??? Give me one more chance! THERE'S SIDES OF ME YOU'VE NEVER SEEN!"
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Post by teknix on Mar 19, 2011 5:10:21 GMT -5
I hope you find some clearity kate. <3 All the answers are already within you. It's your primal instinct.
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Post by zendancer on Mar 19, 2011 9:17:58 GMT -5
"It's like my mind has been told that the relationship is not working out and we should just be friends and now it's jumping around trying to convince me to give it one last chance, that it can give me what I need." Naw, kick it to the curb. It just sits out the front in the gutter. Drinking whiskey and crying. "All these years you lead me to believe I was number one, the center of everything and now you want to be friends??? Give me one more chance! THERE'S SIDES OF ME YOU'VE NEVER SEEN!" Oh, I love this post. E.'s right. It's time to turn your back on the mind and leave that sucker behind. It's led you into fantasy after fantasy all these years, and it want's a second chance? Sc**w that! What can you see? Stay with the actual until you find Rumi's field where the world is too full to talk about. Lay down in that infinite grass and leave the mind in that other world. Read this forum. There are two different worlds being discussed here. Your body knows which one is real.
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Post by angela on Mar 19, 2011 10:00:27 GMT -5
kate - your situation is so familiar to me. when you first posted i almost cried, i feel where you're at, deeply..... about a month ago i wrote a note to our zendancer which i then posted on my blog because i felt like it really summed up the whole scenario pretty well.... surrenderingangela.blogspot.com/2011/02/more-on-no-one-doing-no-one-home.htmli feel really lucky that i consider adya my teacher in so many ways, he's been a good guide with preparing me for noting that this stage was coming. the stage when we just grow SICK TO DEATH of all the "spiritual" stuff, all the concepts, and are being just vacuumed out in such a profound way. there's nothing left to reference, no points that are solid on which to stand, personal will at this point is a joke and there's really nothing left to DO.... the mental response to my whole being knowing, for certain, that IT is RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW and there is nothing left to do.... the mind goes "oh!! but if i give up i'll never get it!!" and then my being has this belly laugh like, uh, dude. that's kind of the point. and then i sigh, because laughter, right now, is short lived and there's really just..... __________________________________________________________________ so. thank you for writing this. it's vulnerable to just come up in here and admit you don't know anything anymore, and that it's all grown thin and weird. with great love - angela ps - lovelovelove the image of the mind as the soon to be ex laying in the gutter with whiskey, crying and singing.... mine's doing that too. maybe we can get them distracted with each other in a game of "my pain is worse than yours" and you and i can run off to a field and pick flowers?
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