anonji
Junior Member
Posts: 62
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Post by anonji on Jun 3, 2009 6:04:07 GMT -5
Thanks! I'm not really worried about enlightenment right now. I'm really not worried about progress anymore in that way. "I" seem to be extremely susceptible to this for some reason. For Bernadette Roberts it seems it took 20 years or so from awakening to enlightenment.. Maybe I will be worried about reaching that at some later time. Right now there is only a longing for stability in some way. I'm kind of curious if there is something like "stable unity", I mean a place where one will be for a while and get used to? I'm still kind of falling apart so I wonder if I will hit the bottom in some way:) It took me about 19 years from the initial awakening event (IAE). The end state is nothing like what they write; it is a very ordinary place to be. However, you are 180 degrees away from the rest of the world. The IAE is just a glimpse of what this new life is like. From that point onward is it just integrating it, getting used to it; or like Bernadette Roberts would say, "living it in the marketplace of life." The entire process is a shift from the life where ego and intellect are primary, to one where sensory information is primary. This is variously called "immediate experience", "pure awareness," etc. It is a blessing and curse at the same time. You will no longer be of the world, but it won't bother you. Try to find a vocation that you can tolerate because you will not be able to fit in with the ways of the world. I have written about this transition on my blog if it will be any help to you. Please go to www.natural-life.org.
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Post by lightmystic on Jun 3, 2009 11:16:52 GMT -5
Well, it's true that there are some very marked differences, but there's nothing that says that you won't be able to do this or that, or won't relate to this or that. It's true that a lot of old ideas and fixations and so forth drop off, and attachment to having a normal life or doing anything specific can only get in the way. That said, There's nothing that says your life will or won't look like anything on the surface. After all, there is nothing that Awareness isn't. "People who are Aware don't do X" just doesn't apply... See what I'm saying? Thanks! I'm not really worried about enlightenment right now. I'm really not worried about progress anymore in that way. "I" seem to be extremely susceptible to this for some reason. For Bernadette Roberts it seems it took 20 years or so from awakening to enlightenment.. Maybe I will be worried about reaching that at some later time. Right now there is only a longing for stability in some way. I'm kind of curious if there is something like "stable unity", I mean a place where one will be for a while and get used to? I'm still kind of falling apart so I wonder if I will hit the bottom in some way:) It took me about 19 years from the initial awakening event (IAE). The end state is nothing like what they write; it is a very ordinary place to be. However, you are 180 degrees away from the rest of the world. The IAE is just a glimpse of what this new life is like. From that point onward is it just integrating it, getting used to it; or like Bernadette Roberts would say, "living it in the marketplace of life." The entire process is a shift from the life where ego and intellect are primary, to one where sensory information is primary. This is variously called "immediate experience", "pure awareness," etc. It is a blessing and curse at the same time. You will no longer be of the world, but it won't bother you. Try to find a vocation that you can tolerate because you will not be able to fit in with the ways of the world. I have written about this transition on my blog if it will be any help to you. Please go to www.natural-life.org.
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Post by anotherson on Jun 9, 2009 16:10:01 GMT -5
Please, read this and let it in. Of course, only after you let it all out.
The Tao that is talked about is not the true Tao. The Name that can be named is not the eternal Name. Those that have felt the pressence of All that IS Know language is utterly lacking.
Heaven and Eath and I were born at the same time, and all life and I are one. Reads like Jesus of Nazareth 300 years later or so. Mind you, One does not come bofore the Other.
The perfect man has no self; The spiritual man has no merit; The holy man has no fame.
Namaste, anotherson
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Post by souley on Jun 12, 2009 15:50:30 GMT -5
I have been feeling a lot more peaceful this last week. It is in a way like I have hit bottom. I think about something that would previously make me spin in a fear-style manner, but nothing happens. I like "meh" and can't be bothered with all that any more.
Today when standing in line for lunch I thought a bit about the feeling of nothing that is a part of awakening. It kind of hit me that why would there be anything? Every something is something that I have constructed. The feeling of nothing is just a return to the natural state. Then this led into something like, what is nothing or something anyway? It all seems like concepts and I can't really relate them to anything. Very intellectual.. but fun.
Later I was riding the bus and I thought about "accepting that I am the awareness". I have since long kind of figured that I don't know what that even means. But this time something happened. It was a bit like "wait a minute, maybe this feeling of just being, is me?", which felt like.. "yeah, damn that just makes sense". And this led to the next thing "but what the hell, I've been totally identified with my thoughts all along!!".
This was not very dramatic, but it is the first time on this long extreme journey that I have felt this identification with thought so clearly. My thoughts are my own image of myself. I think, therefore I am. Every thought is extremely loaded with a sense of I, and have been so as long as memory can reach. The intellectual or conceptual understanding of some kind of identification has been there since I started reading about it of course, but this was real.
But there is generally no trust in anything like "yeah now I have found it". Doubting everything! Poking along, letting it unfold. Insights like the above have been more common now when I am more relaxed. It is a pretty good place to be actually! The world has been my enemy for a while now, but now I like it again, which of course is what I wanted all along:)
I guess its a bit "union"-ish, but I continually underestimate everything so who knows. The craving for more is strooong..
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Post by souley on Jun 12, 2009 15:53:25 GMT -5
It took me about 19 years from the initial awakening event (IAE). The end state is nothing like what they write; it is a very ordinary place to be. However, you are 180 degrees away from the rest of the world. The IAE is just a glimpse of what this new life is like. From that point onward is it just integrating it, getting used to it; or like Bernadette Roberts would say, "living it in the marketplace of life." The entire process is a shift from the life where ego and intellect are primary, to one where sensory information is primary. This is variously called "immediate experience", "pure awareness," etc. It is a blessing and curse at the same time. You will no longer be of the world, but it won't bother you. Try to find a vocation that you can tolerate because you will not be able to fit in with the ways of the world. I have written about this transition on my blog if it will be any help to you. Please go to www.natural-life.org. I liked your blog and the simplicity, it has actually helped me a lot this week. What do you mean about finding a vocation? Like, an occupation? English is as you can figure not my native language:)
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anonji
Junior Member
Posts: 62
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Post by anonji on Jun 13, 2009 7:51:53 GMT -5
I liked your blog and the simplicity, it has actually helped me a lot this week. What do you mean about finding a vocation? Like, an occupation? English is as you can figure not my native language:) I'm glad to be of some help. Yes, a vocation is an occupation. For us it really means some kind of work that is compatible, or at least will not interfere with our spiritual life. I work at home on my computer doing remote IT work. I am solitary and remain in silence for most of the day. It suits me well.
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Post by lightmystic on Jun 13, 2009 14:42:50 GMT -5
very nice! Yes, that is the moment of Awakening. As you say, it's not flashy (at least not usually - it wasn't for me). It's not a big deal on some level, and it's not necessarily meaning anything specific other than that you know you are That. Still, it's the first point of no return. And that's pretty cool if you ask me! It's certainly understandable that the desire to grow does not end there. This is just the beginning... It's really from here that you can start to really examine the relationship between That which you are and "everything else." That's where real unity comes from... I have been feeling a lot more peaceful this last week. It is in a way like I have hit bottom. I think about something that would previously make me spin in a fear-style manner, but nothing happens. I like "meh" and can't be bothered with all that any more. Today when standing in line for lunch I thought a bit about the feeling of nothing that is a part of awakening. It kind of hit me that why would there be anything? Every something is something that I have constructed. The feeling of nothing is just a return to the natural state. Then this led into something like, what is nothing or something anyway? It all seems like concepts and I can't really relate them to anything. Very intellectual.. but fun. Later I was riding the bus and I thought about "accepting that I am the awareness". I have since long kind of figured that I don't know what that even means. But this time something happened. It was a bit like "wait a minute, maybe this feeling of just being, is me?", which felt like.. "yeah, d**n that just makes sense". And this led to the next thing "but what the hell, I've been totally identified with my thoughts all along!!". This was not very dramatic, but it is the first time on this long extreme journey that I have felt this identification with thought so clearly. My thoughts are my own image of myself. I think, therefore I am. Every thought is extremely loaded with a sense of I, and have been so as long as memory can reach. The intellectual or conceptual understanding of some kind of identification has been there since I started reading about it of course, but this was real. But there is generally no trust in anything like "yeah now I have found it". Doubting everything! Poking along, letting it unfold. Insights like the above have been more common now when I am more relaxed. It is a pretty good place to be actually! The world has been my enemy for a while now, but now I like it again, which of course is what I wanted all along:) I guess its a bit "union"-ish, but I continually underestimate everything so who knows. The craving for more is strooong..
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Post by souley on Jun 14, 2009 6:56:35 GMT -5
very nice! Yes, that is the moment of Awakening. As you say, it's not flashy (at least not usually - it wasn't for me). It's not a big deal on some level, and it's not necessarily meaning anything specific other than that you know you are That. Still, it's the first point of no return. And that's pretty cool if you ask me! It's certainly understandable that the desire to grow does not end there. This is just the beginning... It's really from here that you can start to really examine the relationship between That which you are and "everything else." That's where real unity comes from... I would have thought that I was beyond the point of no return a long time ago.. But I must say I don't feel very certain about being this or that, I had that experience that I described in the previous post, but it's not very clear. Not related, but awesome, I quote wikipedia: My love for this man continues!!
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Post by lightmystic on Jun 14, 2009 11:32:23 GMT -5
Hey Souley, Yeah, Einstein is pretty amazing. For the record, your English is quite good. I didn't know it wasn't your first language! It might certainly be the case that you were past the point of no return a long time ago.... So, if I might ask, what was the difference between after you made that recognition on the bus versus before? I would have thought that I was beyond the point of no return a long time ago.. But I must say I don't feel very certain about being this or that, I had that experience that I described in the previous post, but it's not very clear. Not related, but awesome, I quote wikipedia: My love for this man continues!!
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Post by souley on Jun 14, 2009 14:42:59 GMT -5
Hey Souley, Yeah, Einstein is pretty amazing. For the record, your English is quite good. I didn't know it wasn't your first language! It might certainly be the case that you were past the point of no return a long time ago.... So, if I might ask, what was the difference between after you made that recognition on the bus versus before? Well thanks but you should hear me speak then!! Where previously I didn't know what it meant to accept the awareness, I think there is now a certain understanding of what that concept points to:) It might be accessible, I can't really say for sure at this time. By this time I'm probably a bit careful about "believing" stuff. I realized that I'm continuously trying to better myself, "getting rid of issues" etc. What a total ego thing this is! I felt such relief from myself when I saw this in myself today, it was hilarious. Give my poor self a break will I! I quote Douglas Harding: Why am I trying to reform Douglas? What is the point? The only purpose of value at all is to give people a less difficult time around me. But I am not sure that I can do that. The attempt to improve Douglas is the attempt to foist on him the perfection of Who I am Here at the Center. That is impossible. My motive for polishing up Douglas is very devious indeed. The only safe thing is to be aware of--and to be prepared to be humiliated by--what I find there.I read that a long time ago, it is always great to experience and recognize wisdom like this
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Post by souley on Jul 28, 2009 11:01:34 GMT -5
There is less and less interest to post here, even though I think progress is pretty good. I think this is because there is less me, there isn't so much here that wants to boast about what he has accomplished.
I just want to connect with everything, especially nature. I've had a really void moment, where "I" just fell away, it was obvious what I was, because what I previously though myself to be was not there anymore. And weirdly enough there was no fear. I was like "wtf, why is there no fear?", while in the middle of the experience. The jump from my day-to-day place to that place wasn't big anymore.
It's just a great relief to be able to be connected and feel the natural love to the world. This is really the only thing I want and have ever really wanted. It is so obvious, all the really good moments I've had in my life is this freedom and connectedness to life. Sometimes I get totally nostalgic, like "yeah this is what it was like growing up, not having it all taped, and just feel the magic of the world".
And it really feels like just the beginning, the feelings I'm describing here are pretty low key.
There is alot of questions I could ask you LM, and during this journey there have been many more, but since I don't ask them it seems that I just want to find out for myself.
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Post by lightmystic on Jul 28, 2009 11:49:36 GMT -5
Well said souley. That's it. It sounds like the end that everyone talks about, but, in reality - as you say - it's really just the beginning something new. A new way of existing. And even that keeps growing. The only difference that I've seen (other than the inherent safety, the overall enjoyment, and the rate of growth) is that the knowledge that grows never seems to invalidate the previous knowledge, but seems to contain it. It's starts to create what I call an infinite structure. Something is built, but each piece is itself infinite - the entire picture - and so there is no dissatisfaction in it. And it cannot really be said, because none of it is conceptual - it can only be pointed to, which is what I try to do. It's very important to talk about experience when it's being integrated (at least, for many people), but once it's integrated there is no reason to talk about it. So other than interesting discussions and explorations of the experience, which is fun if the desire arises, there is really nothing to say. It can be nice to help point people as that feels wonderful and helps me go deeper into it and helps me talk about it, and you are welcome to help like you have been...but there is nothing that you need do or not do unless it occurs to you.... I appreciate what you said about it just being the beginning though, because that recognition that there is always more, no matter how wonderful and complete it is, IS the recognition of the natural flow of Life, which is what we are, as you know. And the development of that is something that would be very much fun to talk to about later when/if you have the inclination. Anyway, it's wonderful to hear how you're doing my friend. Thanks for your post. There is less and less interest to post here, even though I think progress is pretty good. I think this is because there is less me, there isn't so much here that wants to boast about what he has accomplished. I just want to connect with everything, especially nature. I've had a really void moment, where "I" just fell away, it was obvious what I was, because what I previously though myself to be was not there anymore. And weirdly enough there was no fear. I was like "wtf, why is there no fear?", while in the middle of the experience. The jump from my day-to-day place to that place wasn't big anymore. It's just a great relief to be able to be connected and feel the natural love to the world. This is really the only thing I want and have ever really wanted. It is so obvious, all the really good moments I've had in my life is this freedom and connectedness to life. Sometimes I get totally nostalgic, like "yeah this is what it was like growing up, not having it all taped, and just feel the magic of the world". And it really feels like just the beginning, the feelings I'm describing here are pretty low key. There is alot of questions I could ask you LM, and during this journey there have been many more, but since I don't ask them it seems that I just want to find out for myself.
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Post by souley on Jul 28, 2009 13:02:17 GMT -5
It is a relief to just go into this alone, without conceptions. Then there is less doubt about the experience, and the less concepts I have about it the more open I can be about it - and it is so amazing to be open. There is probably some fear of not being open enough, why risk creating more conceptual junk I have little doubt that I would like to discuss these things a great deal as it integrates more and more! Thanks for all the support!
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Post by lightmystic on Jul 29, 2009 13:16:36 GMT -5
Hey alpha, I appreciate what you're saying. It really never occurred to me to culture a relationship with it until it was suggested to me either. If you are aware of that void, or that higher self, or that field of consciousness (however you want to talk about it) - you can actually treat it like a person, and start to share emotions back and forth. You can almost talk to it on a nonverbal level. Have something like a conversation. And this should bring the heart closer together with it. This is a person that can be related to intimately... It's just an infinite person....And you are not separate or different from that person, although that doesn't mean you can't relate to it anymore just because you realize you are it.... See if that works, starts to form a familiarity with it as a person, starts to make you feel emotionally closer to it, get the heart involved a little more. Let me know if that seems to help.... There is less and less interest to post here, even though I think progress is pretty good. I think this is because there is less me, ther seems that I just want to find out for myself. I believe that many seekers, like me, who seldom post, are silently helped along the path by reading the exchanges between the more enlightend on this forum,and you souley are one of those,keep us informed... In the country where I live (Ireland) I dont know of one enlightend teacher,I believe that I have an Inner guide as I have been receiving "Insights" over many years, but now LM says "culture a relationship" Its funny that I never thought of this myself, but now I will give my attention to it, though Im not sure how best to go about it.
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Post by vacant on Jul 30, 2009 3:51:00 GMT -5
LM, your response here to Alpha comes as a useful continuation to what you last posted on the "importance of a teacher" thread. Taking your advice I've been engaging in a more intimate "conversation", I enjoy the sense of progress in that direction, but I also worry that by treating It as a person I reinforce the separateness. Silly? Mental garbage?
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