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Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 13, 2009 12:42:47 GMT -5
Hi everyone Light Mystic asked me to share a bit about myself so I started a new thread with the same titled just the other one was getting too long for me.
I could write a book about my past and my teachers but I agree with LM that what is going on now currently is really the kernal of sharing with this topic.
OK LM I will start not sure if you will like this but for sometime now since I had a awakening nothing really changed at all for me except now I see things as they really are wheras before I saw things as I thought were.
Ok as they are for me now is this; I see life happening as just that a happening no purpose at all really where before I fely everything had a purpose and reason to it. In a way life now for me is seen as just a game with really no one in the game. The Oneness which I also call the watcher is all there is. When I watch the news and I see a bombing that happened and killed 30 people or whatever I know that nothing really happened. It is not easy at all to talk of these things because words will always fall short of the meaning.
But through out this game there have been hints given to us. One of the most clear hints was in a question asked of God which was why God who are we, where did we come from, why do we have such a world filled with anger, killing, etc etc . God answered and said I was bored being alone so I created this game, the world, the people and all that goes on. This answer comes close to the way things are but still falls way short of it. Since I awaken I do all the same things as before but now I do not indentfiy them as being seperate things or things at all. I see them or life as a happening, this happens, that happens and in that happening whatever it is I find the one and only truth which is the Oneness or aliveness is always there, not only there but everything is this Oneness and it is not everything it is nothing or you can say both everything and nothing. So when I am happy then happiness happens, when I amd sad then sadness is happening, when I feel full of love then love is happening but I am not any of these emotions I am no one but this the Isness I am.
I Am that I Am.
Ok LM or whoever feel free to give a poke or whatever afterall it is all a game. Randyji
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Post by lightmystic on Jan 13, 2009 14:13:54 GMT -5
Wonderful, thanks for taking the time to post this. "OK LM I will start not sure if you will like this but for sometime now since I had a awakening nothing really changed at all for me except now I see things as they really are wheras before I saw things as I thought were."
I find that too, but how things really are happens to be quite a bit different for me from what I thought they were. I see life happening as just that a happening no purpose at all really where before I felt everything had a purpose and reason to it. In a way life now for me is seen as just a game with really no one in the game. The Oneness which I also call the watcher is all there is. When I watch the news and I see a bombing that happened and killed 30 people or whatever I know that nothing really happened. It is not easy at all to talk of these things because words will always fall short of the meaning.Of course it's not easy to talk about, but you seem to be alluding to the nondual flow, the basic rightness to life that seems to underly all. It doesn't need a purpose. It's it's own purpose. That's more or less what you're saying, yes? It seems that it's natural to say that nothing really happened and it's not real because none of the appearances are really separate or really finite. And that is a totally valid Understanding of the Experience in my opinion. That's mostly the way I understand my experience also. Recently, however, Life keeps poking me, showing me that, perhaps, just because it's really not separate and really not limited doesn't mean the maya is not real. It's just real in it's own way. We could understand that all of relativity is merely a conception, an idea, but if all of everything is simply an idea, then ideas ARE what's real, it's just they're not really separate, limited "parts" if that makes sense. What do you think? Hi everyone Light Mystic asked me to share a bit about myself so I started a new thread with the same titled just the other one was getting too long for me. I could write a book about my past and my teachers but I agree with LM that what is going on now currently is really the kernal of sharing with this topic. OK LM I will start not sure if you will like this but for sometime now since I had a awakening nothing really changed at all for me except now I see things as they really are wheras before I saw things as I thought were. Ok as they are for me now is this; I see life happening as just that a happening no purpose at all really where before I felt everything had a purpose and reason to it. In a way life now for me is seen as just a game with really no one in the game. The Oneness which I also call the watcher is all there is. When I watch the news and I see a bombing that happened and killed 30 people or whatever I know that nothing really happened. It is not easy at all to talk of these things because words will always fall short of the meaning. But through out this game there have been hints given to us. One of the most clear hints was in a question asked of God which was why God who are we, where did we come from, why do we have such a world filled with anger, killing, etc etc . God answered and said I was bored being alone so I created this game, the world, the people and all that goes on. This answer comes close to the way things are but still falls way short of it. Since I awaken I do all the same things as before but now I do not indentfiy them as being seperate things or things at all. I see them or life as a happening, this happens, that happens and in that happening whatever it is I find the one and only truth which is the Oneness or aliveness is always there, not only there but everything is this Oneness and it is not everything it is nothing or you can say both everything and nothing. So when I am happy then happiness happens, when I amd sad then sadness is happening, when I feel full of love then love is happening but I am not any of these emotions I am no one but this the Isness I am. I Am that I Am. Ok LM or whoever feel free to give a poke or whatever afterall it is all a game. Randyji
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Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 13, 2009 16:48:28 GMT -5
Wonderful, thanks for taking the time to post this. "OK LM I will start not sure if you will like this but for sometime now since I had a awakening nothing really changed at all for me except now I see things as they really are wheras before I saw things as I thought were."
I find that too, but how things really are happens to be quite a bit different for me from what I thought they were. I see life happening as just that a happening no purpose at all really where before I felt everything had a purpose and reason to it. In a way life now for me is seen as just a game with really no one in the game. The Oneness which I also call the watcher is all there is. When I watch the news and I see a bombing that happened and killed 30 people or whatever I know that nothing really happened. It is not easy at all to talk of these things because words will always fall short of the meaning.Of course it's not easy to talk about, but you seem to be alluding to the nondual flow, the basic rightness to life that seems to underly all. It doesn't need a purpose. It's it's own purpose. That's more or less what you're saying, yes? It seems that it's natural to say that nothing really happened and it's not real because none of the appearances are really separate or really finite. And that is a totally valid Understanding of the Experience in my opinion. That's mostly the way I understand my experience also. Recently, however, Life keeps poking me, showing me that, perhaps, just because it's really not separate and really not limited doesn't mean the maya is not real. It's just real in it's own way. We could understand that all of relativity is merely a conception, an idea, but if all of everything is simply an idea, then ideas ARE what's real, it's just they're not really separate, limited "parts" if that makes sense. What do you think? ***************************** I think I know what you mean if not please feel free to correct me. Also words really suck on this level of conversation so feel free to add your own words if mine do not seem to fit. On the level of mind then you can correctly say Maya, ideas are very real. You can also the same thing about thoughts being real. Now as you know no one has ownership of thoughts they are not mine, yours or anyones they just appear and flow right? And where do thoughts come from? Now it is the same way with ideas and Maya. They are all part of this game we play in called life and with that brings a sense of action, reaction and cause. The most amazing thing with all this is that we as a people think we are actually doing something with it. Randyji
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Post by lightmystic on Jan 14, 2009 11:25:56 GMT -5
Exactly. The only other thing I would add that I've noticed is that any conception of separate existence is just that, a conception, a concept. The mind that has it's own thoughts, opinions, identities, or whatever is the same function that divides up life into a livable existence for us. It's, of course, useful and not completely arbitrary, as there is some structure, but it doesn't "limit" anything, and other ways of dividing it can (and for me often are) found to be just as valid. Thus, the point is that I've noticed all of experience is essentially thoughts, because it's the way the experience are conceived and categorized that makes up reality. They are just thought forms on a deeper, more subtle level, but it's exactly the same thing. Thus, thoughts are real because they ARE the entirety of all relative existence.
I hope that was clear. Does that make sense to you?
***************************** "I think I know what you mean if not please feel free to correct me. Also words really suck on this level of conversation so feel free to add your own words if mine do not seem to fit.On the level of mind then you can correctly say Maya, ideas are very real. You can also the same thing about thoughts being real. Now as you know no one has ownership of thoughts they are not mine, yours or anyones they just appear and flow right? And where do thoughts come from? Now it is the same way with ideas and Maya. They are all part of this game we play in called life and with that brings a sense of action, reaction and cause.
The most amazing thing with all this is that we as a people think we are actually doing something with it.
Randyji"
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Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 14, 2009 23:42:35 GMT -5
Hi LM,
I see thoughts as being real as far as the level of mind. If that is what you mean. This everyday world that we have a sense of it is created by the mind so then on its own level I would say it is real. Of course the only real reality is the awareness that is now as I know you know. Not sure if I really got what you were asking. Cheers Randy
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fear
Full Member
Posts: 128
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Post by fear on Jan 15, 2009 3:05:01 GMT -5
I hope you guys can take this criticism, but I don't think you are fully awake yet. Something in me just does not relate to what you guys speak of. Plus you are too involved in this site to be fully realized, I don't think you would spend so much time typing online, adding more maya to this maya. I do think you are both quite advanced and I'm so happy to have some contact with people interested in the same things I am but an enlightened being would never claim enligtenment.
If you find yourself getting angry, then there is your confirmation that you are not enlightened.
To those of us that are not realized beings, this is all we have, so I visit this site once a day hoping that someone will say something that will trigger a reaction in me that will reveal more about myself. So now that I was honest with you, feel free to dish it back.
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Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 15, 2009 9:21:27 GMT -5
I hope you guys can take this criticism, but I don't think you are fully awake yet. Something in me just does not relate to what you guys speak of. Plus you are too involved in this site to be fully realized, I don't think you would spend so much time typing online, adding more maya to this maya. I do think you are both quite advanced and I'm so happy to have some contact with people interested in the same things I am but an enlightened being would never claim enligtenment. If you find yourself getting angry, then there is your confirmation that you are not enlightened. To those of us that are not realized beings, this is all we have, so I visit this site once a day hoping that someone will say something that will trigger a reaction in me that will reveal more about myself. So now that I was honest with you, feel free to dish it back. Oh ya now I am really really pissed! LOL just kidding. Of course I am not enlighten because there is no one here to be enlighten. Yet........ Please always feel free as you just have to say whatever comes up because that is Satsang Namaste Randyji
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Post by lightmystic on Jan 15, 2009 11:11:56 GMT -5
Hi fear. I hope you guys can take this criticism, but I don't think you are fully awake yet. Fair enough. Let's examine that. Where does this idea come from? Something in me just does not relate to what you guys speak of. Ok cool. What is it that you don't relate to? Let's get on the same page here. I think we can do it, and I think that will help both of us. Plus you are too involved in this site to be fully realized, I don't think you would spend so much time typing online, adding more maya to this maya. Isn't all relative existence maya? It's not the maya that's the problem, it's believing on a deep level that the maya can attack you. I love talking about experience and exploring Awareness with people. Something amazing always comes out of it if people are open enough. I always have, long before I recognized Awareness to be myself. Why should that change just because of a change in relationship to wholeness? The personality only changes in as much as it wasn't being allowed to truly be itself before... Where are these other ideas coming from? I do think you are both quite advanced and I'm so happy to have some contact with people interested in the same things I am but an enlightened being would never claim enligtenment.
An Enlightened being would never claim Enlightenment? What? Where did that idea come from? I'll acknowledge that Enlightenment is certainly a misnomer, but then it can be called something else. And then that becomes a misnomer. Who wants to piddle with symantics? If you find yourself getting angry, then there is your confirmation that you are not enlightened. Why would you make me so angry fear?! I hate you! (runs into room and slams door crying....) No harm, no foul. To those of us that are not realized beings, this is all we have, so I visit this site once a day hoping that someone will say something that will trigger a reaction in me that will reveal more about myself. Well, I think that if you stop taking every experience that wasn't what you wanted to be as a sign that you "don't have it", then maybe it would have a chance to appear. You've gotta be more innocent with this. You're obviously not very far away, but you have to take it in the other direction. Perhaps you are looking for one cataclysmic, life shattering brush with death, and then it will all be okay. I've had many of those pre-Awakening and let me tell you, it didn't work for me. It certainly helped a lot, but the actual moment of recognition was more of a simple acceptance that that Awareness I'd been feeling all the time was me. That was it. It was so simple and so automatic and so subtle, that I thought maybe it didn't happen after all. I've noticed that when you accept a new way of functioning into yourself, then it's time to revisit all of the old ways that don't align with the new basic experience. It's cliche, but it's cliche for a reason. It works that way. It's the only way it's going to happen. In fact, I noticed that I was looking for a cataclysmic experience so that I could "get it over with" and not have to deal with my feelings of limitations. The acceptance of Awakening is simple, but then there's the process of refining th experience and recognizing what you're seeing more and more. I think you need to get on board with yourself. This "I don't have it" thing isn't really working for you anymore. So now that I was honest with you, feel free to dish it back. Ok, dishing....done! I look forward to your response. You're too expanded for this fear if you ask me. This is your frustration about "not having it." As far as I'm concerned, it's the frustration, stubbornness about definitions, and refusal to be nice to yourself that are the the only things in the way. Just admitting to yourself how you feel is enough, because then they can be felt and you can finally accept what your experience basically already is, and finally culture a relationship with Awareness. That's what this all about anyway right...? So what do you think?
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Post by lightmystic on Jan 15, 2009 11:35:23 GMT -5
I'm saying that the mind IS Awareness. It's not separate from Awareness. You thoughts are that same Awareness as the infinite... Make sense? Hi LM, I see thoughts as being real as far as the level of mind. If that is what you mean. This everyday world that we have a sense of it is created by the mind so then on its own level I would say it is real. Of course the only real reality is the awareness that is now as I know you know. Not sure if I really got what you were asking. Cheers Randy
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Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 15, 2009 11:52:12 GMT -5
I'm saying that the mind IS Awareness. It's not separate from Awareness. You thoughts are that same Awareness as the infinite... Make sense? ¿¿¿¿¿¿¿ Ok LM thanks . well I do not see that from my awakening. I always see awareness as being seperate from the mind. When I am quiet and still and just being present in Awareness their is no mind. Now the coming back to memory that something happened that there was a I that was being present in Awareness in the coming back then less the mind is there for how else would you know that you were being present in the quiet stillness of Awareness. However in Awareness itself their is no mind at all just pure beingness which cannot be expressed. So therefore I do not see Awareness and the mind being the same. Does that make any sense? Randy
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Post by lightmystic on Jan 15, 2009 12:29:18 GMT -5
Yes, that makes perfect sense, and that's the way I experienced it for a long time, and certainly still experience it that way on some level. That said, I've noticed that each of the things that were somehow "not" Awareness were found to be the very same Awareness that I had previously tried to "remove" in order to have Awareness. My experience is that it's ALL that same Awareness, without exception. After all, how can Awareness be separate from the mind? The mind is that which creates boundaries and limits, by definition, but the very process which creates boundaries is made from the same Awareness that it's supposedly dividing! Perhaps try looking carefully at this. What IS the mind really? Let's poke it, and whoever is right will gain something, and whoever is not will gain more. More infinite, more Awareness... I'm saying that the mind IS Awareness. It's not separate from Awareness. You thoughts are that same Awareness as the infinite... Make sense? ¿¿¿¿¿¿¿ Ok LM thanks . well I do not see that from my awakening. I always see awareness as being seperate from the mind. When I am quiet and still and just being present in Awareness their is no mind. Now the coming back to memory that something happened that there was a I that was being present in Awareness in the coming back then less the mind is there for how else would you know that you were being present in the quiet stillness of Awareness. However in Awareness itself their is no mind at all just pure beingness which cannot be expressed. So therefore I do not see Awareness and the mind being the same. Does that make any sense? Randy
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Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 15, 2009 13:02:14 GMT -5
Yes, that makes perfect sense, and that's the way I experienced it for a long time, and certainly still experience it that way on some level. That said, I've noticed that each of the things that were somehow "not" Awareness were found to be the very same Awareness that I had previously tried to "remove" in order to have Awareness. My experience is that it's ALL that same Awareness, without exception. After all, how can Awareness be separate from the mind? The mind is that which creates boundaries and limits, by definition, but the very process which creates boundaries is made from the same Awareness that it's supposedly dividing! Perhaps try looking carefully at this. What IS the mind really? Let's poke it, and whoever is right will gain something, and whoever is not will gain more. More infinite, more Awareness... e] Ok lets turn it around. Do you think that you can know Awareness or Oneness by the use of the mind? Is it possible to get there by the mind? If the answer is no then how can Awareness be the same as mind? The mind in itself is an instrument that allows a 3D world to be possible is that not correct? But the mind is limited to only dealing with data that is from the past. The mind simply takes dta from the past and works with it , causes divison etc. The mind is like a machine but had no soul. Now I guess you could rightly say since Awareness is all there is then Awareness in in the mind but this is at the level of illusion. At the level of illusion they all things are possible except the truth. The truth only exist in Oneness. So at the end of the day I cannot see how Awareness or Oneness can be the same as mind. The fact is it is the mind that makes us feel we are not one but seperate being . Makes sense? randyji
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Post by lightmystic on Jan 15, 2009 16:23:53 GMT -5
Ok lets turn it around. Do you think that you can know Awareness or Oneness by the use of the mind?
Not directly, it is beyond mind.
Is it possible to get there by the mind?
It is beyond mind.
If the answer is no then how can Awareness be the same as mind?
One cannot get to Awareness purely through the mind because the Awareness contains mind. One must be outside the mind to see that. However, once one has identified with Awareness, then, as Awareness, it can be recognized that one contains all, including, of course, the mind.
The mind in itself is an instrument that allows a 3D world to be possible is that not correct?
Correct.
But the mind is limited to only dealing with data that is from the past. The mind simply takes data from the past and works with it , causes divison etc. The mind is like a machine but had no soul. Now I guess you could rightly say since Awareness is all there is then Awareness is in the mind but this is at the level of illusion. At the level of illusion they all things are possible except the truth. The truth only exist in Oneness.
Right. There is only Oneness, and that is Awareness which nothing, not even mind, is separate from. The illusions are Awareness and are are real not as separate entities, but as aspects of your own Awareness.
So at the end of the day I cannot see how Awareness or Oneness can be the same as mind. The fact is it is the mind that makes us feel we are not one but seperate being .
Oneness is recognizing that nothing, including the dividing mechanism itself (the mind), is separate from Awareness. Nothing is outside it. Period.
You see what I'm saying?
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Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 15, 2009 17:20:51 GMT -5
Ok lets turn it around. Do you think that you can know Awareness or Oneness by the use of the mind?
Not directly, it is beyond mind. Is it possible to get there by the mind? It is beyond mind. If the answer is no then how can Awareness be the same as mind?One cannot get to Awareness purely through the mind because the Awareness contains mind. One must be outside the mind to see that. However, once one has identified with Awareness, then, as Awareness, it can be recognized that one contains all, including, of course, the mind. The mind in itself is an instrument that allows a 3D world to be possible is that not correct?Correct. But the mind is limited to only dealing with data that is from the past. The mind simply takes data from the past and works with it , causes divison etc. The mind is like a machine but had no soul. Now I guess you could rightly say since Awareness is all there is then Awareness is in the mind but this is at the level of illusion. At the level of illusion they all things are possible except the truth. The truth only exist in Oneness.Right. There is only Oneness, and that is Awareness which nothing, not even mind, is separate from. The illusions are Awareness and are are real not as separate entities, but as aspects of your own Awareness. So at the end of the day I cannot see how Awareness or Oneness can be the same as mind. The fact is it is the mind that makes us feel we are not one but seperate being .Oneness is recognizing that nothing, including the dividing mechanism itself (the mind), is separate from Awareness. Nothing is outside it. Period. You see what I'm saying? Yes of course LM you can always distill it down to this. that nothing exists without being in Awareness that is a given. However you need to be very careful here as one of the mean reasons people simply do not wake up when they here this message is because of the mind. I am not sure where you are going with this but I have a hunch.. Let me put it like this on the deepest level you can only be Awareness, Oneness you cannot see it by the mind or be it by the mind or experience it by the mind yes you can do all these things by the mind but the only way to know Awareness or Oneness is to be it and the beingness is not nor ever can be by the mind. The problem comes about the moment you try to describe what being it is because then the mind comes into play. Does that make sense to you¿ Now here is a question for you since you can never experience non duality because to have any experience you need 2 not one then how do you know that you know what non duality is? Randyji
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Post by lightmystic on Jan 15, 2009 18:56:50 GMT -5
Let me put it like this on the deepest level you can only be Awareness, Oneness you cannot see it by the mind or be it by the mind or experience it by the mind yes you can do all these things by the mind but the only way to know Awareness or Oneness is to be it and the beingness is not nor ever can be by the mind.Right, it cannot be an opinion, interpretation, etc. because they all involve the mind. It can only be direct knowingness. It's interesting, however, to notice that once my experience was that there was no separation, there were still old patterns that behaved as if there was, which was interesting. This sort of cognitive dissonance would then work itself out over time as things came up, as the mind relaxed because it was safe for the first time. This relaxation seems to be taking place more and more. And during these feeling out of old programs that didn't seem to make sense any more, I noticed that each idea of separateness was replaced by an understanding of non-separateness, as that was now my experience all the time, but the understanding was catching up. It seems to be that there's a recognition that the mind itself, the divider itself is that same awareness, which then allows the problem of mind to completely dissolve into wonderfulness. Of course this will not serve anyone who is not already experiencing that life not separate, but as someone who can appreciate that, I thought that you mind take delight in examining this... The problem comes about the moment you try to describe what being it is because then the mind comes into play. Does that make sense to you¿Yes. What I'm talking about is something different, as hopefully you see by what I've written above, but I certainly understand the paradox and the difficulty in expressing it... Now here is a question for you since you can never experience non duality because to have any experience you need 2 not one then how do you know that you know what non duality is?
Good question. It definitely involves the paradox. I guess because I can feel the sameness of everything "in relation" to me (relative), so there's the knowledge that there's no separation. It's in the exact same way that I know that my arm is not separate from the rest of my body, if that makes sense. On a slightly different note. I have had experience of pure nonduality, of pure awareness without even the appearance of relativity. That is in meditation, in samadhi, where there is no experience except pure awareness. But in that state there is no Awareness of anything. So that is another way that I know. Thirdly, there is a feeling of a flow of silence that has the same consistency as everything else, a feeling of equal distance to everything else. This is a feeling of sameness, of oneness, of recognition. I'm not sure how else to describe it, but that is a third example of how I know. Fourthly, I just know. It's self evident. I had many ideas and they were seen eventually to have no fundamental existence at all, and separation was one of them. What do you get without separation? Non-separation I suppose. That's what it looks, feels, smells, sounds, and tastes like... What do you think?
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