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Post by lightmystic on Mar 30, 2009 10:05:02 GMT -5
That's the stuff. I definitely relate to the feeling of being utterly sick of this junk I had to go through. It just being so unbelievably extreme and just never ending. Not much one can say to make that better... Although, I will say that the fact that you feel that way is a good sign. You're heading in the right direction... This won't last forever....unless it will.... From the Jed Mckenna info on this site: I'm so sick of this..
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fear
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Post by fear on Mar 30, 2009 11:04:56 GMT -5
That Jed Mckenna test was interesting. I think we're really getting somewhere (although there's nowhere to go) when we accept that there is no comfort or happiness in becoming truth.
LM in response to your reply about fear, yes I do agree that all emotions are the same. I never saw this before but it's true. It's difficult to separate them when you identify with them, but when you step back and let it do it's thing, it becomes much clearer.
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Post by souley on Mar 30, 2009 15:17:27 GMT -5
Well I kinda figured it's the right direction. I'm being forced into submission by I don't know fuck what. At one point you just dont care anymore, and then surrender is the only option. And then something happens.
True honest surrender does not come at will though.. it's gotta crush you it seems.
And somehow, despite being seemingly totally insane, there is a higher and higher level of clarity..
Yeah stuff like that would scare me before. Now I don't know anything about anything, hard to care about words when you are in hell.
fear: I can definitely relate to your experiences, I've done alot of dancing with fear lately.. maybe in the future I can say something wise about it.
somenothing: The way you talk about these things is refreshing.. thanks alot for your replies.
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misc
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Post by misc on Mar 30, 2009 18:38:41 GMT -5
Hi Souley, welcome to the forum. It seems to me that to accept the fact that I am the Infinite I would have to already have awakened to the fact.
Right, you already have to be having a constant experience of infinity in order to accept it as yourself. So what you are telling fear to do, is it a matter of faith?I'm telling fear to accept what his experience already is. I'm certainly not advocating blind faith in any way. Blind faith, which appears to be what you mean by "faith" , has no value whatsoever. It seems that you, perhaps, already know that. And could you give an example of "examine these deep egoic fears"?What is means is finding any painful feeling, and allowing the feeling to be. It means noticing one's thoughts as the pain arises. The thoughts themselves are not limiting or necessarily true. It's allowing them to be without trying to move away from the thoughts or the experience. Doing that allows the pain and suffering to subside. If an emotion comes up that is painful in response, simply notice that. Allow that noticing to take place. If the emotion hurts it's because it's being limited by you in some way. Allow that to be noticed. This initial process of noticing thoughts without having to identify with them, and it starts to culture a method of functioning where there is not the initial assumption that just because there is a thought that means it must be true or must be limiting or hurting you. If Douglas Harding works best for you, then keep doing that. Ultimately what works best for you is something only you would know for sure, but whatever works is what should be done. And works means getting freer and freer over time. Less and less suffering and limitation over time. Where I am right now (I'm pretty new to this), I'm just trying to stay with the feeling of awareness as much as possible in my daily life, while at the same time kind of trying to eliminate my egoic sides using the same awareness. I'm hoping that this process will bring me closer to some kind of realization. And yeah in addition to that I cant resist reading all kinds of books and stuff like this forum Good. Well, the whole thing has to unwind, and it's messy and can be a very long journey. I've found, personally, that there's much more that I thought there ever could be, but it released faster than I ever could have predicted, so it evened out pretty well. If you would permit me to ask, why do you want to wake up? Best Regards, LM Do you have no notice thoughts, Ramana always said if a thought arises either examine who they arise to or revert to the feeling of I AM.
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misc
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Post by misc on Mar 30, 2009 18:48:54 GMT -5
I'm saying that the mind IS Awareness. It's not separate from Awareness. You thoughts are that same Awareness as the infinite... Make sense? ¿¿¿¿¿¿¿ Ok LM thanks . well I do not see that from my awakening. I always see awareness as being seperate from the mind. When I am quiet and still and just being present in Awareness their is no mind. Now the coming back to memory that something happened that there was a I that was being present in Awareness in the coming back then less the mind is there for how else would you know that you were being present in the quiet stillness of Awareness. However in Awareness itself their is no mind at all just pure beingness which cannot be expressed. So therefore I do not see Awareness and the mind being the same. Does that make any sense? Randy The mind looks at itself to destroy it. There is only one mind.
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fear
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Post by fear on Mar 31, 2009 2:54:31 GMT -5
Ramana Maharshi never said that, did you see him give a teaching to anyone, no. People interpreted his actions and created a teaching out of them. Why didn't Ramana write a book himself, if he wanted the world to do this and do that? The answer was that there was no teaching to give. He was the very silent sage of arunachala and hardly spoke. In his presence, actions or words from him, if any would be directed like arrows to shatter you thought framework. But when you try and capture the teaching, it slips away.
Saying that, "there is only mind", is also a concept. The word mind refers to something. When there is nothing, how can you refer to it?
All of it is one unitary movement, we are all awake, we just choose to believe in concepts. So it's basically an awakened being believing an illusion. So it cannot be separate from awareness.
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Post by lightmystic on Mar 31, 2009 10:06:29 GMT -5
That's one method. Certainly not the only one. People assume that the thoughts arise to to a limited conceptual structure. It's quite possible that, upon examining who the thoughts arise to, they say "me, the limited person" and then that mode of inquiry doesn't actually help. It just depends on how a person is willing to receive it. There is no one "right way", as everyone's path is different, because everyone's conceptions of what they are and how they are limited is different. Ultimately, it's the same process, however it's referred to... Do you have to notice thoughts, Ramana always said if a thought arises either examine who they arise to or revert to the feeling of I AM.
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Post by lightmystic on Mar 31, 2009 10:07:36 GMT -5
Depends on how one uses the word "mind". What you're calling "mind" is what I would call an identification with mind. Mind, to me, is simply the differentiating process of Consciousness. When that ends, the there is no more functioning for any of Creation... The mind looks at itself to destroy it. There is only one mind.
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Post by souley on Apr 1, 2009 6:03:05 GMT -5
I find that I know so little now. What is this life.. I have no clue at all. What am I, what is it that I see? Before this change everything just was what it was, there was no questioning or doubting the solid world "we all live in". Now I don't know anything, and I don't know how this happened. I never explicitly let go of any beliefs.. I just find now that suddenly I know that I don't know It is really.. empty. But I'm still looking forward to my coffee break in a couple of hours.
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misc
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Post by misc on Apr 1, 2009 10:04:15 GMT -5
Ramana Maharshi never said that, did you see him give a teaching to anyone, no. People interpreted his actions and created a teaching out of them. Why didn't Ramana write a book himself, if he wanted the world to do this and do that? The answer was that there was no teaching to give. He was the very silent sage of arunachala and hardly spoke. In his presence, actions or words from him, if any would be directed like arrows to shatter you thought framework. But when you try and capture the teaching, it slips away. Saying that, "there is only mind", is also a concept. The word mind refers to something. When there is nothing, how can you refer to it? All of it is one unitary movement, we are all awake, we just choose to believe in concepts. So it's basically an awakened being believing an illusion. So it cannot be separate from awareness. I never said their is only mind, I said only one mind and this is true from my experience.
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misc
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Post by misc on Apr 1, 2009 10:05:42 GMT -5
Ramana Maharshi never said that, did you see him give a teaching to anyone, no. People interpreted his actions and created a teaching out of them. Why didn't Ramana write a book himself, if he wanted the world to do this and do that? The answer was that there was no teaching to give. He was the very silent sage of arunachala and hardly spoke. In his presence, actions or words from him, if any would be directed like arrows to shatter you thought framework. But when you try and capture the teaching, it slips away. Saying that, "there is only mind", is also a concept. The word mind refers to something. When there is nothing, how can you refer to it? All of it is one unitary movement, we are all awake, we just choose to believe in concepts. So it's basically an awakened being believing an illusion. So it cannot be separate from awareness. Actually there are some dialogues with Ramana and I have read them all. If he was silent forever then we never would have heard of him, there are teachings out there.
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Post by lightmystic on Apr 1, 2009 10:27:08 GMT -5
That's the spirit! I find that I know so little now. What is this life.. I have no clue at all. What am I, what is it that I see? Before this change everything just was what it was, there was no questioning or doubting the solid world "we all live in". Now I don't know anything, and I don't know how this happened. I never explicitly let go of any beliefs.. I just find now that suddenly I know that I don't know It is really.. empty. But I'm still looking forward to my coffee break in a couple of hours.
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Post by lightmystic on Apr 1, 2009 10:29:43 GMT -5
Yes, only one mind. If mind is the differentiating process of Consciousness itself, then the idea of more than one mind, or who's mind doesn't actually make sense, because then we are already inside mind, inside divisions. I never said their is only mind, I said only one mind and this is true from my experience.
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Post by souley on Apr 6, 2009 4:22:34 GMT -5
The facts have always been there, the incomprehensible universe, the strange impossible findings of science.. evolution and the complexity of organisms.
But now the realization of these things is hitting me like a truck.. it is totally mindblowing. The whole concept of things existing is so extreme I cant take it in, it feels like I would go insane if I tried. And I can't say it's a positive experience. I can't possibly be more lost. How come no one sees this, how come I didnt? It doesn't feel like the same world at all.
But the pure agony of the last two months has kind of changed in character, it seems like the pain and suffering has kind of dissolved. I am now left with nothing, and these new experiences. And it is so extreme, yet sometimes peaceful?!
My life has been a lie, welcome to the dark nothing with no answers.
It is like the matrix, and the matrix does seem like a very nice place compared to this.
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misc
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Post by misc on Apr 6, 2009 22:48:31 GMT -5
The facts have always been there, the incomprehensible universe, the strange impossible findings of science.. evolution and the complexity of organisms. But now the realization of these things is hitting me like a truck.. it is totally mindblowing. The whole concept of things existing is so extreme I cant take it in, it feels like I would go insane if I tried. And I can't say it's a positive experience. I can't possibly be more lost. How come no one sees this, how come I didnt? It doesn't feel like the same world at all. But the pure agony of the last two months has kind of changed in character, it seems like the pain and suffering has kind of dissolved. I am now left with nothing, and these new experiences. And it is so extreme, yet sometimes peaceful?! My life has been a lie, welcome to the dark nothing with no answers. It is like the matrix, and the matrix does seem like a very nice place compared to this. Dark months of the soul
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