|
Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 15, 2009 19:42:19 GMT -5
Let me put it like this on the deepest level you can only be Awareness, Oneness you cannot see it by the mind or be it by the mind or experience it by the mind yes you can do all these things by the mind but the only way to know Awareness or Oneness is to be it and the beingness is not nor ever can be by the mind.Right, it cannot be an opinion, interpretation, etc. because they all involve the mind. It can only be direct knowingness. It's interesting, however, to notice that once my experience was that there was no separation, there were still old patterns that behaved as if there was, which was interesting. This sort of cognitive dissonance would then work itself out over time as things came up, as the mind relaxed because it was safe for the first time. This relaxation seems to be taking place more and more. And during these feeling out of old programs that didn't seem to make sense any more, I noticed that each idea of separateness was replaced by an understanding of non-separateness, as that was now my experience all the time, but the understanding was catching up. It seems to be that there's a recognition that the mind itself, the divider itself is that same awareness, which then allows the problem of mind to completely dissolve into wonderfulness. Of course this will not serve anyone who is not already experiencing that life not separate, but as someone who can appreciate that, I thought that you mind take delight in examining this... The problem comes about the moment you try to describe what being it is because then the mind comes into play. Does that make sense to you¿Yes. What I'm talking about is something different, as hopefully you see by what I've written above, but I certainly understand the paradox and the difficulty in expressing it... Now here is a question for you since you can never experience non duality because to have any experience you need 2 not one then how do you know that you know what non duality is?
Good question. It definitely involves the paradox. I guess because I can feel the sameness of everything "in relation" to me (relative), so there's the knowledge that there's no separation. It's in the exact same way that I know that my arm is not separate from the rest of my body, if that makes sense. On a slightly different note. I have had experience of pure nonduality, of pure awareness without even the appearance of relativity. That is in meditation, in samadhi, where there is no experience except pure awareness. But in that state there is no Awareness of anything. So that is another way that I know. Thirdly, there is a feeling of a flow of silence that has the same consistency as everything else, a feeling of equal distance to everything else. This is a feeling of sameness, of oneness, of recognition. I'm not sure how else to describe it, but that is a third example of how I know. Fourthly, I just know. It's self evident. I had many ideas and they were seen eventually to have no fundamental existence at all, and separation was one of them. What do you get without separation? Non-separation I suppose. That's what it looks, feels, smells, sounds, and tastes like... What do you think? I think this whole subject goes much further down the rabbit hole than you or I realize.Much much more!! I have my insights of what lies in non duality however I will keep them to myself for now. The internet can be a wonderful thing and also way way to public for some material. Have a nice night Randyji
|
|
|
Post by lightmystic on Jan 16, 2009 1:15:54 GMT -5
I'd like to hear it. I'm not sure that I'm talking about the same thing you think I am. Please PM me and we can talk about this privately... Let me put it like this on the deepest level you can only be Awareness, Oneness you cannot see it by the mind or be it by the mind or experience it by the mind yes you can do all these things by the mind but the only way to know Awareness or Oneness is to be it and the beingness is not nor ever can be by the mind.Right, it cannot be an opinion, interpretation, etc. because they all involve the mind. It can only be direct knowingness. It's interesting, however, to notice that once my experience was that there was no separation, there were still old patterns that behaved as if there was, which was interesting. This sort of cognitive dissonance would then work itself out over time as things came up, as the mind relaxed because it was safe for the first time. This relaxation seems to be taking place more and more. And during these feeling out of old programs that didn't seem to make sense any more, I noticed that each idea of separateness was replaced by an understanding of non-separateness, as that was now my experience all the time, but the understanding was catching up. It seems to be that there's a recognition that the mind itself, the divider itself is that same awareness, which then allows the problem of mind to completely dissolve into wonderfulness. Of course this will not serve anyone who is not already experiencing that life not separate, but as someone who can appreciate that, I thought that you mind take delight in examining this... The problem comes about the moment you try to describe what being it is because then the mind comes into play. Does that make sense to you¿Yes. What I'm talking about is something different, as hopefully you see by what I've written above, but I certainly understand the paradox and the difficulty in expressing it... Now here is a question for you since you can never experience non duality because to have any experience you need 2 not one then how do you know that you know what non duality is?
Good question. It definitely involves the paradox. I guess because I can feel the sameness of everything "in relation" to me (relative), so there's the knowledge that there's no separation. It's in the exact same way that I know that my arm is not separate from the rest of my body, if that makes sense. On a slightly different note. I have had experience of pure nonduality, of pure awareness without even the appearance of relativity. That is in meditation, in samadhi, where there is no experience except pure awareness. But in that state there is no Awareness of anything. So that is another way that I know. Thirdly, there is a feeling of a flow of silence that has the same consistency as everything else, a feeling of equal distance to everything else. This is a feeling of sameness, of oneness, of recognition. I'm not sure how else to describe it, but that is a third example of how I know. Fourthly, I just know. It's self evident. I had many ideas and they were seen eventually to have no fundamental existence at all, and separation was one of them. What do you get without separation? Non-separation I suppose. That's what it looks, feels, smells, sounds, and tastes like... What do you think? I think this whole subject goes much further down the rabbit hole than you or I realize.Much much more!! I have my insights of what lies in non duality however I will keep them to myself for now. The internet can be a wonderful thing and also way way to public for some material. Have a nice night Randyji
|
|
fear
Full Member
Posts: 128
|
Post by fear on Jan 16, 2009 18:02:46 GMT -5
Lightmystic, in response to your questions
I hope you guys can take this criticism, but I don't think you are fully awake yet. Fear
Fair enough. Let's examine that. Where does this idea come from? Lightmystic
The idea that you are not fully awake yet is a difficult one to prove. What does not convince me of your enlightenment is that there seems to be someone there, there is still someone conducting the orchestra. The demand to operate still comes from you. You do not appear to be a leaf blowing in the wind.
Isn't all relative existence maya? It's not the maya that's the problem, it's believing on a deep level that the maya can attack you. Lightmystic
Maya is an illusion. Reality is. So the two never cross paths. The world as we know it is maya. The world as it is, is reality. That's why you still live in maya, because you are aware of the illusion because you still see it. If you were enlightened you would not see maya. When duality disappears, everything goes with it, including you. When this happens the demand to operate comes from outside. There is no one there to interpret anything.
In my opinion, from what you describe you are in the state of the 'OBSERVER', where you are aware of everything and experience bliss. You observe youself and everything in your world without it affecting you. I've read about this many times and I've also read about how difficult it is to accept that it is not reality because it feels so good. You don't want to believe otherwise.
About me: It's amazing how you know that I'm in a way waiting for one cataclysmic life shattering brush with death. Because I've been on the brink and it scared me (hence the name fear) and in a way it's always on the back of my mind because nothing I ever experienced was that scary . I've also experienced bliss for a few moments in meditation but realized that it still wasn't reality and I thought to myself, why have so few had the guts to go all the way with this. The bliss was nice but was not it, death was not nice and really really scared the ego, which would most people choose? And there was my answer.
I do have a frustration about 'not having it' but I step back and become aware of the frustration. I actually enjoy getting my feelings hurt (not at first, obvoiusly) because it's my chance to become aware of it. Ever since I got over my phobia of snakes, I've been doing this. I'm not trying to get it but yet I am trying to get it. There's that paradox again. I know I can't get it but yet I try.
|
|
|
Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 16, 2009 18:22:56 GMT -5
Lightmystic, in response to your questions I hope you guys can take this criticism, but I don't think you are fully awake yet. Fear
Fair enough. Let's examine that. Where does this idea come from? LightmysticThe idea that you are not fully awake yet is a difficult one to prove. What does not convince me of your enlightenment is that there seems to be someone there, there is still someone conducting the orchestra. The demand to operate still comes from you. You do not appear to be a leaf blowing in the wind. Isn't all relative existence maya? It's not the maya that's the problem, it's believing on a deep level that the maya can attack you. LightmysticMaya is an illusion. Reality is. So the two never cross paths. The world as we know it is maya. The world as it is, is reality. That's why you still live in maya, because you are aware of the illusion because you still see it. If you were enlightened you would not see maya. When duality disappears, everything goes with it, including you. When this happens the demand to operate comes from outside. There is no one there to interpret anything. In my opinion, from what you describe you are in the state of the 'OBSERVER', where you are aware of everything and experience bliss. You observe youself and everything in your world without it affecting you. I've read about this many times and I've also read about how difficult it is to accept that it is not reality because it feels so good. You don't want to believe otherwise. ********* Dear Fear, With respect why would you even be concerned if LM is a awaken enlighten being or me either. Do you think that LM or I want or need anykind of approval from you or anyone? There are a few types of people in the world. Those that are awake and enlighten, those that are not, those that think they are but are not, and those who are but think they need something else. . Just a little advice you tend to do quite a bit of projection and assuming I would drop that now because it does you no good. I say this in a nice way really. The hard thing about being truly awake is that once you are it isclose to impossible to describe it in words. Also happy you got rid if the fear of snakes . I like snakes personally. Take good care Randyji
|
|
fear
Full Member
Posts: 128
|
Post by fear on Jan 16, 2009 20:59:30 GMT -5
Thanks for that Randyji, it stirred me up a little.
It made me ask myself, Why do I care about your state? Why do I want to help you realize your falseness? It should not mean a thing to me. It's like watching a child who's about to burn themselves on the stove. Why stop them? Let them get burned. I'm not getting burned. It doesn't hurt me. Let people be themselves. I should not try and impose me beliefs on them. Thanks once again
|
|
|
Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 16, 2009 21:14:00 GMT -5
Thanks for that Randyji, it stirred me up a little. It made me ask myself, Why do I care about your state? Why do I want to help you realize your falseness? It should not mean a thing to me. It's like watching a child who's about to burn themselves on the stove. Why stop them? Let them get burned. I'm not getting burned. It doesn't hurt me. Let people be themselves. I should not try and impose me beliefs on them. Thanks once again Your most welcome the only care that needs to be addressed is the giving up of your story, the story of you which is differnt from me or anyone else. We all have or had our stories and in your story lies all suffering, pain, hopelessness etc etc. When and if that moment comes where you can once and for all give up your story then you will see for the first time in your life what you truly are. You will taste for the first time in your life what true freedom is. So the only state you need to be concerned with is your state. Ramana Maharshi said these very words if you want to end all suffering then See who you are. Who am I look and see where that I comes from. All your conerns, troubles, questions EVERYTHING is taken care of when you for just a moment see who you are. Fear this is not hard at all, however what is hard is that mind of yours working so fast like a addict needing the next fix. Find the time to be quiet and seeking only who you are. Warmly, Randyji
|
|
|
Post by lightmystic on Jan 17, 2009 11:27:13 GMT -5
Hi Fear. This is good stuff... You are poking us because we are representatives of parts of yourself. I understand that. And, as part of yourself, I will respond. ...there seems to be someone there, there is still someone conducting the orchestra. The demand to operate still comes from you. You do not appear to be a leaf blowing in the wind.
When the sages say that no behavior or lack of behavior is indicative of Enlightenment, you don't believe them? It's true that my naturally lively personality got even more lively as it the recognition that no one was there started to sink in. Is there an association of Enlightenment with the "gentle" personalities? Obviously, UG Krishnamurti very much seemed like there was someone still conducting the orchestra, if you're measuring it those terms. And he was the real deal. Just because he never talked about bliss, because it's not a useful teaching tool, doesn't mean it was absent for him. Bliss is the result, in a sense, and has nothing to do with the process or even the goal of the process. It's just a natural side effect. It's not the point of it... Maya is an illusion. Reality is. So the two never cross paths. The world as we know it is maya. The world as it is, is reality. That's why you still live in maya, because you are aware of the illusion because you still see it. If you were enlightened you would not see maya. When duality disappears, everything goes with it, including you. When this happens the demand to operate comes from outside. There is no one there to interpret anything.
The appearance of the world still exists, that's how I can still write this stuff. Just because there is clarity about lack of separation doesn't preclude life and go into the 100% void. It's 100% relative AND 100% void at every point in existence. The relative and void are 100% connected. Even the appearance itself is the void. In my opinion, from what you describe you are in the state of the 'OBSERVER', where you are aware of everything and experience bliss. You observe youself and everything in your world without it affecting you. I've read about this many times and I've also read about how difficult it is to accept that it is not reality because it feels so good. You don't want to believe otherwise.
Bliss is fine, but was never my main interest, and still isn't. I agree with what you're saying about the "I Am That" connection being only the beginning. That was my experience. I actually didn't like that because it seemed more separate in some ways, because it wasn't reality, and I wanted to feel CONNECTED. It wasn't complete. It wasn't done. The "doneness" came unexpectedly after the intial Awakening you're describing had happened and after one other. The second one resolved the connection between the Infinite and duality. The "done" one was the disappearance of the individual. That was my path. I had a lot of ideas too about what being "done" would look like. I knew the internal feeling clearly, and was sure about a lot of external things being the case or needed, etc.. What happened fit the description perfectly on the inside, yet did not look at all like I had expected from the outside. Go figure. After all, who's really running the show here? It's certainly not us... hehe... About me: It's amazing how you know that I'm in a way waiting for one cataclysmic life shattering brush with death. Because I've been on the brink and it scared me (hence the name fear) and in a way it's always on the back of my mind because nothing I ever experienced was that scary . I've also experienced bliss for a few moments in meditation but realized that it still wasn't reality and I thought to myself, why have so few had the guts to go all the way with this. The bliss was nice but was not it, death was not nice and really really scared the ego, which would most people choose? And there was my answer.
I relate to that brink of fear thing back in the day, and my deep frustration at not being able confront head-on in a final battle that would culminate in total Enlightenment. Wouldn't it be great if it really worked that way? Trust me, if it worked in a sort of "final battle" sort of scenario you would have easily done it by now. You're not really afraid of physical death and why should you be? This internal stuff tops it easily... Ultimately, it's not about guts. There is no way to force that kind of thing. I was actually using it as an excuse of sorts saying "I'll go through any amount of pain as long as the pain is gone after that." But ultimately that doesn't work. It's too pain oriented. It's the other side of the same coin of "I don't want pain." It's, ultimately a refusal to be open to pain and give it attention, although you're, paradoxically, doing just that as you move forward in your growth... So what can you do? Well, notice that there is a need in you to keep moving. There is no choice but to go through all this pain, facing every dark spot in yourself. You might think that you're doing this because you're the man and you're going for broke and all that, but the need for Enlightenment is not really up to you. Oddly, it's not even really about you. ) It's more like it's happening TO you. So don't worry. You're desire for it is something deeper than your personal desire. Nothing can stop it... For me my big question at that point was "is this work and pain going to even pay off?" Would it really lead to freedom, to ultimate Enlightenment? In retrospect, it pays off in spades. I do have a frustration about 'not having it' but I step back and become aware of the frustration. I actually enjoy getting my feelings hurt (not at first, obvoiusly) because it's my chance to become aware of it. Ever since I got over my phobia of snakes, I've been doing this. I'm not trying to get it but yet I am trying to get it. There's that paradox again. I know I can't get it but yet I try. Yes, getting poked is invaluably useful, and will always be. I love that so much. Notice that, in terms of Enlightenment, you wouldn't know to want it if it wasn't there already "in you" on some level. Can't you see how that must be true? Think back to your "tastes" of Enlightenment, isn't the feeling still there on some level when you go back and remember them? Isn't that how you're going to know it when you find it? It's not that you shouldn't keep progressing because you theoretically "already have it", it's more like the recognition that you already have it inside somewhere IS the most direct path to progression. People who say you can get Enlightened any minute by just accepting it aren't telling you the whole truth (although it's of course theoretically possible, but that isn't going to help anyone). You're not interested in the idea of something, you're interested in the direct truth. So I would say cast aside all ideas of what Enlightenment and Awakening "should" be and go with your own inner knowing. Admit what is going on. You are clarifying the experience that you already have, so that it can be so clear that you can Awaken. And that is not "done", that is the beginning, but it REALLY IS the beginning. From there, knowing you are the Infinite, there is the safety to start to examine these deep egoic fears that would not otherwise be possible. That is the place from which this deep fear that you can't quite get to can finally be looked at. And it comes from clarifying yourself enough so that you can Accept that the Infiniteness you experience all the time is not only there for real, but it IS who you have always been. Removing anything in the way of that acceptance is the first step. And that is what you are doing.
|
|
|
Post by souley on Jan 18, 2009 14:24:54 GMT -5
Yes, getting poked is invaluably useful, and will always be. I love that so much. Notice that, in terms of Enlightenment, you wouldn't know to want it if it wasn't there already "in you" on some level. Can't you see how that must be true? Think back to your "tastes" of Enlightenment, isn't the feeling still there on some level when you go back and remember them? Isn't that how you're going to know it when you find it? It's not that you shouldn't keep progressing because you theoretically "already have it", it's more like the recognition that you already have it inside somewhere IS the most direct path to progression. People who say you can get Enlightened any minute by just accepting it aren't telling you the whole truth (although it's of course theoretically possible, but that isn't going to help anyone). You're not interested in the idea of something, you're interested in the direct truth. So I would say cast aside all ideas of what Enlightenment and Awakening "should" be and go with your own inner knowing. Admit what is going on. You are clarifying the experience that you already have, so that it can be so clear that you can Awaken. And that is not "done", that is the beginning, but it REALLY IS the beginning. From there, knowing you are the Infinite, there is the safety to start to examine these deep egoic fears that would not otherwise be possible. That is the place from which this deep fear that you can't quite get to can finally be looked at. And it comes from clarifying yourself enough so that you can Accept that the Infiniteness you experience all the time is not only there for real, but it IS who you have always been. Removing anything in the way of that acceptance is the first step. And that is what you are doing. I have been practicing things like Douglas Hardings experiments etc and my life has improved alot with this "current of life" or "feeling of awareness" that I'm beginning to be able to shut on and off at will. Sometimes I have sunken a bit deeper into the state but then my mind starts spinning and I'm back to normal. This experience tells me that what I read about "Reality" seems to be true, I am sure that there is something going on, but it has not given me an insight that "I am Infinite". It seems to me that to accept the fact that I am the Infinite I would have to already have awakened to the fact. So what you are telling fear to do, is it a matter of faith? And could you give an example of "examine these deep egoic fears"? Where I am right now (I'm pretty new to this), I'm just trying to stay with the feeling of awareness as much as possible in my daily life, while at the same time kind of trying to eliminate my egoic sides using the same awareness. I'm hoping that this process will bring me closer to some kind of realization. And yeah in addition to that I cant resist reading all kinds of books and stuff like this forum
|
|
|
Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 18, 2009 14:49:08 GMT -5
Yes, getting poked is invaluably useful, and will always be. I love that so much. Notice that, in terms of Enlightenment, you wouldn't know to want it if it wasn't there already "in you" on some level. Can't you see how that must be true? Think back to your "tastes" of Enlightenment, isn't the feeling still there on some level when you go back and remember them? Isn't that how you're going to know it when you find it? It's not that you shouldn't keep progressing because you theoretically "already have it", it's more like the recognition that you already have it inside somewhere IS the most direct path to progression. People who say you can get Enlightened any minute by just accepting it aren't telling you the whole truth (although it's of course theoretically possible, but that isn't going to help anyone). You're not interested in the idea of something, you're interested in the direct truth. So I would say cast aside all ideas of what Enlightenment and Awakening "should" be and go with your own inner knowing. Admit what is going on. You are clarifying the experience that you already have, so that it can be so clear that you can Awaken. And that is not "done", that is the beginning, but it REALLY IS the beginning. From there, knowing you are the Infinite, there is the safety to start to examine these deep egoic fears that would not otherwise be possible. That is the place from which this deep fear that you can't quite get to can finally be looked at. And it comes from clarifying yourself enough so that you can Accept that the Infiniteness you experience all the time is not only there for real, but it IS who you have always been. Removing anything in the way of that acceptance is the first step. And that is what you are doing. I have been practicing things like Douglas Hardings experiments etc and my life has improved alot with this "current of life" or "feeling of awareness" that I'm beginning to be able to shut on and off at will. Sometimes I have sunken a bit deeper into the state but then my mind starts spinning and I'm back to normal. This experience tells me that what I read about "Reality" seems to be true, I am sure that there is something going on, but it has not given me an insight that "I am Infinite". It seems to me that to accept the fact that I am the Infinite I would have to already have awakened to the fact. So what you are telling fear to do, is it a matter of faith? And could you give an example of "examine these deep egoic fears"? Where I am right now (I'm pretty new to this), I'm just trying to stay with the feeling of awareness as much as possible in my daily life, while at the same time kind of trying to eliminate my egoic sides using the same awareness. I'm hoping that this process will bring me closer to some kind of realization. And yeah in addition to that I cant resist reading all kinds of books and stuff like this forum Hi Souley, This is Randyji not LM I am sure LM will respond to you. From what you have wrote I would say your doing fine. Keep up with the headless way by DH. I gave a link to his site if your not familar with the website take a look you can also for fee enrolled in a class there which can be fun. Ramana Maharshi said that the only thing that keeps you from being enlighten is the belief that the you is not already enlighten. Take out that belief and you have arrived. Also if you have the time watch Adyashanti and Tony Parsons on you tube. In my opinion they are 2 of the best teachers of nonduality. Awakening, enlightenment, Oneness is not as much a matter of faith as that it simply IS. You do not need faith to know that you are sitting in front of a compuer screen reading these words in the same way is Enlightenment, Awareness, Oneness it simply IS. Keep up the good work and let us know of your progress if you want. It is always nice to share. Be well randyji
|
|
|
Post by souley on Jan 18, 2009 15:40:48 GMT -5
Hi Souley, This is Randyji not LM I am sure LM will respond to you. From what you have wrote I would say your doing fine. Keep up with the headless way by DH. I gave a link to his site if your not familar with the website take a look you can also for fee enrolled in a class there which can be fun. Ramana Maharshi said that the only thing that keeps you from being enlighten is the belief that the you is not already enlighten. Take out that belief and you have arrived. Also if you have the time watch Adyashanti and Tony Parsons on you tube. In my opinion they are 2 of the best teachers of nonduality. Awakening, enlightenment, Oneness is not as much a matter of faith as that it simply IS. You do not need faith to know that you are sitting in front of a compuer screen reading these words in the same way is Enlightenment, Awareness, Oneness it simply IS. Keep up the good work and let us know of your progress if you want. It is always nice to share. Be well randyji Thanks for the reply. Just to clarify I dont mean faith in a religous sense, more like choosing to believe something you dont know. I've seen some Tony Parsons, I'll keep on looking:)
|
|
|
Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 18, 2009 15:48:02 GMT -5
Hi Souley, This is Randyji not LM I am sure LM will respond to you. From what you have wrote I would say your doing fine. Keep up with the headless way by DH. I gave a link to his site if your not familar with the website take a look you can also for fee enrolled in a class there which can be fun. Ramana Maharshi said that the only thing that keeps you from being enlighten is the belief that the you is not already enlighten. Take out that belief and you have arrived. Also if you have the time watch Adyashanti and Tony Parsons on you tube. In my opinion they are 2 of the best teachers of nonduality. Awakening, enlightenment, Oneness is not as much a matter of faith as that it simply IS. You do not need faith to know that you are sitting in front of a compuer screen reading these words in the same way is Enlightenment, Awareness, Oneness it simply IS. Keep up the good work and let us know of your progress if you want. It is always nice to share. Be well randyji Thanks for the reply. Just to clarify I dont mean faith in a religous sense, more like choosing to believe something you dont know. I've seen some Tony Parsons, I'll keep on looking:) Understood..if you want to keep looking then I will tell you exactly where to look..look into who is doing the looking this is not a trick ,you find who it is doing the looking and you will find what your looking for..makes sense?
Chou Randyji
|
|
|
Post by lightmystic on Jan 18, 2009 18:43:21 GMT -5
Hi Souley, welcome to the forum. It seems to me that to accept the fact that I am the Infinite I would have to already have awakened to the fact.
Right, you already have to be having a constant experience of infinity in order to accept it as yourself. So what you are telling fear to do, is it a matter of faith?I'm telling fear to accept what his experience already is. I'm certainly not advocating blind faith in any way. Blind faith, which appears to be what you mean by "faith" , has no value whatsoever. It seems that you, perhaps, already know that. And could you give an example of "examine these deep egoic fears"?What is means is finding any painful feeling, and allowing the feeling to be. It means noticing one's thoughts as the pain arises. The thoughts themselves are not limiting or necessarily true. It's allowing them to be without trying to move away from the thoughts or the experience. Doing that allows the pain and suffering to subside. If an emotion comes up that is painful in response, simply notice that. Allow that noticing to take place. If the emotion hurts it's because it's being limited by you in some way. Allow that to be noticed. This initial process of noticing thoughts without having to identify with them, and it starts to culture a method of functioning where there is not the initial assumption that just because there is a thought that means it must be true or must be limiting or hurting you. If Douglas Harding works best for you, then keep doing that. Ultimately what works best for you is something only you would know for sure, but whatever works is what should be done. And works means getting freer and freer over time. Less and less suffering and limitation over time. Where I am right now (I'm pretty new to this), I'm just trying to stay with the feeling of awareness as much as possible in my daily life, while at the same time kind of trying to eliminate my egoic sides using the same awareness. I'm hoping that this process will bring me closer to some kind of realization. And yeah in addition to that I cant resist reading all kinds of books and stuff like this forum Good. Well, the whole thing has to unwind, and it's messy and can be a very long journey. I've found, personally, that there's much more that I thought there ever could be, but it released faster than I ever could have predicted, so it evened out pretty well. If you would permit me to ask, why do you want to wake up? Best Regards, LM
|
|
|
Post by souley on Jan 19, 2009 5:13:07 GMT -5
Yesterday after posting here I read some on www.kiloby.com, I found the link posted by dwbh1953 in this forum. Especially I read www.kiloby.com/kiloby2homecorrect_017.htm "Are You the Doer of Any Action?". Well I've read things like that before but this worked extraordinarily well for me. After I had read it, I tried to give in to the feeling of not being the doer of my mind and body, and suddenly I got a profound feeling that this was actually the case. But the amazing thing was that as soon as I felt that, I immediately was the entire room, I was the force surrounding everything. But then I kind of woke up and the whole thing faded. So many things that I read makes total sense seen from that place. One of the most amazing things to me is that while I tried to know that I wasnt the doer, I automatically suddenly knew that I was something entirely other. It was like divine knowledge, I had not learned this in any way and it just came to me. It was simply great. I hope to have more experiences like this. Any tips as to how to go on? I'm afraid that I'll start obsessing about getting back to that place.. Lightmystic: I am doing that egoic fear transformation thing regularly, both as a practice towards waking up, but also since its a great way to handle things, good to know that I'm on the right track. And as to why I want to wake up, I just feel very strongly drawn towards it. I have been interested in a lot of things in my life, but this is on another level. I just want to know life, I always want to know and understand the fundamental things and this is the most rewarding thing so far. I'm not in a bad place right now, I could live a "normal happy life" if I wanted to, but this is more intresting and feels incredibly right. And at the moment I'm living the normal life at the same time anyway.
|
|
|
Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 19, 2009 7:57:04 GMT -5
Yesterday after posting here I read some on www.kiloby.com, I found the link posted by dwbh1953 in this forum. Especially I read www.kiloby.com/kiloby2homecorrect_017.htm "Are You the Doer of Any Action?". Well I've read things like that before but this worked extraordinarily well for me. After I had read it, I tried to give in to the feeling of not being the doer of my mind and body, and suddenly I got a profound feeling that this was actually the case. But the amazing thing was that as soon as I felt that, I immediately was the entire room, I was the force surrounding everything. But then I kind of woke up and the whole thing faded. So many things that I read makes total sense seen from that place. One of the most amazing things to me is that while I tried to know that I wasnt the doer, I automatically suddenly knew that I was something entirely other. It was like divine knowledge, I had not learned this in any way and it just came to me. It was simply great. I hope to have more experiences like this. Any tips as to how to go on? I'm afraid that I'll start obsessing about getting back to that place.. ************ Wonderful Souley! You had a glimplse of awakening more will come. From my own experience the more you visit your own story, the who you are... the more awaken you will become. Do not worry about obsessing on this one experience as it is a good thing to have a sign post. The truth is you cannot do anything wrong. Anytime anything comes into your life that feels not right such as suffering, guilt or whatever then use this as a pointer go into the present moment and see if you can find the suffering or guilt. You just need to stay present that is all that is required of you. Happy for you Randyji
|
|
|
Post by lightmystic on Jan 19, 2009 10:50:16 GMT -5
Wonderful! Sounds like you're doing just the right thing! It also sounds like you're very ripe for experience, which is exciting. That simple experience was realizing who you really are. While this is initially temporary, you've had that taste and there's no way to go back, which is actually a relief. This will help be the driving force towards more. You've seen what you can have, where you're going, so there's ultimately no stopping you from ending up there. Paradoxically, the best way to go forward from that experience is to recognize that, although it's too subtle now to be satisfying, that exact same experience is still actually is in you. It hasn't gone anywhere. When you remember back to that time, the experience actually comes up again, along with limiting thoughts and feelings like "I don't have this" that can bring sadness and/or frustration. But even though it's coupled with those unpleasant ideas, it's still there. Thus, recognizing that, without assuming that you don't have it is ideal. Culture a relationship with that Infiniteness, that Bigness. Say hello. Your attention to that place will bring up every reason why it's not your experience all the time. It will bring up everything in the way. This is ideal because then these blocks can be moved through the way you have been. Always having your gentle attention on that Bigness, that Awareness, which is ultimately your Awareness, will let it quietly (or sometimes not so quietly) but steadily grow in you. It will become your day to day experience in time, but this can only happen if you let it, if you nurture it, and you gently feed it your attention while allowing any blocks, pains, problems, etc. to be noticed and allowed to resolve themselves.... Is that helpful? Yesterday after posting here I read some on www.kiloby.com, I found the link posted by dwbh1953 in this forum. Especially I read www.kiloby.com/kiloby2homecorrect_017.htm "Are You the Doer of Any Action?". Well I've read things like that before but this worked extraordinarily well for me. After I had read it, I tried to give in to the feeling of not being the doer of my mind and body, and suddenly I got a profound feeling that this was actually the case. But the amazing thing was that as soon as I felt that, I immediately was the entire room, I was the force surrounding everything. But then I kind of woke up and the whole thing faded. So many things that I read makes total sense seen from that place. One of the most amazing things to me is that while I tried to know that I wasnt the doer, I automatically suddenly knew that I was something entirely other. It was like divine knowledge, I had not learned this in any way and it just came to me. It was simply great. I hope to have more experiences like this. Any tips as to how to go on? I'm afraid that I'll start obsessing about getting back to that place.. Lightmystic: I am doing that egoic fear transformation thing regularly, both as a practice towards waking up, but also since its a great way to handle things, good to know that I'm on the right track. And as to why I want to wake up, I just feel very strongly drawn towards it. I have been interested in a lot of things in my life, but this is on another level. I just want to know life, I always want to know and understand the fundamental things and this is the most rewarding thing so far. I'm not in a bad place right now, I could live a "normal happy life" if I wanted to, but this is more intresting and feels incredibly right. And at the moment I'm living the normal life at the same time anyway.
|
|