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Post by souley on Jan 19, 2009 14:26:28 GMT -5
Yes very much so! I'll keep you guys posted
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Post by souley on Feb 1, 2009 13:50:06 GMT -5
I seem to have found something that does not change. Every time i focus on this it is the same. My mind cant grasp it, and every time it tries to it makes it go away. If I keep my mind away and focus on the something, I can dwell in it for a period, and it is a nice sense of peace. Today I managed to experience something like my previous experience, but a little different, less overwhelming and much clearer. I sat in this state for about 30 mins while in i conversation with a friend about other things.
Whoever "I" am, I dont know at this moment. It seems to be my mind, my body, the thing that doesnt change, my thoughts, it is different at different times:) My size differs. Sometimes I dont know, sometimes I'm just normal. It is hard to judge since my mind cant be involved:)
All the concepts I read about while researching spirituality are beginning to annoy me somewhat, because my brain is trying to interpret everything as this or that. It seems to be blocking me from the real experience.
There is also this void, if I try to focus on the thing which does not change, it feels as if I can go deeper and deeper. But that requires great focus and keeping my mind under tight control. Sometimes I wonder if I am supposed to focus with all my strength and just see what happens, but sometimes I think I'm just stopping the blood flow to my brain or something like that..
And the workings of my mind are becoming clearer. That the mind only exists in time like Tolle says, is starting to make sense. I am starting to see that the looker is separated from the mind, and at present I struggle to mind as little as possible and be the looker, which seems to take me to the thing that does not change.
Other small changes can be noticed. For instance if someone asks me "how i am", I react in a rather different way. I have to think about it and cant really tell. I can judge the state of matters concerning me, and somehow sum this to how I am.. but that doesnt make sense. Before I would always know how "I was" at all times.
These experiences certainly feel very real and checks out with what I have read, but at the same time teachers like Tony Parsons claim that there is nothing that can be done. But still I seem to be doing something that works, which confuses me.
I just went berserk here and wrote what came to me.
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Post by souley on Feb 1, 2009 21:34:36 GMT -5
I think I just saw what enlightenment is. I will try to share it and see what you think. This lasted about a fraction of a second, but the insight is still strongly with me. At the moment what I experience is set up like this, in three layers: Life force <-> The me I think of <-> What is happening But in reality the middle layer, the me I think of, or the false me, is completely unnecessary. In that satori or what to call it, it was like this: Life force <-> What is happening The layer of me was seen to be nothing at all, and it felt weird. I really was not there, well yet still I was as I saw it. I can understand that many see this as scary and that it is said to be hard to let go of the false I. It feels as it is only a matter of time until that is my way of living, and I think I am able to welcome it with open arms. I have no use of the false me, even though I can understand people who think they do, I can get a bit sentimental about "him". It was indeed totally liberating, Liberation now seems like a very fitting word. Although I can now be one of those who says that its just a word and totally not it To be free of all that confusion... Thank you ;D
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Post by dwbh1953 on Feb 2, 2009 10:58:43 GMT -5
I think I just saw what enlightenment is. I will try to share it and see what you think. This lasted about a fraction of a second, but the insight is still strongly with me. At the moment what I experience is set up like this, in three layers: Life force <-> The me I think of <-> What is happening But in reality the middle layer, the me I think of, or the false me, is completely unnecessary. In that satori or what to call it, it was like this: Life force <-> What is happening The layer of me was seen to be nothing at all, and it felt weird. I really was not there, well yet still I was as I saw it. I can understand that many see this as scary and that it is said to be hard to let go of the false I. It feels as it is only a matter of time until that is my way of living, and I think I am able to welcome it with open arms. I have no use of the false me, even though I can understand people who think they do, I can get a bit sentimental about "him". It was indeed totally liberating, Liberation now seems like a very fitting word. Although I can now be one of those who says that its just a word and totally not it To be free of all that confusion... Thank you ;D Great! I t certainly sounds like you were enlighten by the experience do not doubt it or label it just keep moving on. Cheers Randji
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Post by lightmystic on Feb 2, 2009 11:12:09 GMT -5
Wow! That's Awesome Souley. I was going to respond to your first post, but there seems to be no reason to... Now this experience could be something that fades with time, or something that is fundamentally seen, depending one what is best right now. IF it fades, don't worry because once you've had the experience, it's always available on some level so clarity is ultimately assured. If not, well then that's very exciting, but there is a lot of getting used to after that, a lot of shifts in functioning. It's all very exciting... Just drop me a question on the board or by PM if there's anything you'd like perspective on or would like assistance is resolving... All the best! I think I just saw what enlightenment is. I will try to share it and see what you think. This lasted about a fraction of a second, but the insight is still strongly with me. At the moment what I experience is set up like this, in three layers: Life force <-> The me I think of <-> What is happening But in reality the middle layer, the me I think of, or the false me, is completely unnecessary. In that satori or what to call it, it was like this: Life force <-> What is happening The layer of me was seen to be nothing at all, and it felt weird. I really was not there, well yet still I was as I saw it. I can understand that many see this as scary and that it is said to be hard to let go of the false I. It feels as it is only a matter of time until that is my way of living, and I think I am able to welcome it with open arms. I have no use of the false me, even though I can understand people who think they do, I can get a bit sentimental about "him". It was indeed totally liberating, Liberation now seems like a very fitting word. Although I can now be one of those who says that its just a word and totally not it To be free of all that confusion... Thank you ;D
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Post by The Uncreated on Feb 2, 2009 12:00:48 GMT -5
All the concepts I read about while researching spirituality are beginning to annoy me somewhat, Sounds like your experience is the real deal, because I see similarities with me in fully everything you describe, including the above sentence. I believe that annoyance signifies ripeness. Keep going!
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Post by souley on Feb 5, 2009 9:22:30 GMT -5
Thanks alot for all the replies!
Well the experience has definitely faded, it was never close to sticking, the jump was pretty big.
But I am beginning to see a pattern in my spiritual progress.
Three times now I have had spontaneous more or less fundamental experiences. These last for a short amount of time, and I get very excited about them. I'm think "yeah, I'm doing the right thing". After these experiences I really want to get back there, but of course I cant. And that is somewhat frustrating. But every time I have noticed a shift in functioning. After the experience it gets easier to focus on my awareness or being. After the first experience the shift was pretty big, the awareness could almost be nauseating at times. And the days following I get minor insights about the state of things.
The combination of these insights and my progress does tend to boost my ego somewhat. Ego in the sense that ego is the mind. My mind interprets the experience, gets happy about the progress and I'm thinking alot about the little insights I have. But even the insights are temporary. They come and stay for a moment, and even though I later intellectually grasp my insight, it's not really there anymore.
In the end I have just ended up trying to dwell in and focus on my awareness again, and now after the last experience, after going through this mind cycle again, I'm beginning to see or think that the only thing that matters, is my contact with my own awareness. Everything else is just a product of maintaining that awareness. All the insights and experiences come through that awareness. It seems that the only valid thing to do is to systematically focus on my awareness, no matter what experiences or insights might arise. What do you think about this conclusion?
Until now I have been focusing on my awareness while reading spiritual books, trying to sleep, working, talking etc. But I have not really meditated on it. I think maybe it is time for this now, to really go for it. I dont know what you think, I read alot of opinions about meditation and the subject is typically infected? I think that giving my awareness even more space could not be bad, I would just get to know it better.
One of my stronger insights is about the "illusionness" of everything. It seems that what I see and percept is just some kind of limited interpretation of something, its not really there, it might aswell be nothing, kind of like that everything just outside my body is just black. Its very paradoxical, and interpreting it is kind of impossible, which also leads me to the explained belief about focusing on awareness instead. Maybe when I'm awakened enough I might be able to interpret things like this a bit steadier.
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Post by lightmystic on Feb 5, 2009 10:51:42 GMT -5
Hey Souley, Good to hear from you. Well the experience has definitely faded, it was never close to sticking, the jump was pretty big.Yes, now comes the process of removing everything in the way so the original experience can be there all the time without being overwhelming. But I am beginning to see a pattern in my spiritual progress.
Three times now I have had spontaneous more or less fundamental experiences. These last for a short amount of time, and I get very excited about them. I'm think "yeah, I'm doing the right thing". After these experiences I really want to get back there, but of course I cant. And that is somewhat frustrating. But every time I have noticed a shift in functioning. After the experience it gets easier to focus on my awareness or being. After the first experience the shift was pretty big, the awareness could almost be nauseating at times. And the days following I get minor insights about the state of things.Yeah, that's how it works... The combination of these insights and my progress does tend to boost my ego somewhat. Ego in the sense that ego is the mind. My mind interprets the experience, gets happy about the progress and I'm thinking alot about the little insights I have. But even the insights are temporary. They come and stay for a moment, and even though I later intellectually grasp my insight, it's not really there anymore.Yeah, that's also how it works at first... In the end I have just ended up trying to dwell in and focus on my awareness again, and now after the last experience, after going through this mind cycle again, I'm beginning to see or think that the only thing that matters, is my contact with my own awareness.That's it. You got it. Nothing else fundamentally matters other than recognizing that and except perhaps recognizing that everything else IS ALSO none other than your own Awareness. Everything else is just a product of maintaining that awareness. All the insights and experiences come through that awareness. It seems that the only valid thing to do is to systematically focus on my awareness, no matter what experiences or insights might arise.Exactly. Until now I have been focusing on my awareness while reading spiritual books, trying to sleep, working, talking etc. But I have not really meditated on it. I think maybe it is time for this now, to really go for it. I dont know what you think, I read alot of opinions about meditation and the subject is typically infected? I think that giving my awareness even more space could not be bad, I would just get to know it better.At this point, your natural, subtlest feelings are the best indicator of what you need. If they feel like you want to meditate, then that is the absolute best thing for you right now. One of my stronger insights is about the "illusionness" of everything. It seems that what I see and percept is just some kind of limited interpretation of something, its not really there, it might aswell be nothing, kind of like that everything just outside my body is just black. Its very paradoxical, and interpreting it is kind of impossible, which also leads me to the explained belief about focusing on awareness instead. Maybe when I'm awakened enough I might be able to interpret things like this a bit steadier.Clarity of what the experience is happens over time. Also talking about it, responding to questions about, trying to describe it, etc. also helps a lot. One other thing that was immeasurably helpful for me at this point (actually, it still is ) is recognizing that the experiences that you "miss" are still in you. They haven't gone anywhere, but now they need to integrate so that you can have them under any circumstances. They are being strengthened so you can be doing anything and it's still there. Thus, recognizing that you're not avoiding life (although mediating is fine) because functioning in life will help you integrate faster. Recognizing that the experience is still there on some quiet level will allow you to put your attention the subtle value of your experience, which is a subtle value of your own Awareness. This attention will water the experience, like a plant, and allow it to blossom... Hope that helps. Keep us updated!
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Post by souley on Feb 16, 2009 4:08:16 GMT -5
Yeah OK I can sum the current state I'm in as "scary". Its like "what the hell, this thing is real, I didnt ask for this, why did I want this, what was I trying to achieve". This weekend was pretty crazy. I had some kind of run in with my mind, kind of like my ego making a last run for it. It was all pretty crazy. Then the following days I had a totally new level of awareness, while earlier I would try to feel it, it was now there whether I wanted it or not. Its like knowing that the world isnt what you always knew it to be might sound nice and all, but when its a reality it gets pretty scary. I dont want to loose my girl and stuff like that. But now I'm pretty chilled.. I feel kind of normal at the moment and I'm getting confident that everything is still here.. and the same as before. It's just a different view.
I'll write something better later, right now I'm at work.
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anonji
Junior Member
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Post by anonji on Feb 16, 2009 22:26:19 GMT -5
Souley,
This new spiritual consciousness will become dominant. You can't get your ego life back; there is no going back. Make peace with your new consciousness and let the old ego life go. Just surrender it for good. You are right; it's just a different view, but one you will get used to over time. It's all good.
L
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Post by souley on Feb 17, 2009 3:23:45 GMT -5
Thanks anonji!
It seems my old sense of awareness has changed to a sense of nothing instead. Although I still recognize it as the same awareness, it has a different character. But everything else is still very ordinary, no grand visions or insights:)
What should I do now? I feel tempted to just live life and let this spiritual thing live by itself. But I'm still drawn towards it somehow..
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anonji
Junior Member
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Post by anonji on Feb 17, 2009 4:17:02 GMT -5
Ordinary is good. If your focus is on your awareness/consciousness, then that will be a guiding force. Let it grow and keep your eye on it. And stay away from elaborate intellectual explanations as it will take you away from the spiritual life.
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Post by lightmystic on Feb 17, 2009 10:57:50 GMT -5
Hey Souley, Yeah, there can definitely be many "falling apart" phases, depending on how fast the process is going. It definitely seems like nothing-ness at first. That is an important part of an important process. There's no need to stop or go on with your life. This IS your life. They can't really be separated. This is the content of it, this is what it has actually always been, and that's very frightening at first. It just needs a lot of time to integrate, to become more and more Aware of what it is and your relationship to it. It IS who and what you have actually always been. And, even further, it's relationship to everything else and what that means about you. You make a very good observation that, a lot of the time, when it really comes down to letting go of serious and deep issues, there comes this feeling of "why did I want this?! This whole thing was a big mistake!" or something like that. But, at that point, when the issue is already coming out, it's too late. And that's a good thing, because once' the issue is gone, it's really gone. As if it was never there. And there is so much more experience waiting. It's a big price to pay, but it's worth every cent. As you recognize, this doesn't have to necessarily be flashy. A lot of it will be, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. It's moments like you're describing that a lot of real intense work can take place, and it's a blessing in that sense. But the idea of grounding this stuff, no matter how amazing or flashy, so that it sinks in, integrates, becomes normal, is exactly on track. Anonji has good advice. It's great to hear the updates. We're rooting for you! Yeah OK I can sum the current state I'm in as "scary". Its like "what the hell, this thing is real, I didnt ask for this, why did I want this, what was I trying to achieve". This weekend was pretty crazy. I had some kind of run in with my mind, kind of like my ego making a last run for it. It was all pretty crazy. Then the following days I had a totally new level of awareness, while earlier I would try to feel it, it was now there whether I wanted it or not. Its like knowing that the world isnt what you always knew it to be might sound nice and all, but when its a reality it gets pretty scary. I dont want to loose my girl and stuff like that. But now I'm pretty chilled.. I feel kind of normal at the moment and I'm getting confident that everything is still here.. and the same as before. It's just a different view. I'll write something better later, right now I'm at work.
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Post by souley on Feb 18, 2009 16:28:20 GMT -5
So just some thoughts now that I'm a bit more stable:)
The new intense awareness has kind of quited down, but I'm able to experience it at times, as a nothing that is 'deeper' then the earlier feeling of being. Now that I'm a bit used to it I find it very satisfying, it's a new level of me.
It's really as you say LM that issues disappear. And what's even cooler is that old subconscious behaviors are surfacing. Sometimes I think like, 'damn what a weird reaction that was', just to realize that this is the way I have always acted, just not recognizing it.
And I'm getting even more tired of the concepts and stories I hear and read about concerning enlightenment. It's like, it's my awareness, I want to find out for myself, and not fill my mind with a lot of junk. I want to read about the process, for the guidance and support, but intellectualizing about the 'higher states' isn't really helping. It's fun to just go deeper into myself and see what happens, expecting nothing in particular.
So right now I'm just being aware while doing all sorts of normal stuff, not really reading or searching a lot. It's really just up to me to find me through going deeper into what I have already seen, trying to do this with a good amount of intensity. It really feels like the best way at the moment. This is contrary to all the 'seekers' that seem to identify with all the ideas etc, I don't want to end up like them.
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anonji
Junior Member
Posts: 62
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Post by anonji on Feb 18, 2009 17:18:49 GMT -5
Yep, you're tuned in to it. Don't change that channel, there's something new going on all the time!
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