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Post by divinity on May 26, 2010 16:12:08 GMT -5
Whatever could irritate or frighten an enlightened being? As long as the being is still in human form, just about anything could, to begin with... but as the monk falling over the cliff, the years of meditation and practice should allow her to enjoy the strawberry growing out from the side of the cliff on her way down...or the lovely splatter pattern of blood on a wall...
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Post by divinity on May 26, 2010 16:16:56 GMT -5
Enigma... you have all of eternity to learn!
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Post by zendancer on May 26, 2010 17:17:05 GMT -5
WDV: I would only add one or two additional comments to what Enigma wrote.
You wrote: "....is it possible to unlearn & rewire 20y (=youth) of subconscious conditionning, defining your EQ & emo-behavioural reactions, in a fairly amount of time (let's say a couple of years of spiritual searching) to a point where one is able to remain unhurt (cause as in an Awareness-state, nothing really makes you suffer, only you-self) in any given set of conditions such as the one described in the initial discussion ? Being unattached to any event, any one, life itself, own false-belief ? Or is one just "strengthened" enough to remain on top of his unconsciousness."
This path is not about strengthening oneself so that one becomes impervious to hurt. It is to see through the illusion of the one who thinks it must be strengthened. Who you are is vast beyond imagining, and when you realize who you are, there will be nothing to protect or defend or strengthen against hurt. Ask yourself this question: "Does pure awareness need protection, defense, or strengthening against anything?" Well, that is who you are. Who you are is what sees "what is," and is "what is." Who you are needs nothing. Who you are is infinite, whole, and present.
The body may experience pain, but physical pain is direct. If there is small pain, then "ouch!" If there is big pain, then, "aiiieeeeeoooow!" Most suffering is psychological and it occurs because we identify with a body/mind rather than who we are (awareness). Become still and abide in presence, and everything will eventually become clear. It is like letting muddy water settle. If you don't keep it stirred up, the mind settles down, and reality shines forth. Just watch, listen, feel, taste, smell.
Shhhhhhhhhhhh..........ah, the computer is humming, clouds seen through the window are dark and roiling, thunder is heard in the distance, a few drops of rain are striking the window.......just this!
In "just this" there is life as a body/mind. There are thoughts and feelings and a huge range of experiences. Just relax and be what you are; let everything flow through you................. and watch! It is a show beyond compare.
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Post by Portto on May 26, 2010 18:04:52 GMT -5
That was quite a post, Enigma!
I have seen what you're talking about, in "me" and "others."
Thanks!
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Post by loverofall on May 26, 2010 18:56:15 GMT -5
The current experience is at anytime there can be a letting go of not wanting or seeking. Its very clear that there is nothing to achieve because as soon as there is desire there is future and there is the illusionary I trying to become.
I can see the letting go actually happen, fear arises sometimes a headache or relief depending on this minds patterns. Its a letting go of any desire or fear. The false I is always focused on a desire or fear. I need to blank...LET IT GO. I wish that person would .... LET IT GO. I hope that ..... LET IT GO. I want a good feeling LET IT GO. I mean sit there and let go of any disturbance. The mind will jump all over wanting to distract or eat or even go on this site and read more. Everything is suspect.
This personality had strong distractions and patterns due to childhood and parents. The patterns are getting weaker as they are let go. The control and fear patterns are much more visible which means they are losing their strength. The weaker they get the easier to clear seeing.
I now clearly understand why going against patterns is a pathway too. The mind wants comfort and when you go against control patterns you undo mind patterns. Meditation is great but so is loving your enemies or doing the tasks you hate. It will do feel bad (but don't label it that, welcome the feelings) and getting comfortable feeling bad or as Lightmystic said "accept the feelings like you could feel that way the rest of your life". There are incredibly strong patterns and it is easier to sit with the resistance and listen and look around to stop the mind story or desire to change the state. All feelings, thoughts and emotions can be opened up too. Conditioning weakens and the sun is seen more often through the clouds which weakens the patterns more and more.
I don't know if I will have final experience or not but there is no other path. Actually there is no desire for that anymore (You have to really let that desire go and desire the day to day feelings, thoughts and emotions that arise).
Just to clearly see and let go is where the path is here. If the self wants to remember through this mind and body then great and if not thats great too.
I or you will never be enlightened. Its a scam. I want money or I want enlightenment is still future and desire and suffering. A thougth wanting another thought. It means salvation is in the nonexistent future. Many times when the illusion is clearly seen there is very uncomfortable feelings as the mind tries to pull back. Those feelings are it too. The mind wants to distract them away and by clear seeing they no longer are bad because I am not creating a story or looking to the future to get rid of them.
Try to go around without using I in your thoughts. I is the reference point that limits our life. Drop the I and the limits drop.
Its always good to write this to myself.
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Post by zendancer on May 26, 2010 19:51:38 GMT -5
Yes, yes, yes!
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Post by WDV on May 27, 2010 16:32:11 GMT -5
Thx for all this clarification, this really helps to make progress... or should I say, not to seek progress anymore at all, and just "be" instead...
I'm kinda gathering & "mixing" insights from the teachings of Anthony De Mello & John Sherman.. A. says "understanding is needed, emotions need to get a breakthrough & beliefs need to be decoupled" while focussing on awareness, while John says you only should only have the intention to look, no understanding needed... Will read U.G. the upcoming weeks...
Really appreciate the time & effort of you all.
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Post by enigma on May 28, 2010 0:52:45 GMT -5
Thx for all this clarification, this really helps to make progress... or should I say, not to seek progress anymore at all, and just "be" instead... I'm kinda gathering & "mixing" insights from the teachings of Anthony De Mello & John Sherman.. A. says "understanding is needed, emotions need to get a breakthrough & beliefs need to be decoupled" while focussing on awareness, while John says you only should only have the intention to look, no understanding needed... Will read U.G. the upcoming weeks... Really appreciate the time & effort of you all. I've had an issue with John's insistence that understanding is not needed, though I 'understand' what he's pointing to. Acquiring new ideas is not needed, but the ideas that are already present must be released through understanding. This comes about through the looking and seeing to which he refers, which then 'informs' mind of what is not so. It's possible to have a non-conceptual realization that is then sort of compartmentalized by mind such that mind's beliefs are not disturbed at all, so I would not go so far as to say understanding is not needed. |
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Post by divinity on May 30, 2010 13:06:45 GMT -5
Zendancer , when you say that " this path" is or is not something or other... which particular path are you referring to?
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Post by zendancer on May 30, 2010 17:16:08 GMT -5
Zendancer , when you say that " this path" is or is not something or other... which particular path are you referring to? Hi Divinity: I'm using the word "path" very loosely to point to the activity of body/minds who seek existential understanding. On this forum the path that everyone is following is expected to lead to nonduality. In truth, there is no path of any kind because there is nowhere to go. There is only an apparent path that is eventually seen to be an illusion. Sooner or later it is realized that the one who seemed to be following a path never existed in the first place. |
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Post by divinity on Jun 2, 2010 12:18:47 GMT -5
Zendancer... you never fail me!
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