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Post by robert on Apr 22, 2010 14:53:39 GMT -5
murder and kill? seems like semantics and a question of perspective, one persons murder is another persons kill. i mean say whatever you want but god or whatever watches a child die of starvation every 3 seconds and then has the gall to be expected to be worshiped.
it's all a question of perspective.
i mean if we are going to continue to keep this thread alive lets make it interesting.
robert
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Post by cabinintheforest on Apr 22, 2010 15:09:56 GMT -5
murder and kill? seems like semantics and a question of perspective, one persons murder is another persons kill. i mean say whatever you want but god or whatever watches a child die of starvation every 3 seconds and then has the gall to be expected to be worshiped. it's all a question of perspective. i mean if we are going to continue to keep this thread alive lets make it interesting. robert Robert in Christian Science as mentioned death, evil and sin is unreal it is illusion. So God does not watch a child die of starvation becuase their is no death or starvation. |
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Post by robert on Apr 22, 2010 20:51:09 GMT -5
exactly! but why come down against drugs or is it just that someone disagrees? i mean if murder and death aren't real then none of the other points of contention in this week long galavant of a post could exist either.
robert
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Post by Guest on Apr 23, 2010 9:29:36 GMT -5
People don't die becuase of God Robert. Im not sure why you are blaiming and hating God. Are you an atheist?
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Post by lightmystic on Apr 23, 2010 10:27:23 GMT -5
That sounds like kind of a weak argument. If there is a "God" and a "me" and a "you" etc., then there is also "starvation", "death" etc.. That sounds more like selective nonduality - i.e. just another thing to believe rather than find the truth for ourselves. murder and kill? seems like semantics and a question of perspective, one persons murder is another persons kill. i mean say whatever you want but god or whatever watches a child die of starvation every 3 seconds and then has the gall to be expected to be worshiped. it's all a question of perspective. i mean if we are going to continue to keep this thread alive lets make it interesting. robert Robert in Christian Science as mentioned death, evil and sin is unreal it is illusion. So God does not watch a child die of starvation becuase their is no death or starvation. |
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Post by cabinintheforest on Apr 23, 2010 11:10:14 GMT -5
Im not sure what you are saying here. But God is real and so are we. Starvation and death are not real. They are false beliefs and in Christian Science they are illusion and unreal.
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Post by lightmystic on Apr 23, 2010 14:52:32 GMT -5
Okay cool. Let's look at this. Let's assume that God is real and that you and I are real for the sake of this discussion. How are starvation and death not just as real? Im not sure what you are saying here. But God is real and so are we. Starvation and death are not real. They are false beliefs and in Christian Science they are illusion and unreal. |
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Post by cabinintheforest on Apr 23, 2010 15:08:18 GMT -5
It takes some time to understand. The book by Mary Baker Eddy explains it.
It's Becuase God is Good. And nothing exists apart from God and his ideas. We as God's ideas are good. If God is good and everything is good how can death or starvation exist? Christian Science shows us they are unreal.
God did not create anything bad. Anything bad such as sin, evil, disease, death, starvation etc Is all false belief and the result of mortal mind (called carnal mind in the bible). It is illusion. Unreal.
As Christian Science states the real us is Divine Mind not mortal mind. The reality is spiritual.
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Post by lightmystic on Apr 23, 2010 16:45:37 GMT -5
Generally I find that spirituality becomes practical when we look at our direct experience. While I can understand the internal logic of your argument, it doesn't really match up with anything experiential as far as I can see.
But how about this: perhaps our assumptions about what we think good and bad is are the issue. Perhaps starvation and death are just as real, but they have their purpose. Anything that is "bad" isn't "not there" so much as it is not understood for it's value.
Example: If someone told you that they like cutting people open with a knife, you might believe that is not good. If you discover later that they are a surgeon, then it's understood that their cutting people opens saves the people's lives, and that is part of why they like it. When the surgery saves someone's life, it is actually a great blessing. So it isn't that it wasn't good, just that it was not understood fully.
That is what I find to be the case with every aspect of Creation. But, in order to really find that for real, then it must be looked it more closely.
If we blindly stick to the idea that cutting people open is not okay, then it makes it very hard for us to see it's true purpose.
So the same principle is being suggested, but at a very deep level in relation to EVERYTHING that we perceive to be uncomfortable in some way.
If there is the experience of "sin", "starvation", "bad" things (and there will always be those aspects present on some level), then pretending that our sense are just lying to us doesn't strike me as very practically useful. Pretending what we don't like isn't there appears to drive us further into suffering. At least, if I am honest with myself, that is my experience.
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Post by Notme on Apr 23, 2010 20:07:15 GMT -5
Hi LM. So what I find difficult to work out, is how do we merge together the story that is happening with what seems to be happening to us individually. If we see that’s it’s only a story, than things seem so impersonal. What motivation should we have to comply with the story, or to change it. There appears for me a natural impulse to change the storyline of ‘bad things’ that are happening.
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Post by enigma on Apr 24, 2010 1:28:39 GMT -5
murder and kill? seems like semantics and a question of perspective, one persons murder is another persons kill. i mean say whatever you want but god or whatever watches a child die of starvation every 3 seconds and then has the gall to be expected to be worshiped. it's all a question of perspective. i mean if we are going to continue to keep this thread alive lets make it interesting. robert Robert in Christian Science as mentioned death, evil and sin is unreal it is illusion. So God does not watch a child die of starvation becuase their is no death or starvation. I would suggest that death and starvation are (as it says on my Microsoft flight simulator) 'as real as it gets'. However, just as when i crash by Boeing 747 into the ground at mach 1, nobody actually dies. (It's a little embarrassing, though) To put it another way, suffering happens, but 'God' is the One with his hand on the joystick, and also the One who is sitting in the passenger seat cursing God. It's a very wacky game we're playing. (Waiting impatiently for rev. 1.1) |
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Post by Notme on Apr 24, 2010 7:01:36 GMT -5
Hi Egnima, Would you say that the passenger has any power over the direction of that jet, like a co-pilot???
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Post by enigma on Apr 25, 2010 0:27:56 GMT -5
Hi Egnima, Would you say that the passenger has any power over the direction of that jet, like a co-pilot??? Not in my version of flight simulator. The passengers are just pixels on the screen, looking something like this just before ground zero:  All seriousness aside, God forbid humans actually make their way to the 'thingypit'. Really, they're no different than the characters appearing on the screen of the in-flight movie. There's zero potential that one of them will jump off the screen and start flying the plane. Another way to look at it: How would you feel if the characters in your nightly dream suddenly became volitional and started telling you what to dream next? PS No, no, I didn't mean that kind of thingy pit. I meant the control room of an airplane thingy where the pilots sit. (So here I am arguing with a digital cyber censor. But then again, dream characters will do such silly things  ) |
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Post by cabinintheforest on Apr 25, 2010 5:51:47 GMT -5
Are you saying people and God are not real?
Lightmystic people and God are real. Starvation and death are not.
Im going out now but i will do a post when i get back and explain why.
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Post by enigma on Apr 25, 2010 11:40:38 GMT -5
Cabin:"We as God's ideas...
Are you saying people and God are not real?"
Ideas have no fundamental reality, even 'God's ideas'. They are just ideas. However, you know that you exist. This can't be denied, so what you are cannot be an idea. If you are not the idea, your fundamental existence must lie in that which formulated the idea. As you say, nothing exists apart from God. Another way to say this is, nothing can exist that is not God.
If you can form an idea of a person, and then come to believe you ARE that person, then from within that belief, you can also form the idea of a God who created the person that you imagine yourself to be, as an idea.
So God creates the idea of a person, which can't be anything other than what God is (because "nothing exists apart from God") and from within this idea, goes on to create the idea of a God that is separate from the person God believes himself to be.
God's idea of himself, as conceived through his self delusion of personhood, is necessarily distorted, as are all thoughts originating from within (not from) this delusion. God's idea that he is separate from God brings fear, and fear brings bad stuff.
Sensing his own fundamental goodness, he wonders why God would create bad stuff and begins to write stories about how the bad stuff isn't really real, which He will do when he gets back to the forum. Hehe.
The bad stuff is not more or less real than the good stuff, or the personal identity through which good stuff and bad stuff is seen. The concepts of good and bad have eggzakly as much ultimate validity as the concept of the person through which the concepts of good and bad were formed. Which is to say, it's all God imagining himself to be separate from himself, and terrifying himself with his own thoughts.
"Be still and know that you are God."
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