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Post by Gopal on Jul 25, 2024 12:28:18 GMT -5
I partially agree(because I still wouldn't support meditation), I would tell you a story which happened to me recently, I claimed the mountain recently and I had to stay at the top without cell phones, TV, but no focusing, no meditation, but getting bored watching monkeys and trees, high mountains for 5 days, but suddenly at 5th day, suddenly something tremendously begin to creep in inside my mind, but I don't know what that was. The following day, I descended the mountain and resumed my regular life activities. It became evident that when the mind is at rest, something else seems to take over, although I’m uncertain what that might be. Have you ever experienced something similar? Yes, but that "something else" doesn't take over only when the mind is at rest. It's always present but goes unnoticed. Yes, makes sense. |
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Post by Gopal on Jul 25, 2024 12:30:08 GMT -5
I partially agree(because I still wouldn't support meditation), I would tell you a story which happened to me recently, I claimed the mountain recently and I had to stay at the top without cell phones, TV, but no focusing, no meditation, but getting bored watching monkeys and trees, high mountains for 5 days, but suddenly at 5th day, suddenly something tremendously begin to creep in inside my mind, but I don't know what that was. The following day, I descended the mountain and resumed my regular life activities. It became evident that when the mind is at rest, something else seems to take over, although I’m uncertain what that might be. Have you ever experienced something similar? Sounds like you were slipping into a spiritual experience. Yeah, It looked like that! I think, we can think we can walk and we can do anything in nature without allowing ourselves to long for anything. Just taking rest in nature slowly paves the way for the All That Is to reveal itself. |
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Post by laughter on Jul 25, 2024 13:36:30 GMT -5
Yes, but that "something else" doesn't take over only when the mind is at rest. It's always present but goes unnoticed. Yes, makes sense. (** likes the same post twice **) |
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Post by zazeniac on Jul 25, 2024 15:23:40 GMT -5
Chasing Gopal might prove elusive, but definitely useful. The essence of practice. Who is chasing? But here I thought it was all about the inevitability of the roller coaster.
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Post by Gopal on Jul 27, 2024 3:22:18 GMT -5
Chasing Gopal might prove elusive, but definitely useful. The essence of practice. Who is chasing? But here I thought it was all about the inevitability of the roller coaster. Rollercoaster depth is defined by the illusion we have. When one believes in control, it goes to more depth. Likewise, all other illusion defines the depth of the rollercoaster, when we remove illusion after illusion, the depth of the rollercoaster gets normalized. |
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Post by zazeniac on Jul 27, 2024 6:26:22 GMT -5
Chasing Gopal might prove elusive, but definitely useful. The essence of practice. Who is chasing? But here I thought it was all about the inevitability of the roller coaster. Rollercoaster depth is defined by the illusion we have. When one believes in control, it goes to more depth. Likewise, all other illusion defines the depth of the rollercoaster, when we remove illusion after illusion, the depth of the rollercoaster gets normalized. In the Zendo there was a constant refrain:"no expectations, no illusions." Similar to what you say about chasing. My wife always talks about closure and resolution. She has these media inspired expectations about life events that never match reality. It never matches the actual. I forewarn her to no avail. We realize that the words aren't enough. The minds propensity for grasping requires retraining it. Why we sit for no reason, just to sit. No expectation about it. It's not easy to let go of this tendency. We are thoroughly conditioned by it. Once you become aware of it. You begin to notice it everywhere. It hard to let go of this pattern. The mind is the consumate bullshit artist. 🙂 |
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Post by andrew on Jul 27, 2024 9:49:58 GMT -5
Sounds like you were slipping into a spiritual experience. Yeah, It looked like that! I think, we can think we can walk and we can do anything in nature without allowing ourselves to long for anything. Just taking rest in nature slowly paves the way for the All That Is to reveal itself. I like the way you expressed this a lot. Instinctively, I am moved to be in nature every day at some point. Whether it's the ocean, or the mountains, or the trees, or the desert. It doesn't matter much. The movement arises, and I follow it. I am most drawn to areas that feel 'untouched' by human hands, but sometimes that's not available, and so even just a park can be fine. And also, I am not drawn to being in large cities. I spent a few days in Los Angeles last year, but still had daily access to the ocean, and in winter, the beaches were very quiet. |
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Post by Gopal on Jul 27, 2024 9:51:34 GMT -5
Rollercoaster depth is defined by the illusion we have. When one believes in control, it goes to more depth. Likewise, all other illusion defines the depth of the rollercoaster, when we remove illusion after illusion, the depth of the rollercoaster gets normalized. Similar to what you say about chasing. My wife always talks about closure and resolution. She has these media inspired expectations about life events that never match reality. It never matches the actual. I forewarn her to no avail. We realize that the words aren't enough. The minds propensity for grasping requires retraining it. Why we sit for no reason, just to sit. No expectation about it. It's not easy to let go of this tendency. We are thoroughly conditioned by it. Once you become aware of it. You begin to notice it everywhere. It hard to let go of this pattern. The mind is the consumate bullshit artist. 🙂 yes, that's very nice line and that's called acceptance. But if one consciously has to do it, then there is illusion. |
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Post by Gopal on Jul 27, 2024 9:58:01 GMT -5
Yeah, It looked like that! I think, we can think we can walk, and we can do anything in nature without allowing ourselves to long for anything. Just taking rest in nature slowly paves the way for the All That Is to reveal itself. I like the way you expressed this a lot. Instinctively, I am moved to be in nature every day at some point. Whether it's the ocean, or the mountains, or the trees, or the desert. It doesn't matter much. The movement arises, and I follow it. I am most drawn to areas that feel 'untouched' by human hands, but sometimes that's not available, and so even just a park can be fine. And also, I am not drawn to being in large cities. I spent a few days in Los Angeles last year, but still had daily access to the ocean, and in winter, the beaches were very quiet. No, spending just an hour each day won’t work. I meant completely isolating myself from normal life and going to the mountains. That’s when it tends to happen. This way, the mind is freed (not looking at cell phones, TV) by doing nothing but eating, wandering, sitting, and watching monkeys |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 27, 2024 10:04:55 GMT -5
Yeah, It looked like that! I think, we can think we can walk and we can do anything in nature without allowing ourselves to long for anything. Just taking rest in nature slowly paves the way for the All That Is to reveal itself. I like the way you expressed this a lot. Instinctively, I am moved to be in nature every day at some point. Whether it's the ocean, or the mountains, or the trees, or the desert. It doesn't matter much. The movement arises, and I follow it. I am most drawn to areas that feel 'untouched' by human hands, but sometimes that's not available, and so even just a park can be fine. And also, I am not drawn to being in large cities. I spent a few days in Los Angeles last year, but still had daily access to the ocean, and in winter, the beaches were very quiet. I consider this because cities are ~more artificial~. Cities are more made out-of ideas. Buildings are concrete ideas. Libraries are concrete ideas that house ideas. This is culture, ideas based on ideas based on ideas... Getting back to nature is touching something real, not-artificial. |
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Post by andrew on Jul 27, 2024 10:07:44 GMT -5
I like the way you expressed this a lot. Instinctively, I am moved to be in nature every day at some point. Whether it's the ocean, or the mountains, or the trees, or the desert. It doesn't matter much. The movement arises, and I follow it. I am most drawn to areas that feel 'untouched' by human hands, but sometimes that's not available, and so even just a park can be fine. And also, I am not drawn to being in large cities. I spent a few days in Los Angeles last year, but still had daily access to the ocean, and in winter, the beaches were very quiet. No, spending just an hour each day won’t work. I meant completely isolating myself from normal life and going to the mountains. That’s when it tends to happen. This way, the mind is freed (not looking at cell phones, TV) by doing nothing but eating, wandering, sitting, and watching monkeys Yeah I get it. But still, I find it interesting that I am moved to be in nature each day, without fail. I guess there is something there for me, in that experience, even though it is rarely profound (I have experienced profundity in nature some years ago). |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 27, 2024 10:08:37 GMT -5
I like the way you expressed this a lot. Instinctively, I am moved to be in nature every day at some point. Whether it's the ocean, or the mountains, or the trees, or the desert. It doesn't matter much. The movement arises, and I follow it. I am most drawn to areas that feel 'untouched' by human hands, but sometimes that's not available, and so even just a park can be fine. And also, I am not drawn to being in large cities. I spent a few days in Los Angeles last year, but still had daily access to the ocean, and in winter, the beaches were very quiet. No, spending just an hour each day won’t work. I meant completely isolating myself from normal life and going to the mountains. That’s when it tends to happen. This way, the mind is freed (not looking at cell phones, TV) by doing nothing but eating, wandering, sitting, and watching monkeys But you don't have-to go anywhere. Being in nature is a help, it's a kind of deliberate starvation of cultural attachments. This can be done anywhere, in nature is with crutches. |
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Post by andrew on Jul 27, 2024 10:13:24 GMT -5
I like the way you expressed this a lot. Instinctively, I am moved to be in nature every day at some point. Whether it's the ocean, or the mountains, or the trees, or the desert. It doesn't matter much. The movement arises, and I follow it. I am most drawn to areas that feel 'untouched' by human hands, but sometimes that's not available, and so even just a park can be fine. And also, I am not drawn to being in large cities. I spent a few days in Los Angeles last year, but still had daily access to the ocean, and in winter, the beaches were very quiet. I consider this because cities are ~more artificial~. Cities are more made out-of ideas. Buildings are concrete ideas. Libraries are concrete ideas that house ideas. This is culture, ideas based on ideas based on ideas... Getting back to nature is touching something real, not-artificial. Yep, well described. I tangibly experience this difference in terms of energy. In cities, energy is focused more intensely around (and within) my head a lot more. It feels 'buzzy'. There is less clarity available to me. Less intuitive sense. As much as I enjoyed my experience in LA, and the dogs we looked after there were a joy, a few days was enough. I don't miss cities at all. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 27, 2024 10:21:15 GMT -5
Rollercoaster depth is defined by the illusion we have. When one believes in control, it goes to more depth. Likewise, all other illusion defines the depth of the rollercoaster, when we remove illusion after illusion, the depth of the rollercoaster gets normalized. In the Zendo there was a constant refrain:"no expectations, no illusions." Similar to what you say about chasing. My wife always talks about closure and resolution. She has these media inspired expectations about life events that never match reality. It never matches the actual. I forewarn her to no avail. We realize that the words aren't enough. The minds propensity for grasping requires retraining it. Why we sit for no reason, just to sit. No expectation about it. It's not easy to let go of this tendency. We are thoroughly conditioned by it. Once you become aware of it. You begin to notice it everywhere. It hard to let go of this pattern. The mind is the consumate bullshit artist. 🙂 I came here to post this, start a new thread. I think some instructions got lost somewhere along the line, in zazen. What is the minimum necessary to acknowledge existence? Descartes got close, the cogito. ZD says the self is illusory, yes, the so-called SVP is illusory. Niz was told by his teacher to acknowledge I Am, in the sense of being. Gurdjieff said, life is real only then, when I am. So, basically, what I'm asking is, what does ZD acknowledge, as the minimum to be able to say the Whole is? This is what got lost in the zazen instructions. (And no, I will neither affirm a correct answer nor deny an incorrect answer. A correct answer is self-validating). |
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Post by andrew on Jul 27, 2024 10:24:50 GMT -5
No, spending just an hour each day won’t work. I meant completely isolating myself from normal life and going to the mountains. That’s when it tends to happen. This way, the mind is freed (not looking at cell phones, TV) by doing nothing but eating, wandering, sitting, and watching monkeys But you don't have-to go anywhere. Being in nature is a help, it's a kind of deliberate starvation of cultural attachments. This can be done anywhere, in nature is with crutches. Though we have to remember that Gopal won't 'do', so it has to happen 'to' him without any active participation on his part. So it's easy to see why an extended period of nature could be impactful for him. Though I do recall fairly recently that you were talking about meditation, G....? Are you still meditating sometimes or did that stop? |
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