Purification

[ouroboros]

Recently I've been talking a bit about purification. It's one of those phrases that I feel I intuitively know how and when to use in the right context, i.e in relation to whatever point I'm trying to make. Yet what it actually means or signifies, what it ultimately points to, is kinda vague and ill-formed in the back of my mind and therefore not so easy to define. I suppose it's also tricky to encapsulate because as a subject what it means can be quite broad.

The dictionary definition talks about "the removal of contaminants from something", so let's start with that. In spiritual terms the way I would approach that is to say that fundamentally the process of purification is about overcoming ignorance, or seeing clearly. That in doing so the subsequent expression would be purified, quite naturally.

In Buddhism they talk about defilements, which are essentially negative character traits which stand in the way of true liberation. These stem from three deep rooted 'expressions' which are attachment, aversion, and ignorance in their various forms, which include such things as greed, malevolence, anger, rancor, hypocrisy, arrogance, envy, miserliness, dishonesty, boastfulness, obstinacy, violence, pride, conceit, intoxication, and complacency. To name but a few.

The three roots are of particular import because they are seen as the very roots of samsaric existence and in purging those everything subsequent, i.e the various forms in which they express, dissolves. In fact, if we look closely we can actually say of the three, ignorance itself is actually foundational to the other two. Attachment and aversion being kinda dichotomous in nature. Remove ignorance (or delusion) as a platform from the equation and the other two can no longer arise. This also means that the key to the dissolution of defilements is clarity. That in bringing the situation into the light of awareness, all defilements tend to dissolve quite naturally.

As a process purification ties in with practice. Specifically mindfulness and becoming/being conscious and it's about bringing the subtle sub-routines which comprise individuated experientiality to the fore. The way we act and the reasons behind that. As we do this behaviour tends to adjust quite naturally, as various measures of 'headbanging' begins to dissolve. And of course meditation can be particularly useful in this regard, which involves a two pronged approach of the simultaneous development of insight (or inquiry) and equanimity. Ideally this sort of practice also 'creates a space' and leads to greater degree of being present which is also part of the process of purification. It can be envisaged as ripening. Specifically toward the advent of what we sometimes talk about in terms of core realisations. SR and CC are two notable versions and are particularly efficient at dissolving defilements. Although imo, not necessarily the be all and end all because the root defilements in particular are, well pretty deep rooted, and the way they express pretty extensive. Incidentally, practice need not be formal and really it's happening all the time to varying degrees. That is to say, broadly speaking life itself is a process of purification as we learn and adjust through the results of our behaviour.

What's being talked about here is essentially the purification of kamma. Kamma is perpetuated by 'engagement', and simply put the better quality the kamma being perpetuated [as a result of clarity] the better quality the subsequent experientiality. Albeit the effects are not necessarily immediately apparent because of the real scope and nature of what's being pointed to. You see, [mundane] experientiality can be said to be an extension of kamma. Where kamma is the seed, mundane experientiality is the bloom. Hence, kamma is synonymous with rebirth and it doesn't matter whether we envisage that as moment to moment or lifetime to lifetime rebirth (it's both) the principle about quality still holds. We can also approach all this in terms of LOA and alignment btw, they are different ways of talking about the same thing. The greater the purity, the more aligned, and the process extends beyond corporeality.

[ouroboros]

It's worth highlighting a distinction here between potential outcomes or routes along the path of purification and it depends on the nature of the kamma being engaged with. Engagement is the key really, because it reinforces patterns, like samkaras and vasanas for example, which covers a wide range of expression. Some inclinations are considered favourable and others (like the defilements) obviously not so much. Now the majority of kamma engaged with leads to the perpetuation of kamma, whether it be good or bad, and therefore continued rebirth, etc etc. To renewed or continued becoming. It just means we perpetuate mundane existence through continued action, quite literally. However subtly that may be, like engaging with small c-consciousness for example. Which I'm doing right now. It reinforces predisposition, invigorates the habitual, which 'grows' into experientiality.

However, true liberation (from samsara) come only from one type of kamma, and that is: 'kamma leading to the end of kamma'. SI might be considered an example of that. Because in effect it begins to dissolve the three core roots. Crucially though, the perpetuation of good kamma as opposed to bad kamma can be considered as prerequisite to that in terms of ripening. Creating favourable conditions to that end. But the fact is that true liberation (paranibbana) should be considered as most likely the distant culmination of the path of purification. Accordingly, the Buddhist position is that the vast majority of folks are best served by focusing on working toward positive rebirth. Which as well as just being less stressful experientiality, is necessarily fertile ground for true liberation. It's a loosening of the bonds and I'll come onto that. This might seem defeatist but really that's just an acknowledgment of the reality of the situation. Of where folks commonly are at in terms of the biggest picture. This path of purification is generally considered a process which takes place over innumerable lifetimes of different forms, and so realistically is somewhat glacial in nature. Although in pockets (core realisations etc) great strides can be made, because they are notably transformative. Btw, most if not all folks actually reading this will already be pretty ripe anyway, hehe. Just being here (in a setting such as this) is quite auspicious in the grand scheme of things.

[ouroboros]

Just to say a bit more about kamma. It's incorrect to think of kamma as something someone has or does. In some respects it would be closer to say that kamma is something someone is, because it's both foundational to [mundane] experientiality and colours it. But that's not right either, because in saying it's something someone is, that implies some sort of immutable 'someone', which is not the case. The point is that it's more immediate than all that, and so really needs to be envisaged in terms of suchness. Therefore, the best way I can find to talk about kamma is to say that individuated (corporal) expression is intrinsically kammic in nature. That kamma literally underpins the arising of that particular quality of expression. As such, in the same way as the three roots, upon it's cessation that which arises upon it is dissolved, naturally. Although, even in the case of the cessation of the production of kamma (nibbana), kamma would still be in play, albeit 'the form' now takes the path of merely kamma effect, which has momentum. Birth and death are like a kammic continuum and whilst birth would have had to have been propelled by kamma- in action, the subsequent death only happens when that momentum is exhausted. Like a struck chord playing out, although obviously the expression in question is unfathomably symphonic in nature. Anyway, it's hard to envisage and hopefully one day I might be able to illustrate all this a bit more competently. I appreciate this is a bit of a technical exposition.

[ouroboros]

Next I'm going to talk a bit more about what I call 'bigger picture' purification. In the first post I set the stage by outlining the process by which the purification of kamma takes place leading to positive rebirth. So basically better quality experientiality. But the thing is all that is still samsaric in nature, which means it is essentially empty, transient and broadly speaking intrinsically subject to dukkha. Because that is the nature of the world at large from which ultimately we are never isolated, how could we be. It's a part n' parcel of that greater [mundane] expression if you like. So frankly, you can be living like a king, and on the surface be seemingly entirely content and have a strong peace of mind, but it will not last and it is imperfect. Therefore, in the final analysis the only true and lasting freedom is freedom from samsara itself, aka the end of rebirth. And doubtlessly, folks (and even different schools within the same traditions) will have different interpretations of what that entails.

The Theravada position is that true liberation comes by way of the total cessation of the production of kamma leading to the end of rebirth itself. And they're not just talking about stressful thoughts based on misconceptions about reality, which means everything's perfect in the moment absent thoughts arising to the contrary, yada yada. They're saying that corporeal and material existence itself is intrinsically flawed and that real and lasting Peace comes only through the cessation of the arising of that particular form of individuated experientiality. Now whether you agree with it or not, make no mistake that is the Theravada interpretation of what the Buddha taught, and it just happens to be one I align with and is in keeping with various insight I have gleaned. So full disclosure, my entire ontology is based around that premise. That probably won't be news.

To give an example of where I'm coming from with that, if intoxication with the world of sensuality, 'the world on fire', (which can be as simple as merely an ongoing penchant for the stimulation which comes through sensory perception) is in play. Then it's in play regardless of whether there's currently any intellection to that effect currently arising! And incidentally, it almost certainly will be in play, however subtly, which leads to engagement > perpetuation of kamma, and so on and so forth. Whether it's happening consciously or not makes not one jot of difference. Although consciously would be a more auspicious situation in the long-run as it would be indicative of a greater degree of clarity. True liberation necessitates a certain disenchantment with the world on fire which comes quite naturally through real clarity over time. We are not there yet.

[ouroboros]

Anyway, the doctrine actually begins like one of those 'You are here' maps you get at the mall, and deconstructs the situation from there. On the face of it 'where you are' is an individuated corporeal expression, subject to a localised mindscape, albeit concentrically and seamlessly part of a greater material expression, i.e the world at large. And then as you deconstruct, boundaries begin to blur and dissolve until ultimately the very notions of 'where', 'you', and 'are' become practically meaningless. Or at least that’s how it might seem to the discerning mind. But the thing is, this particular process of deconstruction is somewhat more comprehensive than mere mind-play. It goes beyond the confines of the mind in terms of insight and realisation etc, and it's recognised that in terms of apparency, i.e as expression or patterning, that those various things are still in play regardless. That certain patterns of behaviour in keeping with them are being reinforced by action, however subtly and that they need to be addressed, and can be in a third mountain sense.

It simply needs to be acknowledged that well beyond minds ability to get a handle on the situation these patterns are playing out, and until such time as that which underpins them is taken off the board through clarity. And the resulting transformation isn't just of the mind as is often portrayed. I mean how could it be given the implications of the hard problem of consciousness....  No amount of sophistry will get around that but whether you see it as an issue or not is of course another matter. The Buddhists do see it as an issue. Basically they see a certain kind of experientiality/expression as inescapably problematic and their position is that corporeal expression in its entirety is itself an extended form of headbanging. Which is what it means to say that samsara is intrinsically subject to dukkha. Furthermore it quite literally only arises when the three root defilements detailed in the first post are still in play. The Buddhist position is that in the face of real clarity, and by that I mean full enlightenment, those roots are destroyed and the aforementioned, ultimately problematic quality of expression, will cease to arise … in favour of something which for all intents and purpose is unimaginable from this state of being.

Now, that proposition will almost certainly seem quite unattractive an unappealing to the discerning mind. Perhaps scary as one invariably [mis]envisages some sort of disembodied 'self' floating around in nothingness for all eternity, and possibly all a bit boring in any event. I contend that, that sort of reaction to what's been laid out so far should in itself be quite telling. I mean it should be telling about what's still going on under the hood in terms of attachment/aversion at least. Which I maintain can be seen as being underpinned by ongoing ignorance/delusion, if we look closely enough.

[ouroboros]

Following on from that I want to pose a question. How has one walked off the battlefield when there is still a process of attachment/aversion playing out under the hood? What about fear. Do some folks really take the position that if fear arises, then it is just THIS THISing, and as long as one surrenders to the fear then everything is hunky dory? Seriously, what nonsense. Fear is based on ignorance > attachment/aversion. No ignorance, no fear arising. This should be clear enough.

I'm not talking about sauntering into the lion's den with a big goofy grin on your face. What being talked about here as defilements is the dissolving through clarity of negative/non virtuous character traits, with the three roots being the subtlest and most pervasive. What they tend to give way to are more noble virtues and values. In fact, the Buddhist position is that true liberation cannot actually take place without the opposites of the three root defilements being in place. They are, wisdom (non-delusion), non-attachment, and loving-kindness (both for oneself and others). This covers something like self-preservation for instance, which is an interesting one, because the enlightened middle way [between hedonism & asceticism] allows for self-preservation as a means of simply avoiding unnecessary suffering. In fact it insists on it. Which of course is both wisdom and self-kindness. Yet in the event of unavoidable catastrophe there would be genuine surrender and without much fuss (in the absence of the three root defilements). What's perhaps more interesting is that due to the nature of LOA and alignment, the fact is that in the true absence of the three roots, catastrophe is unlikely to arise anyway. Believe it or not, in the face of the highest buddhahood the lion would actually lay with the lamb which is a measure of real purity. This isn't to say that the highest buddhahood is necessary for true liberation, it isn't, rather it's to highlight the depth to which the process of purification runs.

[zazeniac]

This is Zen, at least the Soto variant, with one exception: all you mentioned is left unsaid. The reason for this is the mind's tendency to set expectations. To me what's most compelling about Zen is what is unsaid. Though the phrase no "delusion, no expectation" was often repeated.

The "purification" you speak of happens quite naturally as we peruse thought. One begins to see the mind's schemes and tendencies. We are not instructed to do this, but it's a by-product of refocusing on the breath.

As to reincarnation and karma, they are never mentioned. The whole focus is on the process. The act of meditation. One technique used to indicate that there were ways to amplify the scope of the meditative state (samadhi) was kin hin, walking meditation. Also chanting, where the focus was not so much the words as the sound.

There were no grades or levels with the exception of priesthood. Kind of like the old Karate schools were everyone was a white belt which darkened as one practiced.

In reading your expose' I am very much reminded of RM's self inquiry process. And I often say that Zen seems to dovetail into SI. Thanks. I appreciate this.

[ouroboros]

Building on these cumulative posts I want to talk about the depth to which the three root defilements, kamma and by extension the subject of purification really runs. So some deeper dhamma here.

To begin with it's worth considering the framework of mundane reality which I shall refer to as 'the matrix'. Andrew and I have previously talked about how in many respects mundane really can be viewed as being quite miraculous in itself. I mean under the circumstances, considering non-separation is the case and wotnot. Just think about it. We sometimes talk in terms of an 'agreement in Consciousness' to describe the matrix, and the implication is that universal or material laws are not actually immutable, it's just that for all intents and purpose they may as well be. And there's some value in that understanding because we're effectively talking about the fundamentals for mundane experientiality to take place, about normalcy, the ground beneath our feet, perhaps even sanity. We're also effectively acknowledging that these things might be more fluid than they perhaps seem at first glance. 

Now this matrix is the very basis of the appearance of individuated expression, it's what gives rise to perceived hard borders, solid walls and floors, gravity, time, private mindscapes etc. And accordingly, no doubt there is perceived or apparent value in all that. But what might not be generally recognised is that there's actually quite a strong attachment to this level of normalcy. I say that because it is my contention that any major deviation from the default matrix will most often result in a certain disquiet of mind. Especially if it happens to be absent the level of purification required to be getting into that sort of thing. I'm actually speaking from direct experience there and I'm saying that f you were to sail close enough to that line, if you were to stand on the precipice of 'total unbinding' then any unresolved purification will quickly become apparent and it can make for quite a rambunctious ride. And to be clear I'm understating the situation. Some folks might relate to this in terms of staring into the void. That even when the relatively surface level patterns that comprise the CT perspective are challenged it can result in a 'dark night of the soul ..' type experience. Welp, try it when the boundaries of reality itself begin to dissolve. Point being that pushing through the confines of the matrix is a sure fire way to bring to the fore any shortcomings in terms of purification.

What I'm essentially talking about here is energy work, which is deeper level purification. It ties in with deeper meditative states, like the formless jhanas, as well as stuff like tantra, yoga, kundalini and chakras etc and these types of practices are considered as potentially kammically dangerous. That is to say ideally they require a certain level of 'grounding', (which perhaps somewhat  conversely necessitates a measure of unlearning and requisite adjustment). And so aren't really for the novice practitioner but rather the adept. Same as NS which is actually a near death state and the uninitiated could accidentally slip this mortal coil which would be considered a waste of a golden opportunity to wrok toward or achieve enlightenment. The fact is that the gordian knot that is the individuated mind-body expression ... is rather knotty, and the movement of energy, the processing of boulders if you like, is a delicate process. Understand that ego, however subtle, is antithetical to all this and you don't wanna go in half-cocked, because that is what makes it potentially kammically dangerous. If it rears its ugly head assertively at the wrong moment. And the point of all this is really to acknowledge the depth to which the three roots run, because make no mistake, they are the source of any blockages or resistance in that regard. And I'm purdy confident there can't be true liberation whilst all that’s still in play. Again, I'm not saying one has to pursue the development of woo techniques in order to achieve true liberation. It's not so. I'm just highlighting the nature or rather the strength of the potential obstacles. Accordingly when folks disparage woo, I always think, yeah come back to me when you've tried it ... because I know what it entails in terms of purification, and why. This is why I say it gets a bad rap.

[ouroboros]

Lastly I quickly want to talk about love versus Love. The simple fact is that absent the three roots there is no platform upon which love could arise. Only Love. This would inevitably change the nature of your relationship with your kin. Ultimately for the better because in genuine clarity, love can be seen to be a form of headbanging (I know it's a stretch). So that's unlikely to be the current perspective. It certainly wasn't when I stood on the precipice and realised that from my family's pov they would lose me if I went any further. From my pov too it became abundantly clear it was an unattractive proposition, for various reasons. That I wasn't ready. Yet it was also unmistakably apparent from that vantage point that those reasons were a measure of where I was/am in terms of purification. What's still in play beneath the hood I mean. 

Incidentally, this particular scenario is addressed (perhaps allegorically) in the tale of the Shakyamuni's life, where, in dedicating himself to the pursuit of truth about the nature of reality at any cost he left his family to go out into the world, and to the tune of much discontent from their part it has to be said. By the end of his path there was no variation in the value placed between their being and any other, and in due course he returned to teach them the dhamma. Now I'm not suggesting we should all get up and abandon our loved ones. The householder lifestyle is considered as virtuous in the traditions and will lead to the production of good kamma and by extension favourable rebirth. Which as I've said is both auspicious and necessary for true liberation in due course. I'm just saying to know the situation for what it is. Be aware. There is no true liberation whilst kamma is still being perpetuated, and in those circumstances it still is. Engagement with that level of patterning is happening which means that type of kamma is actually being reinforced. True liberation comes only through kamma leading to the end of kamma - skilful engagement, which comes as the natural result of genuine clarity.

I'm finished talking for now, so if you got this far, then thanks for listening.

[ouroboros]

Aug 1, 2023 10:18:59 GMT -5 zazeniac said:

This is Zen, at least the Soto variant, with one exception: all you mentioned is left unsaid. The reason for this is the mind's tendency to set expectations. To me what's most compelling about Zen is what is unsaid. Though the phrase no "delusion, no expectation" was often repeated.

The "purification" you speak of happens quite naturally as we peruse thought. One begins to see the mind's schemes and tendencies. We are not instructed to do this, but it's a by-product of refocusing on the breath.

As to reincarnation and karma, they are never mentioned. The whole focus is on the process. The act of meditation. One technique used to indicate that there were ways to amplify the scope of the meditative state (samadhi) was kin hin, walking meditation. Also chanting, where the focus was not so much the words as the sound.

There were no grades or levels with the exception of priesthood. Kind of like the old Karate schools were everyone was a white belt which darkened as one practiced.

In reading your expose' I am very much reminded of RM's self inquiry process. And I often say that Zen seems to dovetail into SI. Thanks. I appreciate this.

Well, I just thought I'd break it up a little by shouting it from the rooftops. Just in case anyone had missed any of the points. And also coz it's actually quite cathartic for me to lay it out. But I'm happier to drift back to a quieter way of being now. And you're most welcome.

[Deleted]

So to add something else to the mix these are the 8 Limbs of Yoga from the Yoga sutras of Patanjali which can be seen as steps of purification.

1. YAMA – Restraints, moral disciplines or moral vows
2. NIYAMA – Positive duties or observances
3. ASANA – Posture
4. PRANAYAMA – Breathing Techniques
5. PRATYAHARA – Sense withdrawal
6. DHARANA – Focused Concentration
7. DHYANA – Meditative Absorption
8. SAMADHI – Bliss or Enlightenment

[Deleted]

There are five Yamas:

Ahimsa (non-violence),
Satya (truthfulness),
Asteya (non-stealing),
Brahmacharya (right use of energy), and
Aparigraha (non-greed or non-hoarding).

There are five Niyamas:

saucha (cleanliness),
santosha (contentment),
tapas (discipline or burning desire or conversely, burning of desire),
svadhyaya (self-study or self-reflection, and study of spiritual texts), and
isvarapranidaha (surrender to a higher power).

[stardustpilgrim]

Read in full, thanks ouroboros. The path is quite tricky. It's walking a tightrope, the razor's edge.

[Reefs]

Alignment means returning to your natural state of being, and that can only happen by letting go. And that is either NOW or never.

Purification, OTOH, means running after some ideal (aka imaginary, unnatural) state of being and that can only happen thru effort, practice. And that is never NOW, but always tomorrow (which never comes).

Once you realize that there is only NOW and that what you are actually after is your natural state (which just is, i.e. you can neither lose it nor earn it), you'll also realize that suffering as well as karma are actually optional. And I'd say the Shakyamuni story illustrates that rather clearly, that karma and suffering are optional.

The moment you fully step into the NOW, you leave the realm of karma. The moment you step out of the NOW, you enter the realm of karma. It's that simple. That's what the Buddhist story about the tigers and the strawberries is all about.

People make too much of this karma stuff. In Zen they call this a donkey-tying pole.

Don't be a donkey! 

[stardustpilgrim]

Aug 1, 2023 13:17:53 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Alignment means returning to your natural state of being, and that can only happen by letting go. And that is either NOW or never.

Purification, OTOH, means running after some ideal (aka imaginary, unnatural) state of being and that can only happen thru effort, practice. And that is never NOW, but always tomorrow (which never comes).

Once you realize that there is only NOW and that what you are actually after is your natural state (which just is, i.e. you can neither lose it nor earn it), you'll also realize that suffering as well as karma are actually optional. And I'd say the Shakyamuni story illustrates that rather clearly, that karma and suffering are optional.

The moment you fully step into the NOW, you leave the realm of karma. The moment you step out of the NOW, you enter the realm of karma. It's that simple. That's what the Buddhist story about the tigers and the strawberries is all about.

People make too much of this karma stuff. In Zen they call this a donkey-tying pole.

Don't be a donkey! 

A few of us here don't consider it quite so easy. I'd guess this represents at minimum five hours of time on the part of ouroboros, and years of study and effort, practice. Did you read in full? I read because of interest. I can see the blood, sweat and tears, quite literally. I could say a lot more, but not here, not now anyway. I'll have some more material, defense, elsewhere, parallel, soon, fly-removal. One of the primary "enemies"-obstacles is self-delusion. Recognizing the donkey is not so easy. The law of karma is just like the law of gravity, unavoidable. Consequences are always tied to actions. If you want to throw out cause and effect, you have moved away from Buddhism.