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Post by someNOTHING! on Oct 14, 2023 12:01:43 GMT -5
The sense of intuition you seem to like to use for understanding a more-objective reality is likely related to your apparent desire for a more all-encompassing map for understanding how/why things happen. I wager that you are a great and dependable electrician, and deeply respectful of and fascinated by the cause-effect relationships of electricity and/or energy. The pragmatics are aligned with such specific contexts, and not so interested in collapsing the boundaries of existential contexts. In the former contexts on electricity, any disrespect for the boundaries of physics brings on calamities, even life-threatening. Mayhaps you relate such danger with where your mind was at the edge of sanity back pre-1975. That's why I suggested the exploration of an emotional block, which could also be related to some childhood trauma, dunno. I've always been more curious about what you consider to be the cause-effect of how/why your mind was pulled away from that potential, fateful decision. There's someNothing there worth some present gratitude that might offer some intuitive appreciation for a conscious psychological death and conscious rebirth of something of an individuated eternity. There isn't a more encompassing map than the Gurdjieff teaching, and I know it from the inside out. I even had had some experiences that upon reading In Search of the Miraculous the first time I understood immediately. Second paragraph, there aren't any significant existential questions that cannot ultimately be answered. But yes, dealing with electricity is dangerous, can be very dangerous, yes, life-threatening dangerous. Yes, I had a childhood ~trauma~ which is never very far from my mind, I've considered it probably had a significant effect. My Grandpa T was my whole life. I could pull up at least 15 memories of being with him, on his egg route where a Chinese cook gave me an almond cookie, on his sweet potato slip route, begging for a small garden shovel, he bought it for me, going to a cow auction, going to the feed store in charlotte, FCX, chasing chickens so they could be vaccinated, hiding my clothes under his bed so my parents couldn't take me home (he and Grandma lived up the hill from us about 100 yards), drinking coffee with him, he would make it weak for me, and he would pour his into a saucer to cool, his buying a Mickey Mouse blue jean coat, Mickey Mouse was the lining, he bought me a double barrel pop gun when I had my tonsils removed, he took care of my face when my cousin knocked over a bare lamp at his house, burning my face, pulling potato slips, his putting a candle in a biscuit for my birthday, and minute later almost burnt our house down, I lit the fabric under our couch with the candle, I remember telling him and my Mother, don't go in there (  ), sitting in the steering wheel of his truck. All those just the top of my head, I can see every one in my mind. I can also see Uncle Jerry walking up the sidewalk at our neighbors, Mother and I were on the steps at the house. Jerry was crying, he said, Bet, Daddy's dead. And I remember, they took me to that same neighbor for Grandpa's funeral, which was at home. I remember looking out the window, seeing tons of cars, and wondering why I wasn't there. I was four when he died, 4 years 5 months old, he was 64, picking apples, he sat down on a stump and had a heart attack (I don't remember that part, was told). Odd thing, I always knew where he died, never discussed it, never recalled anybody ever saying, that's where your Grandpa died. I also knew there was a sandbox in the yard, and a set of swings. Then maybe about eight years ago Mama told me I had been with Grandpa that morning, there with him picking apples, same yard. Mama said my cousin Karen begged to be with Grandpa, so they took her and brought me back. Incidentally, Mother also told me that Grandpa had been a pastor of a church for about a year, otherwise he was just a farmer. My (former) wife had played at a funeral at Cold Springs Baptist Church in Concord, I happened to go with her, which I did from time to time, and telling her, Mama said, Oh, that's where your Grandpa was pastor for a while (during the depression). That kind of blew my mind. So I've considered all that from time to time. I think it's quite possible that sort of insulated me from life somehow, made me an Outsider, a loner. And I've probably not written about this before. When it got desperate, in 1976, after a year of desperate off and on, I said to myself, I don't care if I live or die. And something clicked, I repeated it, and then I just said (to myself), I might as well live. There was a kind of breakthrough, the intensity eased off, some relief, there was some kind of shift. The desperate had been mostly about no meaning in my life. The search, six years previous, was a search for meaning. I had already ordered a book called basic Self-Knowledge by Harry Benjamin, about Maurice Nicoll's Commentaries and comparing Gurdjieff to J Krishnamurti (Benjamin said Nicoll told you how to do what Krishnamurti merely talked about, close, but not completely accurate, I came to find out), and ordered the book Meetings With Remarkable Men, but neither had come yet. Then at the end of March I met my teacher who introduced me to the teaching, through a public lecture at the Main Public library in Charlotte. For some months afterward, I began realizing I had encountered Gurdjieff at least half a dozen times previously, had even browsed Beelzebub's Tales, I remembered having read his Grandmother's advise to him just before she died. He was about ten, she told him, in life, never do as others do. But nothing had said, you need to explore this further. But, that gave me my meaning, direction, teacher and teaching. One stipulation to work was what's called being a good householder, basically, paying your own way in life, being able to, so by the end of March I found the job doing tree work, a climber's helper. I did that for almost 4 years, worked my way to being a crew foreman. Decided it was too hard a work to keep doing. All that's to let you know you kind of nailed it... Thanks for sharing some depth to your childhood. It has a beautiful sense of nostalgia with tinges of the spice of life that does align with the character you present here on the board. With respect to 'encountering Gurdjeiff', I remember intuitively 'recognizing' certain things that certain books/poems/sayings/conversations mentioned. Is that what you also kind of mean, as in 'you already knew, but had forgotten'. I'm not sure what Gurddy considers as a penultimate 'goal', nor whether that goal is to keep one focused on/confined in a 'perfected' system or to push one over the cliff into a CERTAIN system failure. With that ultimate failure of the mind 'to understand', something gives and the vastness/silence opens up. You've mentioned events that expressed such opening up, sooo.... Considering what you have shared, in what way do you think I nailed it? |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 18, 2023 13:22:37 GMT -5
No, that seems pretty odd to say. There's rules and laws for everything. If there's a question you look it up in the code book. Basically, you either know what to do or you don't. ....You can't imagine how many ways things can get messed up, a helper twisting the wrong wires together. And you don't find those problems until you check a house out, months, or sometimes a year later. I would tell my helpers, don't get creative on me, if you don't know exactly what to do, ask. Another one of our electricians would say: Don't try to use the Force.  Right, so in a way, it often appears that you base certain judgments or perceptions of what is said/implied here on how you use your mind's interpretations of Gurdjieff's schema, which is just a little boat that is being rowed. I'm not saying there's no value in that, but rowing is a matter of getting somewhere and/or (potentially) trying to gain something that one senses is lacking. Gurdjieff's schema encompasses, everything. (His 3 series of books is called: All and Everything). Do I have a view, an opinion of what everyone writes here? Yes. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 18, 2023 14:01:08 GMT -5
There isn't a more encompassing map than the Gurdjieff teaching, and I know it from the inside out. I even had had some experiences that upon reading In Search of the Miraculous the first time I understood immediately. Second paragraph, there aren't any significant existential questions that cannot ultimately be answered. But yes, dealing with electricity is dangerous, can be very dangerous, yes, life-threatening dangerous. Yes, I had a childhood ~trauma~ which is never very far from my mind, I've considered it probably had a significant effect. My Grandpa T was my whole life. I could pull up at least 15 memories of being with him, on his egg route where a Chinese cook gave me an almond cookie, on his sweet potato slip route, begging for a small garden shovel, he bought it for me, going to a cow auction, going to the feed store in charlotte, FCX, chasing chickens so they could be vaccinated, hiding my clothes under his bed so my parents couldn't take me home (he and Grandma lived up the hill from us about 100 yards), drinking coffee with him, he would make it weak for me, and he would pour his into a saucer to cool, his buying a Mickey Mouse blue jean coat, Mickey Mouse was the lining, he bought me a double barrel pop gun when I had my tonsils removed, he took care of my face when my cousin knocked over a bare lamp at his house, burning my face, pulling potato slips, his putting a candle in a biscuit for my birthday, and minute later almost burnt our house down, I lit the fabric under our couch with the candle, I remember telling him and my Mother, don't go in there ( ), sitting in the steering wheel of his truck. All those just the top of my head, I can see every one in my mind. I can also see Uncle Jerry walking up the sidewalk at our neighbors, Mother and I were on the steps at the house. Jerry was crying, he said, Bet, Daddy's dead. And I remember, they took me to that same neighbor for Grandpa's funeral, which was at home. I remember looking out the window, seeing tons of cars, and wondering why I wasn't there. I was four when he died, 4 years 5 months old, he was 64, picking apples, he sat down on a stump and had a heart attack (I don't remember that part, was told). Odd thing, I always knew where he died, never discussed it, never recalled anybody ever saying, that's where your Grandpa died. I also knew there was a sandbox in the yard, and a set of swings. Then maybe about eight years ago Mama told me I had been with Grandpa that morning, there with him picking apples, same yard. Mama said my cousin Karen begged to be with Grandpa, so they took her and brought me back. Incidentally, Mother also told me that Grandpa had been a pastor of a church for about a year, otherwise he was just a farmer. My (former) wife had played at a funeral at Cold Springs Baptist Church in Concord, I happened to go with her, which I did from time to time, and telling her, Mama said, Oh, that's where your Grandpa was pastor for a while (during the depression). That kind of blew my mind. So I've considered all that from time to time. I think it's quite possible that sort of insulated me from life somehow, made me an Outsider, a loner. And I've probably not written about this before. When it got desperate, in 1976, after a year of desperate off and on, I said to myself, I don't care if I live or die. And something clicked, I repeated it, and then I just said (to myself), I might as well live. There was a kind of breakthrough, the intensity eased off, some relief, there was some kind of shift. The desperate had been mostly about no meaning in my life. The search, six years previous, was a search for meaning. I had already ordered a book called basic Self-Knowledge by Harry Benjamin, about Maurice Nicoll's Commentaries and comparing Gurdjieff to J Krishnamurti (Benjamin said Nicoll told you how to do what Krishnamurti merely talked about, close, but not completely accurate, I came to find out), and ordered the book Meetings With Remarkable Men, but neither had come yet. Then at the end of March I met my teacher who introduced me to the teaching, through a public lecture at the Main Public library in Charlotte. For some months afterward, I began realizing I had encountered Gurdjieff at least half a dozen times previously, had even browsed Beelzebub's Tales, I remembered having read his Grandmother's advise to him just before she died. He was about ten, she told him, in life, never do as others do. But nothing had said, you need to explore this further. But, that gave me my meaning, direction, teacher and teaching. One stipulation to work was what's called being a good householder, basically, paying your own way in life, being able to, so by the end of March I found the job doing tree work, a climber's helper. I did that for almost 4 years, worked my way to being a crew foreman. Decided it was too hard a work to keep doing. All that's to let you know you kind of nailed it... Thanks for sharing some depth to your childhood. It has a beautiful sense of nostalgia with tinges of the spice of life that does align with the character you present here on the board. With respect to 'encountering Gurdjeiff', I remember intuitively 'recognizing' certain things that certain books/poems/sayings/conversations mentioned. Is that what you also kind of mean, as in 'you already knew, but had forgotten'. I'm not sure what Gurddy considers as a penultimate 'goal', nor whether that goal is to keep one focused on/confined in a 'perfected' system or to push one over the cliff into a CERTAIN system failure. With that ultimate failure of the mind 'to understand', something gives and the vastness/silence opens up. You've mentioned events that expressed such opening up, sooo.... Considering what you have shared, in what way do you think I nailed it? Your nailing it, was the childhood trauma. I pretty-much buy-into inavalan's view of what engineer's life circumstances, a pre-plan. I think I was probably supposed to have been there when Grandpa died, to have gotten the full impact. I can see actually being there ten times worse. Somehow the plan got diverted when my cousin begged to be with Grandpa, and we got swapped out. (As the crow flies, we were about two miles from home. [There is a nature-walk trail through the woods now, Steven's Creek trails. Almost exactly his point of death to where Mother and I were, within 50 yards on both ends]. Driving around via the road, we were about 4 miles away). Gurdjieff's plan is basically to be in the world but not of the world. That has to be the case to even begin with the Gurdjieff teaching, you have to be through with life and all the other ways. IOW, you have to not-believe that life, in and of itself, means anything, and it is going nowhere. From there you start. If you're not-there, you can even begin to understand the Gurdjieff teaching. So one is responsible in life, you take care of all your ordinary obligations, but ordinary life has no *hooks* in you. Gurdjieff can't be understood within the "nondual paradigm" (in a manner of speaking, don't try to correct me, the language). The goal is difficult to be put into words. All the ND people will consider it irrelevant at best, superfluous, so I have not written a lot about it. We all know about this physical world, just look around. But there is another world which is actually more-real than this world. We are given a physical body which operates in-this-world. We are not given, in the same way, a body which can interact with the another world. We are only given a seed which-can-grow-into a body which can ~live~ in the another world. That's what the practices are about, saving and transforming energy. A second body thus formed can-live-in the another world. Now, to go just a little further, Gurdjieff called his teaching esoteric Christianity (it wasn't his, it got passed down). So Jesus is accepted as a Fourth Way teacher. Many things in the NT can be understood from this perspective. Jesus wasn't the unique Son of God, he just came to show us how it's done. That got lost along the way. |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Nov 28, 2023 8:15:13 GMT -5
Right, so in a way, it often appears that you base certain judgments or perceptions of what is said/implied here on how you use your mind's interpretations of Gurdjieff's schema, which is just a little boat that is being rowed. I'm not saying there's no value in that, but rowing is a matter of getting somewhere and/or (potentially) trying to gain something that one senses is lacking. Gurdjieff's schema encompasses, everything. (His 3 series of books is called: All and Everything). Do I have a view, an opinion of what everyone writes here? Yes. It sounds more like you like/respect how the G's schema explains 'everything' (i.., as a map). Nothing wrong with that, and perhaps it can be of use and value. Not having read G in any detail, I cannot say much else. Maybe it helps finding and appreciating the edges and boundaries of where the map cannot go or, ultimately take one's attention.... Source (the non-encompassable). Dunno. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 28, 2023 21:36:06 GMT -5
Gurdjieff's schema encompasses, everything. (His 3 series of books is called: All and Everything). Do I have a view, an opinion of what everyone writes here? Yes. It sounds more like you like/respect how the G's schema explains 'everything' (i.., as a map). Nothing wrong with that, and perhaps it can be of use and value. Not having read G in any detail, I cannot say much else. Maybe it helps finding and appreciating the edges and boundaries of where the map cannot go or, ultimately take one's attention.... Source (the non-encompassable). Dunno. Maybe map is not the best term. Better to say treasure map. The map is superfluous unless it gets you to the treasure. |
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Post by someNOTHING! on Nov 30, 2023 7:09:34 GMT -5
It sounds more like you like/respect how the G's schema explains 'everything' (i.., as a map). Nothing wrong with that, and perhaps it can be of use and value. Not having read G in any detail, I cannot say much else. Maybe it helps finding and appreciating the edges and boundaries of where the map cannot go or, ultimately take one's attention.... Source (the non-encompassable). Dunno. Maybe map is not the best term. Better to say treasure map. The map is superfluous unless it gets you to the treasure. Right, just on the 'other' side of those dragons (mythic projections) and compasses (reason-based constructions) in the far corners of the map. |
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), sitting in the steering wheel of his truck. All those just the top of my head, I can see every one in my mind. I can also see Uncle Jerry walking up the sidewalk at our neighbors, Mother and I were on the steps at the house. Jerry was crying, he said, Bet, Daddy's dead. And I remember, they took me to that same neighbor for Grandpa's funeral, which was at home. I remember looking out the window, seeing tons of cars, and wondering why I wasn't there. I was four when he died, 4 years 5 months old, he was 64, picking apples, he sat down on a stump and had a heart attack (I don't remember that part, was told). Odd thing, I always knew where he died, never discussed it, never recalled anybody ever saying, that's where your Grandpa died. I also knew there was a sandbox in the yard, and a set of swings. Then maybe about eight years ago Mama told me I had been with Grandpa that morning, there with him picking apples, same yard. Mama said my cousin Karen begged to be with Grandpa, so they took her and brought me back. Incidentally, Mother also told me that Grandpa had been a pastor of a church for about a year, otherwise he was just a farmer. My (former) wife had played at a funeral at Cold Springs Baptist Church in Concord, I happened to go with her, which I did from time to time, and telling her, Mama said, Oh, that's where your Grandpa was pastor for a while (during the depression). That kind of blew my mind.
