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Post by tenka on Nov 28, 2022 15:38:40 GMT -5
Bruce lee popped into our spiritual circle Thursday .. It's his birthday today .  Would you rank Bruce Lee above Eckhart Tolle as a spiritual teacher? Tolle is 3-star rated by this forum. I admire Bruce Lee for his discipline and dedication and in a way he was purifying himself in his own way with mind and body . I think Tolle is a good guy, but in order to be where he is at teaching the masses one has to live by example and I don't feel he does . Bruce lee on the other hand lived by his own example I would say . He lived and breathed his practice . |
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Post by inavalan on Nov 28, 2022 15:46:16 GMT -5
You can turn it around, and wonder if you didn't (carelessly) materialize your vision, one of the infinite number of probabilities. Somehow you glimpsed something or made a connection, focused on it but not carefully enough, and your subconscious materialized it. You hadn't given any restrictions, and also put in some emotion which expedited it. It is what happens all the time in our dreams. Well I was more than happy with my car and garage, why would I carelessly materials something that wasn't on my mind? Sometimes one has to be careful of what one wishes for  but they weren't on my wish list . When we start talking about the subconscious creating stuff without one knowing then one would never know anything per se in relation to what manifests. I have a history of visions both personally and global . I don't think for instance I subconsciously brought the plane down to land on the Hudson River lol . It's fair enough to say that you don't know my history of such things .. You get to know what visions are what, what dreams are what . You seem to have more precognitive episodes than most people I heard of, or at least you pay more attention to them, which is good for you. Inner-senses (mind's psychic senses) allow non-local perception in time, space, probability. Most people believe that there is a single thread of existence in the physical-reality (because that's how it appears to be). I believe that there is an infinity of simultaneous threads, and each self creates his own thread as he goes. Your beliefs and expectations emphasize the apparent choices you can make, and the only threads you apparently can create. The negative emotions (fear, anger, hate, ...) are stronger, and more influential than the positive ones because they are tied to one's survival. Surely, true mother's love is up there too. |
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Post by tenka on Nov 28, 2022 15:50:12 GMT -5
.. last year I had a vision of seeing a white car in front of a garage . I intuitively thought that I am going to move and have a new car . Two weeks ago my next-door neighbour had a fire in his garage that swept across to mine and blew up my car and destroyed my garage . I looked for a new car and in a matter of minutes, I brought the car that was in my vision & obviously I am going to have a new garage also .. When I have these sorts of visions that I have had for many years, there doesn't seem to be anything that can stop these things from happening after I have had a vision of such things . It really does make you think that if you can see these things a year from the event, then it's in a way just playing out as it should . First of all .. whoa! .. sorry to hear of that sort of rather dramatic disruption to your life dude. I've had similar experiences that have opened my mind beyond the conventional, which is why I'm sincerely left with no question as to your claim, and that completely counter to all my old conditioning btw (and apropo of almost nothing). Now then, the question becomes, how do we interpret those? "Everything moves as one" has the potential to be a pointer to the existential truth, but can we conclude from this, or even from these unusual experiences, that all of time already exists and is predetermined? Well, first of all, before we write anything illogical, lets consider how far the intellect can take us. Ramana once addressed this question with the answer along the lines of: "free will and destiny are both ever evident". In conventional, intellectual terms, we can see that we are all destined to die, but then, on the other hand, we don't know how many people we'll have sex with or how much money we'll make between now and then. We can see that the Sun is destined to blow up into a red giant and swallow up the Earth, but we don't know how many people will be alive on the Earth on that distant day or what form humanity will have taken assuming it survives until then and whether or not any of them will have been able to save themselves by escaping out into space. So, in the conventional, intellectual sense we see that the future is a blend of the known, and the unknown. It's pure speculation to discount the unknown. Rather, the closer the future becomes to being the present, the less unknowns there are, the further away it is, the more there are. So in terms of your vision of the white car, I'd speculate that perhaps it flashed before you after some event occurred that made the eventuality either highly probable if not a foregone conclusion. In existential terms, reality is transcendent of form, transcendent of events and objects and all of duality. Reality, is neither predetermined nor random, the "past" and the "future" are both creations of mind, and the question of free-will is based on the misconception of the existential reality of the separate volitional person. Cheers dude, it was a bit of a shock to say the least, just as your going to bed and see an inferno in your back yard . I will get back to this post when I get more time . |
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Post by tenka on Nov 28, 2022 16:07:08 GMT -5
Well I was more than happy with my car and garage, why would I carelessly materials something that wasn't on my mind? Sometimes one has to be careful of what one wishes for but they weren't on my wish list . When we start talking about the subconscious creating stuff without one knowing then one would never know anything per se in relation to what manifests. I have a history of visions both personally and global . I don't think for instance I subconsciously brought the plane down to land on the Hudson River lol . It's fair enough to say that you don't know my history of such things .. You get to know what visions are what, what dreams are what . Most people believe that there is a single thread of existence in the physical-reality (because that's how it appears to be). I believe that there is an infinity of simultaneous threads, and each self creates his own thread as he goes. Your beliefs and expectations emphasize the apparent choices you can make, and the only threads you apparently can create. The negative emotions (fear, anger, hate, ...) are stronger, and more influential than the positive ones because they are tied to one's survival. Surely, true mother's love is up there too. Sure I have been active for a few decades now and write down the names of those that are going to passover into spirit . Mostly famous peeps to be honest. I get the visitations of past prophets who resonate with my energy. This is just one aspect of my experiences. I do understand the power of creating and manifesting things unconsciously there's no doubt in my mind. I had bad back pain for quite a few years, it would always happen during the xmas holidays. I would be lying on the floor crying in pain not being able to get my self to the toilet and I prayed for help. I laid there for a few minutes and someone from spirit shouted out engram. I researched it to be unconscious patterns manifesting in around about way . I had to reprogramme myself to release this emotional pattern that created this for me. If you can manifest pain of the body then you can manifest something else for sure . |
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Post by inavalan on Nov 28, 2022 16:38:04 GMT -5
You seem to have more precognitive episodes than most people I heard of, or at least you pay more attention to them, which is good for you. Inner-senses (mind's psychic senses) allow non-local perception in time, space, probability.Most people believe that there is a single thread of existence in the physical-reality (because that's how it appears to be). I believe that there is an infinity of simultaneous threads, and each self creates his own thread as he goes. Your beliefs and expectations emphasize the apparent choices you can make, and the only threads you apparently can create. The negative emotions (fear, anger, hate, ...) are stronger, and more influential than the positive ones because they are tied to one's survival. Surely, true mother's love is up there too. Sure I have been active for a few decades now and write down the names of those that are going to passover into spirit . Mostly famous peeps to be honest. I get the visitations of past prophets who resonate with my energy. This is just one aspect of my experiences. I do understand the power of creating and manifesting things unconsciously there's no doubt in my mind. I had bad back pain for quite a few years, it would always happen during the xmas holidays. I would be lying on the floor crying in pain not being able to get my self to the toilet and I prayed for help. I laid there for a few minutes and someone from spirit shouted out engram. I researched it to be unconscious patterns manifesting in around about way . I had to reprogramme myself to release this emotional pattern that created this for me. If you can manifest pain of the body then you can manifest something else for sure . Your post reminds of Djokovic's story (the tennis champ). - (The Independent) Cetojevic told Djokovic to stretch out his right arm while placing his left hand on his stomach. The doctor then pushed down on Djokovic's right arm and told him to resist the pressure. The strength Djokovic would feel in holding firm, the doctor said, was exactly what he should experience.
Next Cetojevic gave Djokovic a slice of bread. He told the bemused player not to eat it but to hold it against his stomach with his left hand while he again pushed down on his outstretched right arm. To Djokovic's astonishment, the arm felt appreciably weaker.
It was what Cetojevic had expected. His crude test had been to discover whether Djokovic was sensitive to gluten, a protein found in wheat and other bread grains. Looking back, it was the moment when Djokovic discovered why he had suffered so many mid-match collapses in his career – and the starting point for a lifestyle change which led to his becoming world No 1 just 12 months later.
The Djokovic story could be used to exemplify the multi-level approach in dealing with reality. Djokovic experiences unexpected match losses. 1. He could draw the conclusion that he isn't prepared enough, so he needs to train more. 2. A next level, would be to realize that he unexpectedly gets weak in some matches, so he needs to workout to improve his physical conditioning. 3. A next level: he could be consulting a medical doctor, that could give him some legal medicines and supplements, and make other lifestyle recommendations. 4. Further, he could consult a specialist that identifies his allergy to gluten, and recommend specific dietary changes. 5. Eventually he could consult and engage a psychoanalyst to find out the psychic cause of his situation. 6. And if he somehow ends up consulting a non-conventional healer he might discover the belief that made him not win matches, and fix it. Djokovic seems to have gotten up to #4. All seemed well, and the crowd labeled him as weird, exaggerated. Still he couldn't keep winning because the covid happened. He couldn't play and win in the Australian Open because of violating a quarantine mandate, and faced the opprobrium of the pro-vax herd. Then he couldn't play and win in the US Open because he wasn't vaxed, and he was denied US entry. All this is because he actually, seemingly, didn't find the limiting belief that prevented him from wining. I don't know what that might be, but as long he doesn't identify it, his reality will be impacted, and all kind of obstacles will prevent him from winning as much as his skills of tennis player would allow him. |
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Post by sree on Nov 28, 2022 18:01:35 GMT -5
Would you rank Bruce Lee above Eckhart Tolle as a spiritual teacher? Tolle is 3-star rated by this forum. I admire Bruce Lee for his discipline and dedication and in a way he was purifying himself in his own way with mind and body . I think Tolle is a good guy, but in order to be where he is at teaching the masses one has to live by example and I don't feel he does . Bruce lee on the other hand lived by his own example I would say . He lived and breathed his practice . So, you are giving both a pass as spiritual teachers? One is driven by greed and the other by violence.
I have been harping about the connection between morality and spirituality in this forum always. Seems to me, right conduct doesn't matter much in new-age western spirituality that peeps expound here.
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Post by laughter on Nov 29, 2022 2:15:25 GMT -5
Ok, this is going to be condescending, but it's either that, be quiet or lie: yes, referring to the relationships between you, the Earth and the Sun was conceptual and involved objectification, but that was to meet you where you are on your perspective of the separate volitional person. You insist on and write from a perspective of that dualistic conceptualization of yourself, so I offered you a physical metaphor rooted in the same conceptualization. As I said, it was a hint, a shadow. Saying that I and you are the same is a misinterpretation of pointing by guys like JK. It's a misinterpretation of Advaita, of non-duality, of Oneness. No, not everything is conceptual. We can use concepts to state what is not true, and clearly, you are not me, and I am not you.  The truth of nonduality is so much more profound, and beautiful than that. Your mind is spinning on this dichotomy: "are you the whole, or just a part of the whole?" That's what's going on with the context flipping.
Not everything is conceptual? Even academic philosophy is moving towards realism as opposed to materialism. I have been following their arguments but they are, unfortunately, flawed. Materialism is now on shaky ground on account of quantum physics.
But I am not stardust, and I don't care about science theories because there is no way scientists can break out of their paradigm.
The context flipping will continue unless and until you direct your attention away/beyond the conceptual, because it's an intensely interesting point for you and there is no conceptual resolution to it. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 29, 2022 2:20:30 GMT -5
Sure. But reality is transcendent of what you're referring to as perception. To discover the nature of reality, discover the nature of "what perceives". You may not be able to do that, and if you believe you did, you can't be sure. If you're sure, you're probably wrong. This is a poem by a Sufi sage that's famous in nondual circles:  In that field, the dichotomy of certainty and doubt lose their meaning. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 29, 2022 2:27:28 GMT -5
Beliefs don't create reality. Beliefs color and accent the dream. Nope. Creation arises to confirm your belief. Its getting created. Ok, well, I'll bother to wade into definitions here then. What I mean by reality is not created, but eternal. Creation implies a beginning, but the limitless moment, the Now, has no beginning, has no end, and time has no meaning applied to it. You see, hear, touch and taste, and you objectify based on these senses. To you, this is reality - not an objective physical reality, but still, your "reality" is defined by the appearances that appear to you. Your "reality" is a duality, and this is why it makes sense to you that your beliefs create that reality, because you know full well that objective physical reality is a myth. But you've just traded one misconception for another. As I've written to you dozens of times over the years, reality, is neither objective, nor subjective. You cannot approach reality relatively, you cannot say what is true about reality in direct terms from the personal perspective, you can only say what is false. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 29, 2022 2:29:47 GMT -5
Nah, it's not that I " don't like" predetermination, it's just that "everything moves as one" doesn't relate to predetermination with the logic you think it does. I meant to say that everything moves as one doesn't imply predetermination. I said you follow everything moves as one but not predetermination. You've linked the two before by logic. Has your perspective on that changed? I don't "follow" "everything moves as one". It can be a pointer if the mind doesn't touch it. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 29, 2022 3:01:21 GMT -5
Not everything is conceptual, but our experience of everything is mediated. What we experience is subject to the limitations of the body, the mind-body. I would say our experience is a representation. Is a representation conceptual? I wouldn't say so. So whatever is ~out there~ cannot be known directly. But is there a something that can get beyond the limits of the mind-body? Yes. But what can be ~brought-back~ to the mind-body, can be (necessarily?) an interpretation. A scientific explanation is always going to be just a model. Scientists know this. Laffy asserted the same thing: not everything is conceptual. He also asserted that he is not me, and I am not him. What does "conceptual" mean to you guys? Is it an imagination, an idea? I believe so. And that is the conventional mindset, the consensus worldview. People know the difference between something that is conceptual and something that is not. So, what is not conceptual? Laffy referred to physical metaphor. What the hell is a physical metaphor? It is so in your face dishonest when one can form such meaningless phrases and still insist on knowing what is what. I won't give up on you guys though. I forgive you for you know not what you do.
The physical metaphor was between your body, the Earth and the Sun. It was a metaphor for the pointer of nonduality. I already explained to you why I resorted to it. You live through an intermediary that's running in your head, one that constantly divides, distinguishes, labels and generates thoughts about what is appearing to you. It's an incredibly simple point, but one that's also quite subtle, and that people can even come to understand in arbitrary depth in intellectual terms, all the while living out the pattern. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2022 4:22:50 GMT -5
Nope. Creation arises to confirm your belief. Its getting created. Ok, well, I'll bother to wade into definitions here then. What I mean by reality is not created, but eternal. Creation implies a beginning, but the limitless moment, the Now, has no beginning, has no end, and time has no meaning applied to it. You see, hear, touch and taste, and you objectify based on these senses. To you, this is reality - not an objective physical reality, but still, your "reality" is defined by the appearances that appear to you. Your "reality" is a duality, and this is why it makes sense to you that your beliefs create that reality, because you know full well that objective physical reality is a myth. But you've just traded one misconception for another. As I've written to you dozens of times over the years, reality, is neither objective, nor subjective. You cannot approach reality relatively, you cannot say what is true about reality in direct terms from the personal perspective, you can only say what is false. That clearly makes no sense! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2022 4:23:33 GMT -5
I meant to say that everything moves as one doesn't imply predetermination. I said you follow everything moves as one but not predetermination. You've linked the two before by logic. Has your perspective on that changed? I don't "follow" "everything moves as one". It can be a pointer if the mind doesn't touch it. What? You seemed to be agreeing with Enigma on that part, eh? |
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Post by laughter on Nov 29, 2022 4:32:29 GMT -5
Ok, well, I'll bother to wade into definitions here then. What I mean by reality is not created, but eternal. Creation implies a beginning, but the limitless moment, the Now, has no beginning, has no end, and time has no meaning applied to it. You see, hear, touch and taste, and you objectify based on these senses. To you, this is reality - not an objective physical reality, but still, your "reality" is defined by the appearances that appear to you. Your "reality" is a duality, and this is why it makes sense to you that your beliefs create that reality, because you know full well that objective physical reality is a myth. But you've just traded one misconception for another. As I've written to you dozens of times over the years, reality, is neither objective, nor subjective. You cannot approach reality relatively, you cannot say what is true about reality in direct terms from the personal perspective, you can only say what is false. That clearly makes no sense! Correct.  |
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Post by laughter on Nov 29, 2022 4:33:03 GMT -5
You've linked the two before by logic. Has your perspective on that changed? I don't "follow" "everything moves as one". It can be a pointer if the mind doesn't touch it. What? You seemed to be agreeing with Enigma on that part, eh? I do, and I seem to recall him arguing with you about your understanding of it. For years. |
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but they weren't on my wish list .
The truth of nonduality is so much more profound, and beautiful than that. 
