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Post by inavalan on Nov 24, 2022 22:33:00 GMT -5
Gopal stardustpilgrim This latest exchange, including the others' comments, is another example of miscommunication. We all have our systems of beliefs, and when we exchange opinions we focus on our physical-perceptions filtered by our conscious and unconscious beliefs. It is expected that each one of us has different beliefs, and uses words and information in specific ways. The miscommunication comes from the way we address and interpret the messages we perceive. We don't look to understand the meaning beyond the words. Most of us know no other way of perception, but there is an intuitive way that reduces distortions. We face the same issue with interpreting myths, old scriptures, but also events that we experience or learn about. Everything is a multi-layered symbolism that can be, and is interpreted at various depth levels by each individual. There's the saying "all hypnosis is self-hypnosis", but most people don't understand what it means.  ========== EDIT: For example, this isn't the telepathic suggestion I was talking about, while most of the replies were referring to this kind. This isn't about "free-will" either. link We actually explored this in quite depth and with much contention years ago on this forum. E' quipped that sometimes people will look at a tree an see a giraffe. Then, we all started to hold each other accountable for giraffing .... That's where "giraffing" comes from ... |
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Post by sree on Nov 24, 2022 22:44:03 GMT -5
For the person that doesn't know it's occurring, it's subconscious. Yeah. You haven't really thought that one through.  You are conscious of celebrating Thanksgiving and you would consider that a subconscious way of life. Sounds like Jason Bourne consciously carrying out missions but doesn't know he is assassinating turkeys for the state.
How many subconscious foreign wars have you been consciously supporting to defend democracy, Laffy? |
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Post by laughter on Nov 24, 2022 22:52:32 GMT -5
This is where the metaphor of awakening comes from, but it's still just another shadow on the side of Plato's cave. For as long as we're drawing breath we are engaged with life. This is a very interesting form of the existential question, if we use the metaphor of life as a dream. Do you ever wake up from the dream, or, is it that as soon as one dream ends, it's just another one that begins? The existential truth of this matter cannot be expressed by any idea. Everything is an idea.
The rock you hold in your hand is an idea which is not an imagination but a real thing that can be thrown to strike and break a window pane.
The car you drive is an idea that you can crash into a another car. An idea is a conceptual perception of a thing.
There's the possibility of an intellectual understanding of the distinction between the idea of a thing, and then the thing, in and of itself. "Ceci n'est pas une pipe". There is also a potential realization as to the nature of "thingness", that has a definite experiential facet to it. The perception of the dissolution of all physical boundary. And then, from my exploring this with others, there seems to be other various positions of understanding that are sort of in-between. I have to imagine these on a sort of common ground, having had the "all colors bleeding into one" experience in the past. These people generally don't disagree about the ultimately empty nature of ideation, but similar to as you've done here, they maintain a sort of skepticism as to what I say about how this "physical reality" of objects is really all quite mind made. That experiential realization never really completely fades, btw, and is always accessible simply by suddenly pausing and getting still. It's like deliberately willing a particular acid flashback. There is no pipe that is not a Universal conspiracy of the entirety of eternity and every atom in all of creation to make it so. Are you going to ask me to defend that idea, intellectually?  And please know that the reference to "atoms" is a pandering to object-mind, and I wasn't going to respond to this, but now I will. So no, not only is it false that "everything is an idea", you see, there is no "thing" that can ever be completely described in idealistic terms. Any ideation can only ever be an approximation.
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Post by laughter on Nov 24, 2022 22:53:08 GMT -5
What is your deepest abstraction of 'NOTHING'? My deepest abstraction of NOTHING is a thing fashioned by thought. It symbolizes the creator of all things. Every faith has a name for it. Hindus call it Brahma. The Chinese call it the Tao. You call it NOTHING?
Notice the self-contradiction here? |
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Post by inavalan on Nov 24, 2022 22:57:55 GMT -5
I agree. You can protect yourself from both intentional and unintentional negative suggestions and influences, by asking your subconscious to accept only constructive suggestions and influences, safe and beneficial. ... ... If you can talk to your subconscious, what is its language? You communicate with your subconscious directly and instantly. You may formulate your thoughts and intentions using words, just because that's how you are used to think and communicate, but what you communicate is independent of the words you use. The same goes in the other direction; you put in words your intuitive glimpses because that's how you're used to think, but you get the whole knowledge instantly. You get into an appropriate altered state of consciousness, while leaving aside all your beliefs and expectations to minimize distortions. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 24, 2022 23:02:05 GMT -5
Yeah. You haven't really thought that one through. You are conscious of celebrating Thanksgiving and you would consider that a subconscious way of life. Sounds like Jason Bourne consciously carrying out missions but doesn't know he is assassinating turkeys for the state. How many subconscious foreign wars have you been consciously supporting to defend democracy, Laffy? ok, that's funny ..  .. but your imagination is running away with you again. fwiw (and I write a version of this from time to time) there are many people who make it very clear in their own word - both living and historically - that they have a very strong sense of false personal/cultural identity, but that I admire and respect quite deeply because of their actions, abilities, accomplishments and either pathos for or great depth of relative understanding of the world. Far better men and women than even the best man I might ever hope to become.  So no, I'm not gunning for anyone, and it's very much related to what I wrote here. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 24, 2022 23:04:35 GMT -5
We actually explored this in quite depth and with much contention years ago on this forum. E' quipped that sometimes people will look at a tree an see a giraffe. Then, we all started to hold each other accountable for giraffing .... That's where "giraffing" comes from ... More or less but it's a wider and more complicated story than I've summarized. |
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Post by zazeniac on Nov 24, 2022 23:29:16 GMT -5
It's almost a certainty that the simplicity of Reality was not missed by some in every culture. Though in some milleaus, they would have to choose their words carefully, lest they be slaughtered. It's always interesting to me that once confronted by the pharisees for claiming to be God, Jesus doesn't confirm or deny. He mentions one of David's psalms with a very peculiar suggestion. Even if the incident were made up, it makes you wonder about the motivation for including it. The passage could just as easily had Jesus confirming it and persuading the pharisees through another one of many miracles. Jesus never claimed himself to be God. He was confronted by pharisees because he claimed himself to be the son of God. Regardless of what Jesus said or didn't say, the pharisees were accusing him of claiming to be God. NIV Bible, John 10:33 "We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” |
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Post by zazeniac on Nov 24, 2022 23:40:16 GMT -5
Yes, basically that is *black magic*. Any form of manipulation is black magic. Some people do know how to manipulate other people and even situations and events. Some people are control freaks, in their own little world. It's not a black magic, that's the way mind works! There is something called deliberate creation, you could visualize the DESIRED reality and make it happen. If you can see something in your mind's eye, then your creative part of mind kicks in. You could go to the shop and get the apple, or you could visualize that you are having the apple in your hand and you will be having soon by some way. It's that simple. That's why Giselle left Tom. It had nothing to do with his unretirement. My fanatsies! She's under my spell. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2022 0:29:37 GMT -5
Jesus never claimed himself to be God. He was confronted by pharisees because he claimed himself to be the son of God. Look at the times Jesus said "I Am", there were many. Why did Jesus say: Before Abraham (was), I Am. Look especially at the trial when Caiaphas asked him if he was the Messiah. I think Jesus did him one better, when he said I Am, I think he used the most holy name of God, YHVH. No proof, but why did Caiaphas react so?, he tore his garments. He says I exists before Abraham, he was talking about the preexistence of christ. Only two authors mainly believe in preexistence, One is Paul and another one is John. John's books slightly expresses Jesus as God, but not sure because of John 17:3.
John 17 : 3 This is eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
Here Jesus himself speaks Father is the only true God. This is why one can't understand what John believes, and as I said many times, first century book did not say Jesus as God, only books which were written at 2nd century expresses Jesus as God, John is the second century Book started at 90AD and finished at 120AD.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2022 0:34:20 GMT -5
It's not a black magic, that's the way mind works! There is something called deliberate creation, you could visualize the DESIRED reality and make it happen. If you can see something in your mind's eye, then your creative part of mind kicks in. You could go to the shop and get the apple, or you could visualize that you are having the apple in your hand and you will be having soon by some way. It's that simple. You have brought up something that challenges the fundamental concept of "no-mind" western spirituality as practiced in this forum. Can you program someone like zendancer, Reefs, Laffy, or someNOTHING who is capable of attending the actual minus thought (ATA-T)?
I practice minding the body. Even though I cannot know if you are programming me, I become aware when my SVP starts to do something not connected to minding the body. I stop it.
I can't do everything I wish to do. I was talking about sexual influence towards the opposite sex. They will feel like it's their own thoughts/idea so they will be drawn towards you. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2022 0:35:27 GMT -5
It's not a black magic, that's the way mind works! There is something called deliberate creation, you could visualize the DESIRED reality and make it happen. If you can see something in your mind's eye, then your creative part of mind kicks in. You could go to the shop and get the apple, or you could visualize that you are having the apple in your hand and you will be having soon by some way. It's that simple. But when you manipulate other people without their knowledge, that's 'black magic'. Then everybody is doing it, only thing is, they are not aware of it. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2022 0:39:10 GMT -5
Creepy! This reminds me of this dude I met at a recent social event. I had been having a normal conversation, about cats and dogs, with a woman. The guy then asks me if I'm going to "get her number" and asks if she is "compliant". He kept talking about women being "compliant" and it grossed me out. He had been reading some kind of guide on how to manipulate women and his whole view of the world was about how to control and manipulate people as objects. I didn't want to tangle with him, so I didn't say anything. In my opinion it would be better (more honest) to pay a prostitute than attempt to manipulate people while feigning interest in some kind of relationship. I've noticed some of that in some of the media I've seen in the last few years. There's this rather vile view that "everyone has a value in the sexual market" that generally eventually peaks at a given age and then trails off as we get older, with different curves for the two genders. But it wouldn't have traction if it didn't have some relative truth underlying it. It's a fine example of what I think of as the dark magicians falling into their own trap. There's no way to consciously practice these sort of dark arts. Also though, what gopal is referring to is the basis of the art of making a business sale. Dunno' if you done much of this, but there can be this point where you've got to the "yes", it's like a moment of temporary madness.  Telepathy is real, you could insert your thoughts into other's mind. All you need is to know the correct way to do it. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2022 0:40:22 GMT -5
Mind works in a certain way whether you like it or not. And also I am not doing that kind of influence now, I tried in the past and realized that it was working fine, so I know that secret. My goal was to make him understand he is not having any control, he is not having any freewill. There's a deeper point here that you've missed. The very presupposition that people are being manipulated and controlled is premised on the idea that it could have been otherwise. Everybody is doing all the time, we are not aware of it. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2022 0:51:07 GMT -5
It's not a black magic, that's the way mind works! There is something called deliberate creation, you could visualize the DESIRED reality and make it happen. If you can see something in your mind's eye, then your creative part of mind kicks in. You could go to the shop and get the apple, or you could visualize that you are having the apple in your hand and you will be having soon by some way. It's that simple. But it doesn't work unless you're very focused with a mind that is utterly still and undistracted, and even then, there's a matter of the degree to which your desire matches extant conditions. Far more delightful to live life with a generally quiet mind and allow such creations to manifest randomly and innocently. The results are often as much amusing as they are eerie. Once upon a time, I was learning this deliberate creation so eagerly, I was using various practice like affirmation, visualization, and I found the truth that only feeling gets manifested. But then suddenly I started reading a secret book which actually taught me way more than a simple deliberate creation, yes, it is sending your ideas into another person mind(Telepathy) and they start to feel as if it's their own idea. I was skeptical at the beginning, but when I started practicing, I was astonished that it was real, all that he spoke in that book was the truth. I was exploring various things at that time, and want to know how mind works. |
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.. but your imagination is running away with you again. 
So no, I'm not gunning for anyone, and it's very much related to what I wrote 
