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Post by sree on Nov 24, 2022 17:48:23 GMT -5
Gopal stardustpilgrim This latest exchange, including the others' comments, is another example of miscommunication. We all have our systems of beliefs, and when we exchange opinions we focus on our physical-perceptions filtered by our conscious and unconscious beliefs. It is expected that each one of us has different beliefs, and uses words and information in specific ways. The miscommunication comes from the way we address and interpret the messages we perceive. We don't look to understand the meaning beyond the words. Most of us know no other way of perception, but there is an intuitive way that reduces distortions. We face the same issue with interpreting myths, old scriptures, but also events that we experience or learn about. Everything is a multi-layered symbolism that can be, and is interpreted at various depth levels by each individual. There's the saying "all hypnosis is self-hypnosis", but most people don't understand what it means.  ========== EDIT: For example, this isn't the telepathic suggestion I was talking about, while most of the replies were referring to this kind. This isn't about "free-will" either. link Yours is the doctrine of western spirituality: to each his own. The SVP of the west rules supreme: God unto itself. It takes refuge in a place where the thought of others cannot go, a sanctuary of bliss that passeth all understanding including mine. And that's saying a helluva lot because there is nothing I can't get.
There is no miscommunication. Even though each has a different belief, the believer is the same SVP. You heard me right. There is only one SVP just as there is only one human body, one tree, one snowflake, one grain of sand, one river, one life unfolding in various ways and myriad forms. We, the many, are all one.
While traditional religions foster the harmony in oneness, new-age faiths encourage divisions that splinter humanity into billions of separate parts embroiled in eternal conflict.
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Post by laughter on Nov 24, 2022 18:05:47 GMT -5
Roller coaster is realized. If you haven't seen, then you haven't. Good luck. There are an infinite number of possible realizations, and there is no end to the depth of seeing into one's true nature. As Enigma says, "Realizations inform mind," but getting attached to any idea or any realization can act to obscure what is deeper still. Any "I/you" statement indicates that there is more to see. The fundamental question is, "Who or what am I, really?" Until THAT is discovered, the water remains shallow. As Sengstan wrote, "Stop talking and thinking and there is nothing you will not be able to know." Those who find the Absolute discover that there is no "other." Happy Thanksgiving, and may all hearts be filled with gratitude. Happy Thanksgiving ZD. Also, an excellent example of a sentiment firmly rooted on the ground, rather than from the heights of the top of a roller coaster.  |
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Post by laughter on Nov 24, 2022 18:09:30 GMT -5
There are an infinite number of possible realizations, and there is no end to the depth of seeing into one's true nature. As Enigma says, "Realizations inform mind," but getting attached to any idea or any realization can act to obscure what is deeper still. Any "I/you" statement indicates that there is more to see. The fundamental question is, "Who or what am I, really?" Until THAT is discovered, the water remains shallow. As Sengstan wrote, "Stop talking and thinking and there is nothing you will not be able to know." Those who find the Absolute discover that there is no "other." Happy Thanksgiving, and may all hearts be filled with gratitude. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. 🦃 Yes, true gratitude is one of those special, emergent things. It can even have practical applications when life starts kicking up friction. |
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Post by sree on Nov 24, 2022 18:17:11 GMT -5
Of course, Gopal is correct. The SVP is part of mass mind subject to manipulation. It is witch doctor stuff modernized by technology to zap tens and even hundreds of millions. This is why I practice minding my body to prevent the SVP from getting drawn away by evil forces.
Subconscious, my ass. It's right out in the open before your very eyes. Thanksgiving is part of the hex on the SVP.
For the person that doesn't know it's occurring, it's subconscious. I don't believe in the subconscious. According to wikipedia, this theory (aka belief) was cooked up in 1889 by Pierre Janet. Sigmund Freud picked up this idea and called it the unconscious which is the preferred term of traditional science. New-agers like "subconscious" or "pre-conscious". Either way, it points to a mind generated by the human brain. This is all premised on the musings of reason.
Do you see how you guys are fooling yourselves?
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Post by laughter on Nov 24, 2022 18:17:47 GMT -5
I can program your subconscious and you can't stop me by anyway. You will be thinking that it's coming from you not from me. You will not be even having a clue that I am sending those thoughts to you. You can fight against those thoughts but as long as I do, you keep fighting with your thoughts and at one point in time you would give up your defence and surrender to me. This kind of influence is being used to create attraction against opposite sex. Creepy! This reminds me of this dude I met at a recent social event. I had been having a normal conversation, about cats and dogs, with a woman. The guy then asks me if I'm going to "get her number" and asks if she is "compliant". He kept talking about women being "compliant" and it grossed me out. He had been reading some kind of guide on how to manipulate women and his whole view of the world was about how to control and manipulate people as objects. I didn't want to tangle with him, so I didn't say anything. In my opinion it would be better (more honest) to pay a prostitute than attempt to manipulate people while feigning interest in some kind of relationship. I've noticed some of that in some of the media I've seen in the last few years. There's this rather vile view that "everyone has a value in the sexual market" that generally eventually peaks at a given age and then trails off as we get older, with different curves for the two genders. But it wouldn't have traction if it didn't have some relative truth underlying it. It's a fine example of what I think of as the dark magicians falling into their own trap. There's no way to consciously practice these sort of dark arts. Also though, what gopal is referring to is the basis of the art of making a business sale. Dunno' if you done much of this, but there can be this point where you've got to the "yes", it's like a moment of temporary madness.  |
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Post by laughter on Nov 24, 2022 19:42:49 GMT -5
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. 🦃 Yes, true gratitude is one of those special, emergent things. Another affirmation of SVP reality.
Are we a bunch of alcoholics here at AA talking about sobriety (TPTPAU)?
Happy Thanksgiving sree.   |
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Post by laughter on Nov 24, 2022 19:50:06 GMT -5
I can program your subconscious and you can't stop me by anyway. You will be thinking that it's coming from you not from me. You will not be even having a clue that I am sending those thoughts to you. You can fight against those thoughts but as long as I do, you keep fighting with your thoughts and at one point in time you would give up your defence and surrender to me. This kind of influence is being used to create attraction against opposite sex. Gopal is right, can doesn't mean one does. Most people are not even aware of how they are manipulated. The TV industry thrived for decades by manipulation, getting you to buy products you didn't need. The old "air"-broadcast TV was paid for by advertisements, you had the 3 networks, ABC, CBS and NBC. A particular company paid for advertising on a particular TV program on the basis of its sales and TV ratings. It all depended upon taking money out of your pocket. Cable TV changed that over years. Now, the internet has changed everything. But NOTHING is free in life. You're going to pay whether you know it or not. Most everything basically operates in this manner, through unconscious manipulation. A certain major celebrity-figure controlled the USA for 5 years. Gopal is correct. The first step to getting free is to come to know it in theory, then experience. Good for those who can circumvent the manipulation. Just below "water level" of the iceberg is suggestibility. Deeper is outright manipulation and control. "The best trick of the "devil" is to make you believe he doesn't exist". If you can talk to your subconscious, what is its language? It's possible by watching thoughts as a meditative practice to get present to the exact instant that a thought is formed. In that moment, as the witness, the unconscious comes to light. This is, of course, quite situational, and all relative, but it can be ... illuminating. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 24, 2022 19:56:55 GMT -5
Creepy! This reminds me of this dude I met at a recent social event. I had been having a normal conversation, about cats and dogs, with a woman. The guy then asks me if I'm going to "get her number" and asks if she is "compliant". He kept talking about women being "compliant" and it grossed me out. He had been reading some kind of guide on how to manipulate women and his whole view of the world was about how to control and manipulate people as objects. I didn't want to tangle with him, so I didn't say anything. In my opinion it would be better (more honest) to pay a prostitute than attempt to manipulate people while feigning interest in some kind of relationship. Mind works in a certain way whether you like it or not. And also I am not doing that kind of influence now, I tried in the past and realized that it was working fine, so I know that secret. My goal was to make him understand he is not having any control, he is not having any freewill. There's a deeper point here that you've missed. The very presupposition that people are being manipulated and controlled is premised on the idea that it could have been otherwise. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 24, 2022 19:58:06 GMT -5
What a charming goal in life, Gopal. I see The Ruler hath returneth. Hip hip hurray.  I am not doing it now, I tried in the past out of curiosity and realized that it was working. My motto is to make him understand that he can't control even via subconsciousness. The existential truth is transcendent of the question of control. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 24, 2022 20:01:16 GMT -5
I can program your subconscious and you can't stop me by anyway. You will be thinking that it's coming from you not from me. You will not be even having a clue that I am sending those thoughts to you. You can fight against those thoughts but as long as I do, you keep fighting with your thoughts and at one point in time you would give up your defence and surrender to me. This kind of influence is being used to create attraction against opposite sex. Will you have a clue if you are programmed by someone? This is where the metaphor of awakening comes from, but it's still just another shadow on the side of Plato's cave. For as long as we're drawing breath we are engaged with life. This is a very interesting form of the existential question, if we use the metaphor of life as a dream. Do you ever wake up from the dream, or, is it that as soon as one dream ends, it's just another one that begins? The existential truth of this matter cannot be expressed by any idea. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 24, 2022 20:09:54 GMT -5
Yes, basically that is *black magic*. Any form of manipulation is black magic. Some people do know how to manipulate other people and even situations and events. Some people are control freaks, in their own little world. It's not a black magic, that's the way mind works! There is something called deliberate creation, you could visualize the DESIRED reality and make it happen. If you can see something in your mind's eye, then your creative part of mind kicks in. You could go to the shop and get the apple, or you could visualize that you are having the apple in your hand and you will be having soon by some way. It's that simple. But it doesn't work unless you're very focused with a mind that is utterly still and undistracted, and even then, there's a matter of the degree to which your desire matches extant conditions. Far more delightful to live life with a generally quiet mind and allow such creations to manifest randomly and innocently. The results are often as much amusing as they are eerie. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 24, 2022 20:11:56 GMT -5
Of course, Gopal is correct. The SVP is part of mass mind subject to manipulation. It is witch doctor stuff modernized by technology to zap tens and even hundreds of millions. This is why I practice minding my body to prevent the SVP from getting drawn away by evil forces.
Subconscious, my ass. It's right out in the open before your very eyes. Thanksgiving is part of the hex on the SVP.
For the person that doesn't know it's occurring, it's subconscious. Yeah. You haven't really thought that one through. |
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Post by laughter on Nov 24, 2022 20:16:55 GMT -5
It's not a black magic, that's the way mind works! There is something called deliberate creation, you could visualize the DESIRED reality and make it happen. If you can see something in your mind's eye, then your creative part of mind kicks in. You could go to the shop and get the apple, or you could visualize that you are having the apple in your hand and you will be having soon by some way. It's that simple. You have brought up something that challenges the fundamental concept of "no-mind" western spirituality as practiced in this forum. Can you program someone like zendancer, Reefs, Laffy, or someNOTHING who is capable of attending the actual minus thought (ATA-T)?
I practice minding the body. Even though I cannot know if you are programming me, I become aware when my SVP starts to do something not connected to minding the body. I stop it.
See? You've stated another version of the way I just crafted the question. Please don't misunderstand. I'm not saying that you've been programmed, just that we're both addressing the same notion. Ultimately, it's as simple as the idea of "predictability". You can certainly predict that I will always eventually say that the existential truth is beyond prediction. So in that sense, you see, I'm quite programmable.  |
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Post by laughter on Nov 24, 2022 20:23:52 GMT -5
Gopal stardustpilgrim This latest exchange, including the others' comments, is another example of miscommunication. We all have our systems of beliefs, and when we exchange opinions we focus on our physical-perceptions filtered by our conscious and unconscious beliefs. It is expected that each one of us has different beliefs, and uses words and information in specific ways. The miscommunication comes from the way we address and interpret the messages we perceive. We don't look to understand the meaning beyond the words. Most of us know no other way of perception, but there is an intuitive way that reduces distortions. We face the same issue with interpreting myths, old scriptures, but also events that we experience or learn about. Everything is a multi-layered symbolism that can be, and is interpreted at various depth levels by each individual. There's the saying "all hypnosis is self-hypnosis", but most people don't understand what it means. ========== EDIT: For example, this isn't the telepathic suggestion I was talking about, while most of the replies were referring to this kind. This isn't about "free-will" either. link We actually explored this in quite depth and with much contention years ago on this forum. E' quipped that sometimes people will look at a tree an see a giraffe. Then, we all started to hold each other accountable for giraffing .... |
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Post by sree on Nov 24, 2022 22:16:42 GMT -5
Will you have a clue if you are programmed by someone? This is where the metaphor of awakening comes from, but it's still just another shadow on the side of Plato's cave. For as long as we're drawing breath we are engaged with life. This is a very interesting form of the existential question, if we use the metaphor of life as a dream. Do you ever wake up from the dream, or, is it that as soon as one dream ends, it's just another one that begins? The existential truth of this matter cannot be expressed by any idea. Everything is an idea.
The rock you hold in your hand is an idea which is not an imagination but a real thing that can be thrown to strike and break a window pane.
The car you drive is an idea that you can crash into a another car.
An idea is a conceptual perception of a thing.
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