I could have continued this on the current dialogue-thread-Papagenos, but thought it needed a fresh start. I think I've finally got Gopal's POV nailed down, he thinks God controls everything, every action of every person, every thought. Now, I've tried my best to break through that, seems like it's not going to happen. Now, the ND view (in a manner of speaking) is that when the Biggest picture is seen, there isn't a person doing anything, there is just the movement of Oneness. These two views seem miles apart, but are they really? If Gopal is right, there isn't a person doing anything. That seems quite clear but I'm not sure he understands that.
So, in both views, there is no person doing anything. In both views personal history is irrelevant. In the NDiverse, there isn't a person doing anything, that's said quite clearly. In Gopal's view, there isn't a person because this unlimited intelligence (which Gopal calls God) is controlling everything. I really have no problem with either view. But for me, these are starting points, not ending points.
I'm going to introduce a different word, an old word. Let's call the Originating Whole, Spirit. It would be just another word for Consciousness, the origin of everything (or for Gopal, God). There is in some sense a person, we are all differentiated from each other in some sense, but in the NDiverse, no SVP (no separate volitional person, for sree). For Gopal also, there is no SVP. (Is that clear Gopal?) Now, how is a person formed in the seen world? A mother and a father each contribute 26 chromosomes, let's call the new person-to-be Alice. Before the two come together, there isn't an Alice, Alice not-now is. That's quite clear. Now, a little side trip, for a few here. An Over-soul connected to future-Alice, existed
prior to Alice, as Oversoul-Alice. But who-Alice-comes-to-be, the person, knows nothing about Oversoul-(of)-Alice.
So, now we have Spirit, Oversoul-Alice, Alice. We have Spirit as the Undifferentiated Unmanifest ND-Source. The NDiverse says there is no separate Alice, because everything is Spirit. Gopal says there is no Alice, because Spirit (in a sense understood differently from NDiverse, God) controls everything.
sdp says this is everything going off the rails. I have zero problem with Alice having a realization of Spirit, a realization of NDiverse-Spirit. But then Alice comes back to live 9-5 5 days and 24/7. Now, Alice has stamped on her this realization of NDiverse-Spirit, it permeates everything, it has changed her whole orientation to life the Universe and Everything (I wanted to get that in my thread title, FYI). But I'm going to suggest that this view aborts the possibility of what's actually going on. So what's going on? Will try to be very brief. This view throws Oversoul-Alice out the window as unnecessary and irrelevant and even non-existing. Oversoul-Alice is a kind of empty category, as far as Alice is concerned. But Oversoul-Alice is actually the link between Alice and Spirit (again, the Unmanifest, NDiverse, Source, God-for Gopal). In Yogacara (Buddhism) Oversoul-Alice is called the Storehouse. ~Where~ do the vasanas and the samskaras *exist* between incarnations? In the Oversoul-Alice-Storehouse. What is the evolution of consciousness? It's the evolution of Oversoul-Alice. Spirit has seeded Itself into the manifest world. This seed of potential is Oversoul-Alice.
Just a little further. Alice does not reincarnate. When Alice dies (when the body dies), Alice has in a certain sense done her job for one life. But everything Alice has learned and experienced goes-into "her" Oversoul-(Storehouse). But the vasanas and samkaras which Alice has participated-in, do not disintegrate upon the death of Alice (Alice is the ordinary self-ego-small s self-conditioned self-cultural self, if that isn't clear, the not-SVP). They go-into the Oversoul. Now, at a certain point the Oversoul considers it needs more data and experience to fulfill the mission set by Spirit (the Originating-Whole-Source-Consciousness), to expand into the Infinite. So the Oversoul picks out parents, participates in conception, picks out certain vasanas and samskaras that need to be worked out, and so extends a part of itself into the new baby. And everything is repeated, rinse and repeat. Now, of course there is more, but this has gotten long. But the point is the ND view essentially aborts the whole process. Eventually, "Alice" is to perfectly represent "her" Oversoul and be completely united to her Oversoul, and completely express her Oversoul, Alice disappears into her Oversoul. This accomplished, all vasanas and samaskaras extinguished, this is the fulfillment of Oversoul. Now, what is the purpose of Oversoul? To be perfectly united and at One with Spirit, and to have reached its full potential. Now, I will present that this is what Buddha accomplished, what Jesus accomplished, what Lao Tzu accomplished. So realization is just a peek, it isn't the end.
So what's the purpose of Alice? Alice is a limited POV, Alice doesn't really
do anything, both Gopal and NDiverse are correct. But if Alice can become ~aligned~, with "her" Oversoul, the sky is the limit. So Alice has to break-free from Alice. This is a kind of death of Alice, but in-this Alice comes to manifest "her" Oversoul. So the purpose of Alice, is to
cease to-be Alice, in order to manifest Oversoul. So the Oversoul is really a field of potential, it both Is, but in some sense Is-Not. In a very similar manner, as Alice didn't exist until two parents came together, and
started her, the Oversoul does-not-now-exist, except as a field of potential. Yes, Spirit exists. But Spirit forms this (individuated) field of potential, the Oversoul. So, the Oversoul doesn't incarnate, but ~extends its life~
into the incarnation, for the purpose of experiencing life and collecting data to *~grow~* its field of potential. OK, I was supposed to end a few sentences ago. ...
One more thing for sree. This kind-of-death for Alice (not the death of the body), is
not psychological suicide. Ask the butterfly, afterwards, would it rather be a caterpillar or a butterfly? So, sree, you are committing abortion, just like Gopal, and just like NDiverse. To maybe give some more context. Seth would-be/was the Oversoul of Jane. But then too, there was a Seth2, so it's complicated.
OK, one more thing, attention and awareness
come-from the Oversoul.
