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Post by inavalan on Oct 26, 2022 19:12:17 GMT -5
Thanks for bringing this up! 道可道，非常道。--- What seems a truth, it isn't a truth. 名可名，非常名。--- What seems a person, it isn't a person. 无，名天地之始；--- There is no other creator of your reality; 有，名万物之母。--- You are the creator of everything. For some other interpretations check this: linkEverybody understands through the filter of his own beliefs. This also applies to the formulation " AB is not AB; therefore it is AB", which confused many students of old Chinese ans Sanskrit texts EDIT: So awkward: |
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Post by inavalan on Oct 26, 2022 19:37:53 GMT -5
The "I ching" (The Book of Changes) is a conduit for tapping into your intuition.
It works great even for those who don't know why (in my experience).
EDIT: Carol K. Anthony passed on in August 2020, at 90.
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Post by Reefs on Oct 26, 2022 19:46:58 GMT -5
Actually, I didn't really write that in reply to you, but more with a broader audience in mind. I already knew when I wrote it that you wouldn't be able to take the constructive criticism and well-meaning guidance. I'm not interested in any battles with you. From my perspective, you've shown again and again that you are no match for me on a wide range of topics, if your interest should be in a battle of wits. Not to mention any dharma battles. Taking you on for another round would just being unnecessarily cruel. I have no interest in that. That doesn't help anyone. You see, there are many subjects you talk about with great conviction as if you actually knew something, but usually it turns out that your knowledge is limited to what anyone could find on wikipedia or via google. What a joke! Don't waste my time! Show me something real, something with substance. And forget about that Krishnamurti character, will you? Ok, my apologies for being trigger happy and quick on the draw. This here will take you further: www.tao-te-king.org/1.htm |
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Post by sree on Oct 26, 2022 22:16:28 GMT -5
You noticed correctly. I did shoot Mitchell down. He was no Chinaman and deserved to have his butt kicked by a yank. Westerners should stick to their own spiritual nonsense. Having said that, I do have an interest in Chinese philosophy. It began with Korean karate (Tae Kwon Do) when I was inspired by Mas Oyama and his Zen power. Long story short, I chucked the martial art on the way to the black belt when I noticed my battered knuckles on the piano keyboard. I switched to French ballet classes for physical fitness but my interest in the Zen aesthetic led me to the philosophy of China. Do you know the I Ching? It all begins there. The honesty is refreshing. Zen has Chinese roots, some say Taoist roots. Not much concerned about Zen roots or philosophy. Sdp knows a lot about the I Ching. I'd be interested in hearing about it from both perspectives. Is it like the parrot fortune tellers from India?Yes. It is like that. Instead of the parrot picking the cards, it is the seeker of fortune who does it. Coins are generally used instead of cards. Coins are thrown by the seeker of fortune to draw the hexagrams. They are sets of six lines which are either unbroken or broken. Now, this is where the I Ching takes off like magic. As I said, the hexagram is a set of six lines. Below is one of them:
____________ ____ ______ ____ ______ ____________ ____________ ____________
Just by looking at the above hexagram (if this is the one you had drawn as the parrot throwing the coins), you get the answer (i.e. your fortune).
As a westerner, you see only six lines above. A Chinese, not any Chinese fool, but someone like Confucius, could divine the answer to the question he posed to the I Ching just by reflecting on those lines.
Now, tell me which member in this forum would want to try consulting the I Ching?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 27, 2022 9:22:49 GMT -5
This is a chart of the 64 hexagrams (avatar), all possible combinations of 2 sets of the 8 trigrams. This shows both the 64 hexagrams and the 64 DNA codons, never seen this before, near the beginning of the pdf. Shown are more than the 64, some are repeated. I'll have to read to see what that's about. www.johnagowan.org/hexagrams.pdfI don't know the history of chess, if it originated in China, but a chess board has 64 squares. Now, what other significance does 8 have? In the western musical scale you have 7 notes, do, re, mi, fa, sol, la, si(ti). And that takes you back to do, which completes an octave, double the vibrations of the lower octave, if it is an ascending octave, or half the vibrations, if it is a descending octave. Where else is 64 significant? With our DNA. You have 4 "letters" of our DNA, A, C, G, T; adenine, cytosine, guanine, thymine. These are nucleotides. The 4 nucleotides form in triplets, and with the different combinations we end up with the 64 codons of our DNA structure, our Genetic code. Oh, too, the Periodic table is based on the octave. Where you have repeating patterns the elements have similar characteristics. For example, the noble gases are inert, meaning, in their outer shell there are the maximum number of electrons, so they do not combine with other elements to form molecules. IOW, because their outer shell is full, they do not give or receive electrons from other elements in order to form molecules. (That's from chemistry, 9th grade, 11th grade and freshman Chemistry 101, from memory, didn't check myself). But this is why the guy who designed the > periodic< table left certain places empty. He said, we're going to find an element that belongs here. He was correct. (The link slightly corrects me). Ain't all that, cool. |
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Post by zazeniac on Oct 27, 2022 9:51:36 GMT -5
The honesty is refreshing. Zen has Chinese roots, some say Taoist roots. Not much concerned about Zen roots or philosophy. Sdp knows a lot about the I Ching. I'd be interested in hearing about it from both perspectives. Is it like the parrot fortune tellers from India?Yes. It is like that. Instead of the parrot picking the cards, it is the seeker of fortune who does it. Coins are generally used instead of cards. Coins are thrown by the seeker of fortune to draw the hexagrams. They are sets of six lines which are either unbroken or broken. Now, this is where the I Ching takes off like magic. As I said, the hexagram is a set of six lines. Below is one of them:
____________ ____ ______ ____ ______ ____________ ____________ ____________ Just by looking at the above hexagram (if this is the one you had drawn as the parrot throwing the coins), you get the answer (i.e. your fortune). As a westerner, you see only six lines above. A Chinese, not any Chinese fool, but someone like Confucius, could divine the answer to the question he posed to the I Ching just by reflecting on those lines.
Now, tell me which member in this forum would want to try consulting the I Ching?
Haven't the foggiest. Obviously you, sdp and inavalan already have. |
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Post by sree on Oct 27, 2022 10:14:15 GMT -5
The honesty is refreshing. Zen has Chinese roots, some say Taoist roots. Not much concerned about Zen roots or philosophy. Sdp knows a lot about the I Ching. I'd be interested in hearing about it from both perspectives. Is it like the parrot fortune tellers from India?Yes. It is like that. Instead of the parrot picking the cards, it is the seeker of fortune who does it. Coins are generally used instead of cards. Coins are thrown by the seeker of fortune to draw the hexagrams. They are sets of six lines which are either unbroken or broken. Now, this is where the I Ching takes off like magic. As I said, the hexagram is a set of six lines. Below is one of them:
____________ ____ ______ ____ ______ ____________ ____________ ____________
Just by looking at the above hexagram (if this is the one you had drawn as the parrot throwing the coins), you get the answer (i.e. your fortune).
As a westerner, you see only six lines above. A Chinese, not any Chinese fool, but someone like Confucius, could divine the answer to the question he posed to the I Ching just by reflecting on those lines.
Now, tell me which member in this forum would want to try consulting the I Ching?
Is there no one here in the western world who can consult the I Ching? No smart ass spiritually evolved enough to read those lines? You can do it if your hairdryer is at the setting of dead stop and there is attending to the actual minus thought. Don't just talk up a storm. Just do it! You can't refer to western translations of commentaries by Confucius when he reflected on those lines. No Wilhelm book, on what Confucius and his contemporaries said, to read up on. Just look at those lines. That was how Confucius did it.
Those lines, to me, are related to the lines of Chinese calligraphy. I studied it and reflected on the Chinese version of the Tao Te Ching by writing out every character of every chapter with brush and ink on rice paper. I did this for years like a single-minded Buddhist monk minding only his body and nothing else in life: attending to the actual minus thought. No wife. No movies to watch. And I discovered the greatest Chinese value: patience, and this word doesn't have a western meaning.
So, anyone here want to consult the I Ching? First, we must ask the question, preferably one that is pertinent to this forum. As westerners, you guys may view this forum as a group of people gathering to chat. This is one viewpoint. stardust has always wanted to know why is sree here, what he is up to? Gopal has his reason for being here. Together, the forum takes on a life of its own driven by motives both innocent and sinister. So, what question shall we put to the I Ching. I warn you. This is not a game.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2022 10:30:14 GMT -5
I could have continued this on the current dialogue-thread-Papagenos, but thought it needed a fresh start. I think I've finally got Gopal's POV nailed down, he thinks God controls everything, every action of every person, every thought. Now, I've tried my best to break through that, seems like it's not going to happen. Now, the ND view (in a manner of speaking) is that when the Biggest picture is seen, there isn't a person doing anything, there is just the movement of Oneness. These two views seem miles apart, but are they really? If Gopal is right, there isn't a person doing anything. That seems quite clear but I'm not sure he understands that. So, in both views, there is no person doing anything. In both views personal history is irrelevant. In the NDiverse, there isn't a person doing anything, that's said quite clearly. In Gopal's view, there isn't a person because this unlimited intelligence (which Gopal calls God) is controlling everything. I really have no problem with either view. But for me, these are starting points, not ending points. I'm going to introduce a different word, an old word. Let's call the Originating Whole, Spirit. It would be just another word for Consciousness, the origin of everything (or for Gopal, God). There is in some sense a person, we are all differentiated from each other in some sense, but in the NDiverse, no SVP (no separate volitional person, for sree). For Gopal also, there is no SVP. (Is that clear Gopal?) Now, how is a person formed in the seen world? A mother and a father each contribute 26 chromosomes, let's call the new person-to-be Alice. Before the two come together, there isn't an Alice, Alice not-now is. That's quite clear. Now, a little side trip, for a few here. An Over-soul connected to future-Alice, existed prior to Alice, as Oversoul-Alice. But who-Alice-comes-to-be, the person, knows nothing about Oversoul-(of)-Alice. So, now we have Spirit, Oversoul-Alice, Alice. We have Spirit as the Undifferentiated Unmanifest ND-Source. The NDiverse says there is no separate Alice, because everything is Spirit. Gopal says there is no Alice, because Spirit (in a sense understood differently from NDiverse, God) controls everything. sdp says this is everything going off the rails. I have zero problem with Alice having a realization of Spirit, a realization of NDiverse-Spirit. But then Alice comes back to live 9-5 5 days and 24/7. Now, Alice has stamped on her this realization of NDiverse-Spirit, it permeates everything, it has changed her whole orientation to life the Universe and Everything (I wanted to get that in my thread title, FYI). But I'm going to suggest that this view aborts the possibility of what's actually going on. So what's going on? Will try to be very brief. This view throws Oversoul-Alice out the window as unnecessary and irrelevant and even non-existing. Oversoul-Alice is a kind of empty category, as far as Alice is concerned. But Oversoul-Alice is actually the link between Alice and Spirit (again, the Unmanifest, NDiverse, Source, God-for Gopal). In Yogacara (Buddhism) Oversoul-Alice is called the Storehouse. ~Where~ do the vasanas and the samskaras *exist* between incarnations? In the Oversoul-Alice-Storehouse. What is the evolution of consciousness? It's the evolution of Oversoul-Alice. Spirit has seeded Itself into the manifest world. This seed of potential is Oversoul-Alice. Just a little further. Alice does not reincarnate. When Alice dies (when the body dies), Alice has in a certain sense done her job for one life. But everything Alice has learned and experienced goes-into "her" Oversoul-(Storehouse). But the vasanas and samkaras which Alice has participated-in, do not disintegrate upon the death of Alice (Alice is the ordinary self-ego-small s self-conditioned self-cultural self, if that isn't clear, the not-SVP). They go-into the Oversoul. Now, at a certain point the Oversoul considers it needs more data and experience to fulfill the mission set by Spirit (the Originating-Whole-Source-Consciousness), to expand into the Infinite. So the Oversoul picks out parents, participates in conception, picks out certain vasanas and samskaras that need to be worked out, and so extends a part of itself into the new baby. And everything is repeated, rinse and repeat. Now, of course there is more, but this has gotten long. But the point is the ND view essentially aborts the whole process. Eventually, "Alice" is to perfectly represent "her" Oversoul and be completely united to her Oversoul, and completely express her Oversoul, Alice disappears into her Oversoul. This accomplished, all vasanas and samaskaras extinguished, this is the fulfillment of Oversoul. Now, what is the purpose of Oversoul? To be perfectly united and at One with Spirit, and to have reached its full potential. Now, I will present that this is what Buddha accomplished, what Jesus accomplished, what Lao Tzu accomplished. So realization is just a peek, it isn't the end. So what's the purpose of Alice? Alice is a limited POV, Alice doesn't really do anything, both Gopal and NDiverse are correct. But if Alice can become ~aligned~, with "her" Oversoul, the sky is the limit. So Alice has to break-free from Alice. This is a kind of death of Alice, but in-this Alice comes to manifest "her" Oversoul. So the purpose of Alice, is to cease to-be Alice, in order to manifest Oversoul. So the Oversoul is really a field of potential, it both Is, but in some sense Is-Not. In a very similar manner, as Alice didn't exist until two parents came together, and started her, the Oversoul does-not-now-exist, except as a field of potential. Yes, Spirit exists. But Spirit forms this (individuated) field of potential, the Oversoul. So, the Oversoul doesn't incarnate, but ~extends its life~ into the incarnation, for the purpose of experiencing life and collecting data to *~grow~* its field of potential. OK, I was supposed to end a few sentences ago. ... One more thing for sree. This kind-of-death for Alice (not the death of the body), is not psychological suicide. Ask the butterfly, afterwards, would it rather be a caterpillar or a butterfly? So, sree, you are committing abortion, just like Gopal, and just like NDiverse. To maybe give some more context. Seth would-be/was the Oversoul of Jane. But then too, there was a Seth2, so it's complicated. OK, one more thing, attention and awareness come-from the Oversoul. Pilgrims, I did not say God controls everything, I said God wrote the script, both are completely different meaning. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 27, 2022 11:05:55 GMT -5
Yes. It is like that. Instead of the parrot picking the cards, it is the seeker of fortune who does it. Coins are generally used instead of cards. Coins are thrown by the seeker of fortune to draw the hexagrams. They are sets of six lines which are either unbroken or broken. Now, this is where the I Ching takes off like magic. As I said, the hexagram is a set of six lines. Below is one of them:
____________ ____ ______ ____ ______ ____________ ____________ ____________ Just by looking at the above hexagram (if this is the one you had drawn as the parrot throwing the coins), you get the answer (i.e. your fortune). As a westerner, you see only six lines above. A Chinese, not any Chinese fool, but someone like Confucius, could divine the answer to the question he posed to the I Ching just by reflecting on those lines.
Now, tell me which member in this forum would want to try consulting the I Ching?
Is there no one here in the western world who can consult the I Ching? No smart ass spiritually evolved enough to read those lines? You can do it if your hairdryer is at the setting of dead stop and there is attending to the actual minus thought. Don't just talk up a storm. Just do it! You can't refer to western translations of commentaries by Confucius when he reflected on those lines. No Wilhelm book, on what Confucius and his contemporaries said, to read up on. Just look at those lines. That was how Confucius did it.
Those lines, to me, are related to the lines of Chinese calligraphy. I studied it and reflected on the Chinese version of the Tao Te Ching by writing out every character of every chapter with brush and ink on rice paper. I did this for years like a single-minded Buddhist monk minding only his body and nothing else in life: attending to the actual minus thought. No wife. No movies to watch. And I discovered the greatest Chinese value: patience, and this word doesn't have a western meaning.
So, anyone here want to consult the I Ching? First, we must ask the question, preferably one that is pertinent to this forum. As westerners, you guys may view this forum as a group of people gathering to chat. This is one viewpoint. stardust has always wanted to know why is sree here, what he is up to? Gopal has his reason for being here. Together, the forum takes on a life of its own driven by motives both innocent and sinister. So, what question shall we put to the I Ching. I warn you. This is not a game.
I wouldn't have the patience to study the I Ching the way you did. About all I remember is that three solid lines mean Heaven and 3 broken lines mean Earth, makes sense. ....I'll think on a question. When we arrive at a question it would be interesting if, you, sdp and inavalan each select a hexagram, see if we happen to get the same one. The odds would be astronomical. (I'm sure someone here could calculate the odds. 3 people each arriving at the same number from 1-64). I'll list the other 6, I guess that's cheating. But (maybe?) you can show how you arrived at your interpretation, from scratch. 2 unbroken-top 1 broken Wind; 2 broken-top 1 unbroken Thunder; 2 broken-top 1 unbroken Mountain; 1 broken-top 2 unbroken Marsh; broken unbroken broken Water; unbroken broken unbroken Fire Carol Anthony developed her own interpretations of the hexagrams from years of experience with different people asking questions. |
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Post by sree on Oct 27, 2022 11:10:31 GMT -5
Is there no one here in the western world who can consult the I Ching? No smart ass spiritually evolved enough to read those lines? You can do it if your hairdryer is at the setting of dead stop and there is attending to the actual minus thought. Don't just talk up a storm. Just do it! You can't refer to western translations of commentaries by Confucius when he reflected on those lines. No Wilhelm book, on what Confucius and his contemporaries said, to read up on. Just look at those lines. That was how Confucius did it.
Those lines, to me, are related to the lines of Chinese calligraphy. I studied it and reflected on the Chinese version of the Tao Te Ching by writing out every character of every chapter with brush and ink on rice paper. I did this for years like a single-minded Buddhist monk minding only his body and nothing else in life: attending to the actual minus thought. No wife. No movies to watch. And I discovered the greatest Chinese value: patience, and this word doesn't have a western meaning.
So, anyone here want to consult the I Ching? First, we must ask the question, preferably one that is pertinent to this forum. As westerners, you guys may view this forum as a group of people gathering to chat. This is one viewpoint. stardust has always wanted to know why is sree here, what he is up to? Gopal has his reason for being here. Together, the forum takes on a life of its own driven by motives both innocent and sinister. So, what question shall we put to the I Ching. I warn you. This is not a game.
I wouldn't have the patience to study the I Ching the way you did. About all I remember is that three solid lines mean Heaven and 3 broken lines mean Earth, makes sense. ....I'll think on a question. When we arrive at a question it would be interesting if, you, sdp and inavalan each select a hexagram, see if we happen to get the same one. The odds would be astronomical. (I'm sure someone here could calculate the odds. 3 people each arriving at the same number from 1-64). I'll list the other 6, I guess that's cheating. But (maybe?) you can show how you arrived at your interpretation, from scratch. 2 unbroken-top 1 broken Wind; 2 broken-top 1 unbroken Thunder; 2 broken-top 1 unbroken Mountain; 1 broken-top 2 unbroken Marsh; broken unbroken broken Water; unbroken broken unbroken Fire Carol Anthony developed her own interpretations of the hexagrams from years of experience with different people asking questions. Leave Carol Anthony out of this. No interpretations from third parties. We must have psychic purity and focus.
I will conduct this consultation unless some smart ass thinks he is better at this.
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Post by zazeniac on Oct 27, 2022 11:10:49 GMT -5
That your translation trumps Mitchell's. Though Reefs sees it differently. So you're an Eastern Westerner, an American with Chinese sensibilities. It's hard to fathom. Can't help but notice that you did what you criticized to Mitchell. You noticed correctly. I did shoot Mitchell down. He was no Chinaman and deserved to have his butt kicked by a yank. Westerners should stick to their own spiritual nonsense. Having said that, I do have an interest in Chinese philosophy. It began with Korean karate (Tae Kwon Do) when I was inspired by Mas Oyama and his Zen power. Long story short, I chucked the martial art on the way to the black belt when I noticed my battered knuckles on the piano keyboard. I switched to French ballet classes for physical fitness but my interest in the Zen aesthetic led me to the philosophy of China. Do you know the I Ching? It all begins there. In college. I lived in an international house, many Chinese students, a couple of Taiwanese students. All into martial arts. One guy, Chinese-American, from San Fran would go out to red neck bars to beat up people. Reminded me of Oyama and MPs. Another, a Taiwanese Marine was an incredible fighter. I asked him to teach me. But he kept rejecting my request. Finally, he gave me my first lesson which was to take one breath per minute for ten minutes. To this day, I've been unable to complete it. Though I've come close. But the baddest dude in that house, and there were some really bad ones, was a Greek greco-roman wrestler who had competed in the Olympics. He would take on four or five us at a time and inflict pain and torture. Bodies flying everywhere. There was a Mexican dude there who was a Tae Kwon Do black belt. He'd stand in a door frame and kick the top. French ballet? Interesting. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 27, 2022 11:14:17 GMT -5
I could have continued this on the current dialogue-thread-Papagenos, but thought it needed a fresh start. I think I've finally got Gopal's POV nailed down, he thinks God controls everything, every action of every person, every thought. Now, I've tried my best to break through that, seems like it's not going to happen. Now, the ND view (in a manner of speaking) is that when the Biggest picture is seen, there isn't a person doing anything, there is just the movement of Oneness. These two views seem miles apart, but are they really? If Gopal is right, there isn't a person doing anything. That seems quite clear but I'm not sure he understands that. So, in both views, there is no person doing anything. In both views personal history is irrelevant. In the NDiverse, there isn't a person doing anything, that's said quite clearly. In Gopal's view, there isn't a person because this unlimited intelligence (which Gopal calls God) is controlling everything. I really have no problem with either view. But for me, these are starting points, not ending points. I'm going to introduce a different word, an old word. Let's call the Originating Whole, Spirit. It would be just another word for Consciousness, the origin of everything (or for Gopal, God). There is in some sense a person, we are all differentiated from each other in some sense, but in the NDiverse, no SVP (no separate volitional person, for sree). For Gopal also, there is no SVP. (Is that clear Gopal?) Now, how is a person formed in the seen world? A mother and a father each contribute 26 chromosomes, let's call the new person-to-be Alice. Before the two come together, there isn't an Alice, Alice not-now is. That's quite clear. Now, a little side trip, for a few here. An Over-soul connected to future-Alice, existed prior to Alice, as Oversoul-Alice. But who-Alice-comes-to-be, the person, knows nothing about Oversoul-(of)-Alice. So, now we have Spirit, Oversoul-Alice, Alice. We have Spirit as the Undifferentiated Unmanifest ND-Source. The NDiverse says there is no separate Alice, because everything is Spirit. Gopal says there is no Alice, because Spirit (in a sense understood differently from NDiverse, God) controls everything. sdp says this is everything going off the rails. I have zero problem with Alice having a realization of Spirit, a realization of NDiverse-Spirit. But then Alice comes back to live 9-5 5 days and 24/7. Now, Alice has stamped on her this realization of NDiverse-Spirit, it permeates everything, it has changed her whole orientation to life the Universe and Everything (I wanted to get that in my thread title, FYI). But I'm going to suggest that this view aborts the possibility of what's actually going on. So what's going on? Will try to be very brief. This view throws Oversoul-Alice out the window as unnecessary and irrelevant and even non-existing. Oversoul-Alice is a kind of empty category, as far as Alice is concerned. But Oversoul-Alice is actually the link between Alice and Spirit (again, the Unmanifest, NDiverse, Source, God-for Gopal). In Yogacara (Buddhism) Oversoul-Alice is called the Storehouse. ~Where~ do the vasanas and the samskaras *exist* between incarnations? In the Oversoul-Alice-Storehouse. What is the evolution of consciousness? It's the evolution of Oversoul-Alice. Spirit has seeded Itself into the manifest world. This seed of potential is Oversoul-Alice. Just a little further. Alice does not reincarnate. When Alice dies (when the body dies), Alice has in a certain sense done her job for one life. But everything Alice has learned and experienced goes-into "her" Oversoul-(Storehouse). But the vasanas and samkaras which Alice has participated-in, do not disintegrate upon the death of Alice (Alice is the ordinary self-ego-small s self-conditioned self-cultural self, if that isn't clear, the not-SVP). They go-into the Oversoul. Now, at a certain point the Oversoul considers it needs more data and experience to fulfill the mission set by Spirit (the Originating-Whole-Source-Consciousness), to expand into the Infinite. So the Oversoul picks out parents, participates in conception, picks out certain vasanas and samskaras that need to be worked out, and so extends a part of itself into the new baby. And everything is repeated, rinse and repeat. Now, of course there is more, but this has gotten long. But the point is the ND view essentially aborts the whole process. Eventually, "Alice" is to perfectly represent "her" Oversoul and be completely united to her Oversoul, and completely express her Oversoul, Alice disappears into her Oversoul. This accomplished, all vasanas and samaskaras extinguished, this is the fulfillment of Oversoul. Now, what is the purpose of Oversoul? To be perfectly united and at One with Spirit, and to have reached its full potential. Now, I will present that this is what Buddha accomplished, what Jesus accomplished, what Lao Tzu accomplished. So realization is just a peek, it isn't the end. So what's the purpose of Alice? Alice is a limited POV, Alice doesn't really do anything, both Gopal and NDiverse are correct. But if Alice can become ~aligned~, with "her" Oversoul, the sky is the limit. So Alice has to break-free from Alice. This is a kind of death of Alice, but in-this Alice comes to manifest "her" Oversoul. So the purpose of Alice, is to cease to-be Alice, in order to manifest Oversoul. So the Oversoul is really a field of potential, it both Is, but in some sense Is-Not. In a very similar manner, as Alice didn't exist until two parents came together, and started her, the Oversoul does-not-now-exist, except as a field of potential. Yes, Spirit exists. But Spirit forms this (individuated) field of potential, the Oversoul. So, the Oversoul doesn't incarnate, but ~extends its life~ into the incarnation, for the purpose of experiencing life and collecting data to *~grow~* its field of potential. OK, I was supposed to end a few sentences ago. ... One more thing for sree. This kind-of-death for Alice (not the death of the body), is not psychological suicide. Ask the butterfly, afterwards, would it rather be a caterpillar or a butterfly? So, sree, you are committing abortion, just like Gopal, and just like NDiverse. To maybe give some more context. Seth would-be/was the Oversoul of Jane. But then too, there was a Seth2, so it's complicated. OK, one more thing, attention and awareness come-from the Oversoul. Pilgrims, I did not say God controls everything, I said God wrote the script, both are completely different meaning. I will go back and check, but if you did not say everything is determined, I have gone bonkers. I recall you saying numerous times that everything is determined. When you first came here you talked about the olas, they say how your life is, and this meant everything was determined. I hope you have changed your mind, or that I have just misunderstood you for lots of years. (Everything [just] happens, but that does not mean everything is determined. And just happening does not eliminate cause and effect. Just happens allows for accident and randomness, too). |
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Post by Reefs on Oct 27, 2022 11:14:41 GMT -5
Yes. It is like that. Instead of the parrot picking the cards, it is the seeker of fortune who does it. Coins are generally used instead of cards. Coins are thrown by the seeker of fortune to draw the hexagrams. They are sets of six lines which are either unbroken or broken. Now, this is where the I Ching takes off like magic. As I said, the hexagram is a set of six lines. Below is one of them:
____________ ____ ______ ____ ______ ____________ ____________ ____________ Just by looking at the above hexagram (if this is the one you had drawn as the parrot throwing the coins), you get the answer (i.e. your fortune). As a westerner, you see only six lines above. A Chinese, not any Chinese fool, but someone like Confucius, could divine the answer to the question he posed to the I Ching just by reflecting on those lines.
Now, tell me which member in this forum would want to try consulting the I Ching?
Is there no one here in the western world who can consult the I Ching? No smart ass spiritually evolved enough to read those lines? You can do it if your hairdryer is at the setting of dead stop and there is attending to the actual minus thought. Don't just talk up a storm. Just do it! You can't refer to western translations of commentaries by Confucius when he reflected on those lines. No Wilhelm book, on what Confucius and his contemporaries said, to read up on. Just look at those lines. That was how Confucius did it.
Those lines, to me, are related to the lines of Chinese calligraphy. I studied it and reflected on the Chinese version of the Tao Te Ching by writing out every character of every chapter with brush and ink on rice paper. I did this for years like a single-minded Buddhist monk minding only his body and nothing else in life: attending to the actual minus thought. No wife. No movies to watch. And I discovered the greatest Chinese value: patience, and this word doesn't have a western meaning.
So, anyone here want to consult the I Ching? First, we must ask the question, preferably one that is pertinent to this forum. As westerners, you guys may view this forum as a group of people gathering to chat. This is one viewpoint. stardust has always wanted to know why is sree here, what he is up to? Gopal has his reason for being here. Together, the forum takes on a life of its own driven by motives both innocent and sinister. So, what question shall we put to the I Ching. I warn you. This is not a game.
You have inner guidance, which is very precise, direct, in-the-moment guidance that doesn't require any interpretation. Why bother with something like the Yijing (or astrology or tarot) which is imprecise, indirect, run-of-the-mill outer guidance that is open to interpretation (and misinterpretation)? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2022 11:20:49 GMT -5
Pilgrims, I did not say God controls everything, I said God wrote the script, both are completely different meaning. I will go back and check, but if you did not say everything is determined, I have gone bonkers. I recall you saying numerous times that everything is determined. When you first came here you talked about the olas, they say how your life is, and this meant everything was determined. I hope you have changed your mind, or that I have just misunderstood you for lots of years. (Everything [just] happens, but that does not mean everything is determined. And just happening does not eliminate cause and effect. Just happens allows for accident and randomness, too). Whattttt? If God writes the story, then he determined everything, where is the confusion ? |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 27, 2022 11:21:19 GMT -5
I wouldn't have the patience to study the I Ching the way you did. About all I remember is that three solid lines mean Heaven and 3 broken lines mean Earth, makes sense. ....I'll think on a question. When we arrive at a question it would be interesting if, you, sdp and inavalan each select a hexagram, see if we happen to get the same one. The odds would be astronomical. (I'm sure someone here could calculate the odds. 3 people each arriving at the same number from 1-64). I'll list the other 6, I guess that's cheating. But (maybe?) you can show how you arrived at your interpretation, from scratch. 2 unbroken-top 1 broken Wind; 2 broken-top 1 unbroken Thunder; 2 broken-top 1 unbroken Mountain; 1 broken-top 2 unbroken Marsh; broken unbroken broken Water; unbroken broken unbroken Fire Carol Anthony developed her own interpretations of the hexagrams from years of experience with different people asking questions. Leave Carol Anthony out of this. No interpretations from third parties. We must have psychic purity and focus.
I will conduct this consultation unless some smart ass thinks he is better at this.
I was just saying you are not alone. Carol Anthony did not merely go by the traditional meanings, alone. Doing over and over, she saw that a certain hexagram meant a certain thing. But the hexagrams are still abstractions. I will grant that the Chinese language is closer to *the real world*, but the characters are still abstractions (just not as abstract as a mere 26 letters). |
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