What do you do for your physical health?

[lolly]

My journey was into extreme spirituality like long meditation retreats and such, then a lot of brain work at university, and finally just pure physical to the point where even my career became physical. It changed a bit now as I started researching the stock market during the lockdowns, which in australia were pretty extreme, and now I just buy shares and and train at the gym.

I have 2 areas of training at the mo, lifting heavy things as usual - and cardio. Weights in the morning. Cardio in the afternoon (treadmill and rower). The cardio has enabled me to get back into music, too, by which I mean actual music, and if you don't what I mean by that, you have no class. Sorry, but I'm a music snob who is highly intolerant of plebs.

Anyway. You have a body you are bless with, or stuck with, and the powers that be are pushing us to eat junk and sit in front of screens all day. One day you will get old, and you know how to be healthy in old age? Be healthy when you are young.

[andrew]

I walk a bit, and the roads around me are pleasant for cycling, so I go out on the bike sometimes. Might do some swimming over summer.

I don't like the sensation of effort, so I'm a gentle exerciser, but I can say for sure that I've noticed that stress is a lot less physically intense on the body when I'm going through an exercise phase. Heart rate is better, breathing better etc.

[zendancer]

MIND diet, no junk food, walk 5-10,000 steps per day with steep hill climbing, deep sleep, ATA-T, dancing, stretching, balance exercises, annual exams, social engagement, etc. Nothing formal, nothing rigid, no expectations, just go with the flow.

[stardustpilgrim]

I learned watching my Father (Type 2) that diabetes absolutely destroys the body. I learned by watching and talking to my sister, and my own study, that the majority of doctors do not know how to treat diabetes properly (it is exceptionally complicated). After eating basically anything I wanted most of my life, about 5 years ago I had high blood sugar after an 8 hour fast. (My Mother made me check my blood sugar once a year for about 10 years, with her meter). Within a week I got that down to a slightly high range, and in a couple of weeks to normal. (Below 100 is normal, from reading, but a doctor will allow up to 117). So I basically try to stay away from processed/packaged food, except on rare occasions, no sweets, no cake, no pie, no cookies, etc. I love bread, stopped eating bread, but a few weeks ago discovered "keto friendly" bread, 19g carbs for 2 slices. (White bread basically turns to glucose almost immediately. Whole Oat bread is the best bread to eat, if you can't give up bread. I basically eat a keto diet, which allows 30g a day [processed] carbs, that's not much. I also bought a breath keto meter, which is the least expensive means to check for ketosis. It's difficult to get into ketosis, took me about 3 weeks [after checking daily after I got my meter]. But once you're there it's relatively easy to stay near ketosis and to get into ketosis, that is, fat burning mode). No white rice (not much rice period), no white potatoes. I eat a little fish, rarely some chicken or turkey, virtually no red meat.

I had borderline high blood pressure for about ten years. I was able to get that to normal by loosing down to 190 lbs, or eating no meat whatsoever for 8 months (see book The China Study). Then they changed the numbers for normal blood pressure, so without doing anything I suddenly had high blood pressure. (Now, to be not-have high BP you have to be 130/80 or lower). About 3 years ago I chanced upon a book by an MD who had studied the problem extensively, and I started taking the supplements she recommended. (Basically her view is most doctors only treat symptoms by medication, they don't really do anything to help the body to heal). Within a few months I got my BP to normal, right now I'm at 224 lbs, still normal, usually less than 120/80. I accidentally discovered another key factor (regular exercise). Until a year ago I lived in a neighborhood, and walked regularly, usually 1.2-1.7 miles (4-5 times a week), since retiring 8 years ago from electrical. Then I moved to the country, no neighborhood walking, shoulders too narrow to walk on the road. So, basically I stopped walking. It took about 6 months, but 2 weeks before my annual checkup my blood pressure shot up. So my doctor wasn't happy. He (for the first time) suggested blood pressure medication. I didn't say no (which I had firmly in my mind), I told him I was sure I could get it back down. So he said OK, come back in 2 months.

When my BP had shot up the 2 weeks previous to my visit, I started walking. About 150 yards up from where I live there is a side street, a dead end street, no real traffic. There is room to walk off the highway up to this street, the street is about .75 mile to the end and back, so my total walk is about 1 mile. I have walked every day for 5 months, and after the 2 months my doctor was OK with my BP, said come back in 10 months.

So I've learned to take care of myself, that (most) doctors don't know s**t. Good nutrition is essential, but almost impossible without supplements. I also do intermittent fasting (usually 16-8, basically no breakfast), but at 70 it's still difficult to lose weight, but plan to eventually get down to 177 lbs (for several reasons). Also studying ph balance. Good gut health is also important, probiotics and prebiotics. In the process of all this I got rid of all heart burn/acid reflux, which had also been a problem for over 35 years. (Self-discovery, sugar is the worst thing for causing heart burn).

[laughter]

Every now and then the body will quip to me "You know I'm not a garbage dump, right?? "

Obviously that means I'm suffering from a split-mind delusion, but all you all talking about "your" physical health it's quite clear that you haven't yet realized that you're not SVP's, and your belief in anything "physical" is misconceived.

[andrew]

May 6, 2022 13:51:50 GMT -5 laughter said:

Every now and then the body will quip to me "You know I'm not a garbage dump, right?? "

Obviously that means I'm suffering from a split-mind delusion, but all you all talking about "your" physical health it's quite clear that you haven't yet realized that you're not SVP's, and your belief in anything "physical" is misconceived.

I went looking for a funny meme/image in response, and then remembered that we don't do those here, but during my 2 minute search I stumbled on a quite wonderful J Krishnamurti quote that I've never seen before, so I'll share that instead

“I admire and respect the tenacity, courage, and patience of the unenlightened in the face of so much overwhelming evidence.”

[laughter]

May 6, 2022 17:03:56 GMT -5 andrew said:

May 6, 2022 13:51:50 GMT -5 laughter said:

Every now and then the body will quip to me "You know I'm not a garbage dump, right?? "

Obviously that means I'm suffering from a split-mind delusion, but all you all talking about "your" physical health it's quite clear that you haven't yet realized that you're not SVP's, and your belief in anything "physical" is misconceived.

I went looking for a funny meme/image in response, and then remembered that we don't do those here, but during my 2 minute search I stumbled on a quite wonderful J Krishnamurti quote that I've never seen before, so I'll share that instead

“I admire and respect the tenacity, courage, and patience of the unenlightened in the face of so much overwhelming evidence.”

[lolly]

May 5, 2022 20:15:40 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

I learned watching my Father (Type 2) that diabetes absolutely destroys the body. I learned by watching and talking to my sister, and my own study, that the majority of doctors do not know how to treat diabetes properly (it is exceptionally complicated). After eating basically anything I wanted most of my life, about 5 years ago I had high blood sugar after an 8 hour fast. (My Mother made me check my blood sugar once a year for about 10 years, with her meter). Within a week I got that down to a slightly high range, and in a couple of weeks to normal. (Below 100 is normal, from reading, but a doctor will allow up to 117). So I basically try to stay away from processed/packaged food, except on rare occasions, no sweets, no cake, no pie, no cookies, etc. I love bread, stopped eating bread, but a few weeks ago discovered "keto friendly" bread, 19g carbs for 2 slices. (White bread basically turns to glucose almost immediately. Whole Oat bread is the best bread to eat, if you can't give up bread. I basically eat a keto diet, which allows 30g a day [processed] carbs, that's not much. I also bought a breath keto meter, which is the least expensive means to check for ketosis. It's difficult to get into ketosis, took me about 3 weeks [after checking daily after I got my meter]. But once you're there it's relatively easy to stay near ketosis and to get into ketosis, that is, fat burning mode). No white rice (not much rice period), no white potatoes. I eat a little fish, rarely some chicken or turkey, virtually no red meat.

I had borderline high blood pressure for about ten years. I was able to get that to normal by loosing down to 190 lbs, or eating no meat whatsoever for 8 months (see book The China Study). Then they changed the numbers for normal blood pressure, so without doing anything I suddenly had high blood pressure. (Now, to be not-have high BP you have to be 130/80 or lower). About 3 years ago I chanced upon a book by an MD who had studied the problem extensively, and I started taking the supplements she recommended. (Basically her view is most doctors only treat symptoms by medication, they don't really do anything to help the body to heal). Within a few months I got my BP to normal, right now I'm at 224 lbs, still normal, usually less than 120/80. I accidentally discovered another key factor (regular exercise). Until a year ago I lived in a neighborhood, and walked regularly, usually 1.2-1.7 miles (4-5 times a week), since retiring 8 years ago from electrical. Then I moved to the country, no neighborhood walking, shoulders too narrow to walk on the road. So, basically I stopped walking. It took about 6 months, but 2 weeks before my annual checkup my blood pressure shot up. So my doctor wasn't happy. He (for the first time) suggested blood pressure medication. I didn't say no (which I had firmly in my mind), I told him I was sure I could get it back down. So he said OK, come back in 2 months.

When my BP had shot up the 2 weeks previous to my visit, I started walking. About 150 yards up from where I live there is a side street, a dead end street, no real traffic. There is room to walk off the highway up to this street, the street is about .75 mile to the end and back, so my total walk is about 1 mile. I have walked every day for 5 months, and after the 2 months my doctor was OK with my BP, said come back in 10 months.

So I've learned to take care of myself, that (most) doctors don't know s**t. Good nutrition is essential, but almost impossible without supplements. I also do intermittent fasting (usually 16-8, basically no breakfast), but at 70 it's still difficult to lose weight, but plan to eventually get down to 177 lbs (for several reasons). Also studying ph balance. Good gut health is also important, probiotics and prebiotics. In the process of all this I got rid of all heart burn/acid reflux, which had also been a problem for over 35 years. (Self-discovery, sugar is the worst thing for causing heart burn).

The most effective way to deal with t2 diabetes and or hypertension is to lose excess body fat. A good nutrition plan coupled with exercise dramatically reverses such conditions in almost all individuals.

'Fat burning mode' could be a thing (it's meaningless), but losing fat from a bodyweight perspective is eating less calories than consumed. To avoid losing lean mass (muscles) a low calorie, high protein diet coupled with resistance exercise does the trick. The official keto diet is very high fat and not actually all that high in protein, but these days, 'keto' seems to mean very low carbs as opposed to very high fat, so the difference in calories ends up being protein. It works not because of 'fat burn mode keto magic' but because of reduced calories from elimination of carbs - and high protein. Of course, like all reasonable diets, it excludes or drastically reduces high calorie low nutrient foods (junk or processed food), especially high calorie liquids that do nothing to satiate hunger. Scammers use slogans like 'fat burning mode', which is typical of keto gurus - but losing body fat really only means low calorie and high protein.

Coupled with resistance exercise, lean mass is preserved or even gained, though it's not particularly realistic to expect lean mass gain in a calorie deficit. Not that keto doesn't work. Just that it doesn't work for the reasons they say. It works or the reasons I just said. I question even the diabetic claims they make for keto as well, but I have no expertise in that area, and it's probably fair to say keto is safe and reasonably advisable for diabetics.

I's say that any doctor claiming healing supplements is a quack. Supplementation is the lowest priority of a reasonable nutrition plan. They do not work unless one's nutrition from food is good. Hence, doctors making broad claims about supplements without knowing individuals' nutrient deficits are literally lying for profit. I'm really glad this worked out so well for you, but if I didn't consider the likely benefit of a placebo effect, I'd say it worked for you because of the overall nutrition/exercise and the supplements did little if anything at all.  Supplement scammers are my biggest peeve, especially when it's done by actual doctors. It's pretty rare for medics to be like that, so I'd venture that the doctor you refer to is a chiropractor. It's usually the chiropractors.

On the whole you are completely on track - fat loss and cardio exercise is optimal for high blood pressure. Doctors know that full well, but they are drug pushers and have very poor knowledge of nutrition and physiology.

It's not like the China study studied obese people who do nothing. They took a very large sample of mostly lean and active people, and the study is since used to cherry pick all sorts of evidence for nutrition guru hokum. I also doubt very much that the participants were taking any supplements, which furthers my earlier grip on the issue.

Good nutrition and an efficiently functioning metabolism (being lean) reduces the need for supplements and it is possible to get all your nutrients from food. People are busy, find it hard to have really good diets and need convenience, so we'd top off any nutrient deficiency with supplements once their eating is in check. As I say, supplements are actually the lowest priority in any proper nutrition plan.

The nutritional priorities are as such

1) Adequate/appropriate calories

2) Enough protein + other macronutrients (makes up calories)

3) Micronutrients (vits and mins and fluids)

4) Meal timing

5) Supplements

[stardustpilgrim]

Sherry A Rogers MD is the author who got my blood pressure down. I may have used the wrong word, supplements. What she recommended is what in your list you are calling micronutrients. The book of hers I read is called The High Blood Pressure Hoax. The hoax is that doctors recommend anything to actually help the body to heal, doctors for the most part treat symptoms. Example, the first things doctors do for high blood pressure is give you a fluid pill. With less fluid in the blood vessels there is less pressure. So your blood pressure is lowered, yes, but your actual problem is not solved. The micronutrients she recommends (she doesn't sell supplements) actually help repair the blood vessels. (I don't have the full list, as I take other supplements and don't remember all that are blood pressure specific, and my book is not handy. But these are the main list. Minerals, about 10 specific, selenium, zinc, calcium, potassium, magnesium, manganese, molybdenum, vanadium, chromium, boron, the chelated form better. R-Lipoic acid [specifically], resveratrol, glutathione, glutamine, L-Arginine, L-Citrulline, vitamin E, a brand that has all 4 tocotrienols and 4 tocopherols, [not easy to find, and specifically not synthetic vitamin E], vit a, vit b1, b6, niacin, vit K2

She has written many other books, she does a deep dive into papers written, and gives the sources, very long list. She started research because of multiple health problems of her own. She is very high on the macrobiotic diet. The keto information came from elsewhere, I slowly evolved into keto. From other sources developing a diet for high blood sugar, when I looked into keto I realized I was already doing about 75% keto, so taking the last step was relatively easy (keto is not easy). The question keto answers is, what does it take for the body to burn its excess fat? (It's a long complicated process, especially if you have f***** up your pancreas overloading it by eating too much (which I had done). Insulin resistance is a real thing, not easy to reverse). But basically, when the body uses the calories you have eaten and needs more energy, it goes to the glucose stored in the muscles and to fat stored in the liver. Only after these are exhausted do you begin to burn body fat, that's ketosis.

Other benefits of burning fat for fuel instead of carbs for fuel, I'm never hungry, I have endless energy, do not get sleepy during the day (from low blood sugar). A key phrase for keto is: You eat fat to lose fat.

www.westonaprice.org/book-reviews/the-high-blood-pressure-hoax-by-sherry-a-rogers/?msclkid=b24712edced111ecaeb93e59f129fe4b

[Reefs]

May 5, 2022 7:27:57 GMT -5 lolly said:

My journey was into extreme spirituality like long meditation retreats and such, then a lot of brain work at university, and finally just pure physical to the point where even my career became physical. It changed a bit now as I started researching the stock market during the lockdowns, which in australia were pretty extreme, and now I just buy shares and and train at the gym.

I have 2 areas of training at the mo, lifting heavy things as usual - and cardio. Weights in the morning. Cardio in the afternoon (treadmill and rower). The cardio has enabled me to get back into music, too, by which I mean actual music, and if you don't what I mean by that, you have no class. Sorry, but I'm a music snob who is highly intolerant of plebs.

Anyway. You have a body you are bless with, or stuck with, and the powers that be are pushing us to eat junk and sit in front of screens all day. One day you will get old, and you know how to be healthy in old age? Be healthy when you are young.

I agree, our modern life styles are very unhealthy. So it does take some extra effort to counterbalance that. But it usually doesn't take much, really. I mainly do swimming theses days because it's just very convenient for me at the moment, I live in the tropics and we've got a pool on the roof. So that seems like the obvious thing to do in terms of exercise. And like you, I went thru a bit of evolution myself. I started swimming to get rid of my back pain. And that I accomplished fairly easily, in less than a week. So my next goal was getting in shape. I started swimming for distance, counting laps and after a couple of months, I was already in pretty good in shape. So that was relatively easy as well. And as I was counting laps and kept track of my progress and distance increased steadily, I felt like I should improve my technique because in terms of speed I hit a bit of a wall. I spent more time than I wanted. I mainly did breaststroke at the time, which I thought was the least tiring of all the different styles (totally wrong, actually). I always liked to swim freestyle well, but it was just too exhausting for longer periods. So I started watching some youtube videos on technique and learned a fair bit and started seeing improvements but it was still tiresome and the fun factor went somewhat missing with all that swim theory in my head.

So my focus switched to efficiency instead of speed and correct technique. And it started to be fun again and also was less tiring. I actually improved speed and distance significantly while feeling less tired at the same time. Basically, what most teachers are doing is teaching a land mammal to swim. That's a mistake. That way you will fight the water. You will make a lot of waves and noise in the pool and waste most of your energy and will be dead tired after just a hundred meters. What I have discovered via learning by doing is that you have to totally merge with the water, you have to forget that you are a land mammal in water, you have to become a creature of the water and then everything will come into alignment automatically.

Now freestyle is actually the most energy efficient style for me. And recently I got to a point where I could do easily 2km straight, without getting tired at all. The problem though was that 2km equals more than 100 laps. And so while the swimming has become absolutely effortless, the lap counting started to get tiresome, spoiled the fun and kept me from truly getting into the flow right from the start. So last month I bought a waterproof watch that has a lap counter (max 99 laps, I discovered later, haha). And something amazing happened. Now not only is swimming fun from start to finish, but my speed and stamina have increased significantly. It usually took me almost an hour to do 2km, but now it's not much more than 40 min! That tells you something about how much energy is wasted with noisy brain activity alone!

Another thing I've noticed is the connection between breath and heart rate. I can't give you actual numbers, because I don't have a smart watch, but when I started learning to do flip turns, it started messing severely with my breathing rhythm and that started messing with my heart rate, and as they both went up, stamina went straight down. So recently, I keep that all very low and smooth and it really pays off. Usually I was getting slower till the end of each session, but now I am actually getting faster toward the end, because I am mostly in deep flow by that time. That's when I truly feel like a fish in water (like that whale video Robert posted) and it is just awesome! As you say, we have a physical body and most adults probably forgot how good it can feel to have that body, to move in that body, to feel that body, what joy it is to be fully focused in the physical! It reminds me of a sweet memory I have from the time when I was little, I remember running down a grassy hill - warm summer breeze, sun, the smell of grass, barefooted - just running, just moving my legs, and that alone was so awesome, I could have run forever like that, that feeling of being fully alive, here and now, and in a physical body - the best of all worlds! This also reminds me of what A-H used to tell people who were tired of being physical, "If you knew how much you wanted to be in these physical bodies, you wouldn't try to get out of them all the time!" So true! 

So yeah, my recommendation, in the end, alignment is the only thing that matters. Then everything else will take care of itself. It doesn't really matter what you do. Choose the sport or activity you enjoy most and which fits your life style and needs best and then just do it! But you should do something, the body is built that way, it requires movement to stay healthy. And don't look at what others are doing or compare yourself to others. What works for them is their business and what works for you is your business. Enjoy your here and now, accept where you are right now but also know that physical decline is not the natural way of things. Aging in the sense of maturing is natural. Aging in the sense of slow physical decline is not. There is no reason - other than bogus beliefs - why you cannot be as healthy and fit at 60 as you were at 30. So with all this focus on action and doing, never neglect the thinking and feeling aspect in of this. Recently, I came across a book that teaches 'ultra-efficient' freestyle, and that's basically the kind of freestyle I discovered by 'accident', by just following what feels best and most fun while swimming, and in that book they mention people as old as 90 learning freestyle and flip turns and steadily improving their lap times!

Point being, there's always a choice involved somewhere. Just because 99.99% can barely move at age 70 or 60 already, that doesn't have to be everyone's fate. There are choices and decisions involved along the way which will lead to different attitudes, which will lead to different actions and which will lead to different results. It all starts with a decision to be healthy or just to feel good no matter what. The rest will be a highly individual journey that no expert could accurately predict. You will try things that work and things that don't work and the things that didn't work will lead you to things that truly work. So, just enjoy the journey and keep pointed in the right direction and eventually you'll get there if you keep going.

[maxdprophet]

My main priority is regular, quality sleep. I try to eat right 80% of the time or so. Eating right for me means Mediterranian style -- quality proteins and veggies, berries. Alcohol and sweets on special occasions. I find that alcohol messes up my sleep so that's why I don't indulge much. Also, I find starchy foods help me sleep sounder so I'll have some rice, potatoes, or pasta with dinner sometimes. Also related to sleep is getting outside everyday, working up a sweat everyday, meditating daily. For exercise I play Ultimate frisbee 1-3 times per week, which also ticks off social interaction. 2-3 times a week I do some strength training. During Covid times it's been at home and so bodyweight training. As I get older I see the need for yoga, keeping my body stretched out. Also I have a deskjob so I need to counteract that. I'd also like to do some longer fasts. I'd like to get back into cycling as I live in an area with great backroads.

[lolly]

Such a brilliant essay on swimming - I'm astounded.

Sleep is an excellent point. That's something I would like to improve. I could fine tune the diet quite a bit, too. There will come a time for that. Right now I'm just getting around about the right calories with adequate protein.

It really sounds like a good, healthy life, Max.

I've just started cardio training, so it's not that great yet, but my run time is getting longer. Its only about 6 or 7 minutes right now. I could go longer with a push, but I start to feel my legs become a bit unstable (partly from the morning's strength training) and return to a brisk walking pace. I want to develop a very efficient stride - and don't want to practice poor form. It's like Reefs' swimming with syncing all the physiology.

I practice form on the rower too, like, getting the knees extended such that I can pull the handle in a straight line - not up and over my knees - and also, use the muscles in order by initiating the pull by retracting shoulders and following through with the arms. Very smooth and efficient - not hard and fast. I noticed this week that the pace is getting faster by itself without me consciously trying to go faster.

I have the heavy metal on as well, to drown out the pop-nonsense the gym plays which is apparently popular among the plebs. It's also stressful to hear other people running on the mills and jibber jabbering, and just the general level of seemingingly intentional chaotic noise.

At the moment I'm revisiting the entire Iron Maiden discography - like a case study of the band's evolution. I usually have a list I curated for working out, which is a bit more diverse, but I'm certainly inclined toward a heavier sound. I listen very deeply not just into the music, but into the production as well. I was surprised when I listened to Billy Eilish's 'Bad guy' that the song has an incredible depth of listening. When I first heard it I was like, groovy, but when I really listened, I realised WHY it's phenomenal.

I have also been enjoying Evanescence's cover of Fleetwood Mac's 'The Chain'. It is over-produced with lots of sound that doesn't add anything to the piece, but they also have superb sense of space. An incredible delivery, and a very worthy tribute indeed.

[Deleted]

May 8, 2022 22:18:40 GMT -5 Reefs said:

May 5, 2022 7:27:57 GMT -5 lolly said:

My journey was into extreme spirituality like long meditation retreats and such, then a lot of brain work at university, and finally just pure physical to the point where even my career became physical. It changed a bit now as I started researching the stock market during the lockdowns, which in australia were pretty extreme, and now I just buy shares and and train at the gym.

I have 2 areas of training at the mo, lifting heavy things as usual - and cardio. Weights in the morning. Cardio in the afternoon (treadmill and rower). The cardio has enabled me to get back into music, too, by which I mean actual music, and if you don't what I mean by that, you have no class. Sorry, but I'm a music snob who is highly intolerant of plebs.

Anyway. You have a body you are bless with, or stuck with, and the powers that be are pushing us to eat junk and sit in front of screens all day. One day you will get old, and you know how to be healthy in old age? Be healthy when you are young.

I agree, our modern life styles are very unhealthy. So it does take some extra effort to counterbalance that. But it usually doesn't take much, really. I mainly do swimming theses days because it's just very convenient for me at the moment, I live in the tropics and we've got a pool on the roof. So that seems like the obvious thing to do in terms of exercise. And like you, I went thru a bit of evolution myself. I started swimming to get rid of my back pain. And that I accomplished fairly easily, in less than a week. So my next goal was getting in shape. I started swimming for distance, counting laps and after a couple of months, I was already in pretty good in shape. So that was relatively easy as well. And as I was counting laps and kept track of my progress and distance increased steadily, I felt like I should improve my technique because in terms of speed I hit a bit of a wall. I spent more time than I wanted. I mainly did breaststroke at the time, which I thought was the least tiring of all the different styles (totally wrong, actually). I always liked to swim freestyle well, but it was just too exhausting for longer periods. So I started watching some youtube videos on technique and learned a fair bit and started seeing improvements but it was still tiresome and the fun factor went somewhat missing with all that swim theory in my head.

So my focus switched to efficiency instead of speed and correct technique. And it started to be fun again and also was less tiring. I actually improved speed and distance significantly while feeling less tired at the same time. Basically, what most teachers are doing is teaching a land mammal to swim. That's a mistake. That way you will fight the water. You will make a lot of waves and noise in the pool and waste most of your energy and will be dead tired after just a hundred meters. What I have discovered via learning by doing is that you have to totally merge with the water, you have to forget that you are a land mammal in water, you have to become a creature of the water and then everything will come into alignment automatically.

Now freestyle is actually the most energy efficient style for me. And recently I got to a point where I could do easily 2km straight, without getting tired at all. The problem though was that 2km equals more than 100 laps. And so while the swimming has become absolutely effortless, the lap counting started to get tiresome, spoiled the fun and kept me from truly getting into the flow right from the start. So last month I bought a waterproof watch that has a lap counter (max 99 laps, I discovered later, haha). And something amazing happened. Now not only is swimming fun from start to finish, but my speed and stamina have increased significantly. It usually took me almost an hour to do 2km, but now it's not much more than 40 min! That tells you something about how much energy is wasted with noisy brain activity alone!

Another thing I've noticed is the connection between breath and heart rate. I can't give you actual numbers, because I don't have a smart watch, but when I started learning to do flip turns, it started messing severely with my breathing rhythm and that started messing with my heart rate, and as they both went up, stamina went straight down. So recently, I keep that all very low and smooth and it really pays off. Usually I was getting slower till the end of each session, but now I am actually getting faster toward the end, because I am mostly in deep flow by that time. That's when I truly feel like a fish in water (like that whale video Robert posted) and it is just awesome! As you say, we have a physical body and most adults probably forgot how good it can feel to have that body, to move in that body, to feel that body, what joy it is to be fully focused in the physical! It reminds me of a sweet memory I have from the time when I was little, I remember running down a grassy hill - warm summer breeze, sun, the smell of grass, barefooted - just running, just moving my legs, and that alone was so awesome, I could have run forever like that, that feeling of being fully alive, here and now, and in a physical body - the best of all worlds! This also reminds me of what A-H used to tell people who were tired of being physical, "If you knew how much you wanted to be in these physical bodies, you wouldn't try to get out of them all the time!" So true! 

So yeah, my recommendation, in the end, alignment is the only thing that matters. Then everything else will take care of itself. It doesn't really matter what you do. Choose the sport or activity you enjoy most and which fits your life style and needs best and then just do it! But you should do something, the body is built that way, it requires movement to stay healthy. And don't look at what others are doing or compare yourself to others. What works for them is their business and what works for you is your business. Enjoy your here and now, accept where you are right now but also know that physical decline is not the natural way of things. Aging in the sense of maturing is natural. Aging in the sense of slow physical decline is not. There is no reason - other than bogus beliefs - why you cannot be as healthy and fit at 60 as you were at 30. So with all this focus on action and doing, never neglect the thinking and feeling aspect in of this. Recently, I came across a book that teaches 'ultra-efficient' freestyle, and that's basically the kind of freestyle I discovered by 'accident', by just following what feels best and most fun while swimming, and in that book they mention people as old as 90 learning freestyle and flip turns and steadily improving their lap times!

Point being, there's always a choice involved somewhere. Just because 99.99% can barely move at age 70 or 60 already, that doesn't have to be everyone's fate. There are choices and decisions involved along the way which will lead to different attitudes, which will lead to different actions and which will lead to different results. It all starts with a decision to be healthy or just to feel good no matter what. The rest will be a highly individual journey that no expert could accurately predict. You will try things that work and things that don't work and the things that didn't work will lead you to things that truly work. So, just enjoy the journey and keep pointed in the right direction and eventually you'll get there if you keep going.

I used to swim a lot. I stopped partly because I have worry about tissue under my eye, so I don't love goggles. But reading this makes me want to find a pool again; it's such a great form of exercise. I didn't love the effect on my skin from pool water either, but I eventually found some special soap that removes the chlorine chemicals, which stopped the dry skin needles feeling I was getting at night.

I'm curious if - when you talked about efficiency with crawl stroke - you mean the practice of pushing down your chest (lung buoyancy) into the water and finding that proper balance where your torso can roll on an axis without bobbing up and down too much. That was what I discovered that made it feel really good. You start to slice through the water. A typical beginner mistake in crawl stroke is lifting the head up too far to breath, which drives the hips down and slams on the brakes. There were a number of drills to help get the feel of this. "Catch up" drill is another one, since to slice through the water one arm needs to be stretched out front while the other pushes. Anyway this technique is great for long distance swimming. 

Also, good point about removing the mental effort of counting with a lap watch. I may try that if I get back in the pool.

[Reefs]

May 21, 2022 8:57:29 GMT -5 @robertc said:

I used to swim a lot. I stopped partly because I have worry about tissue under my eye, so I don't love goggles. But reading this makes me want to find a pool again; it's such a great form of exercise. I didn't love the effect on my skin from pool water either, but I eventually found some special soap that removes the chlorine chemicals, which stopped the dry skin needles feeling I was getting at night.

I'm curious if - when you talked about efficiency with crawl stroke - you mean the practice of pushing down your chest (lung buoyancy) into the water and finding that proper balance where your torso can roll on an axis without bobbing up and down too much. That was what I discovered that made it feel really good. You start to slice through the water. A typical beginner mistake in crawl stroke is lifting the head up too far to breath, which drives the hips down and slams on the brakes. There were a number of drills to help get the feel of this. "Catch up" drill is another one, since to slice through the water one arm needs to be stretched out front while the other pushes. Anyway this technique is great for long distance swimming. 

Also, good point about removing the mental effort of counting with a lap watch. I may try that if I get back in the pool.

I guess I'm lucky. The pool I use doesn't smell like chlorine. They seem to be using something else that is much softer on the skin and also has much less of a smell. If you have skin issues, you should try baking soda. Usually helps immediately. Also works with acne plagued teenagers, I've heard.

There are many kinds of goggles, you have to try different ones. I tried a lot myself until I found the right ones. What I usually do is take them off after 10 min for half a minute or so.

Yes, that’s basically it. But how you get there is a bit more complex. It’s called graceful freestyle which pretty much nails it. It looks very elegant and is extremely efficient. Here's a video, that could be me in the pool, looks identical to my own style:




Now, notice how the body is almost 100% underwater all the time. The neck is relaxed and perfectly straight all the time and you look straight down at the floor, except when you are breathing in, of course. You keep your arms very close to your body all the time, especially when your arm comes out of the water, as if you would swim in a narrow tube. Don't hold your arm in an angle away from your body when you move the arm back underwater. That will cost you a lot of energy and adds next to nothing in terms of speed. It may actually ruin your shoulder. Instead, hold it straight down and then draw it back. You’ll notice, because of the drag, that it’s difficult to move the hand in a straight line and so the most natural way will be to move it in a slightly S-shaped line. Which is perfectly fine. After all, in nature, straight lines are rare anyway.

And when your other arm enters the water again you roll your body with a bit of force and stretch out that arm forward at the same time and that little roll in combination with that long stretch will give you an extra push forward which costs you nothing in terms of energy but adds a lot of speed. The whole sequence of movements is a bit like a pendulum, actually. It’s very organic, nothing mechanical about it, like let’s say a paddle steamer that applies continuous force. That's counter-intuitive to nature's way. Instead, you will move 2-3 seconds, and then you will glide for at least 2-3 seconds. So there will be equal periods of exerting force and resting. And if you are really good at it and can really merge with the water, those gliding and resting periods can get a lot longer, but it will cost you in terms of speed.

Another point that is extremely important is that you use your legs only to stay perfectly horizontal, NOT to push you forward! Basically your arms and then inertia will do all the work, the legs will just do some micro adjustments now and then to stay perfectly horizontal, so mostly you don't use them. That will save you A LOT of energy. I think that's the main reason why you won't get tired with that kind of style. That also allows you to keep your heart and breathing rate extremely low and very rhythmically. And with that kind of natural rhythm you can swim for hours without getting tired. I did 3km today and when I got out of the pool I still felt like an energizer bunny. That’s how it should be. It’s really only about the pure joy of moving your body, or better said, of letting your body move freely, because when you mastered the necessary skills there will be a point when you get into flow and you’ll have the optimal experience. If you keep going, you may occasionally even enter deep flow, when you are truly at one with the water and feel you are in your element, literally like a fish in water.

So you need to get out of the pushing and applying force and effort mindset, trying to overcome resistance with force. Rather think in terms of pulling and gliding and inertia, trying to overcome resistance by streamlining and merging with your environment. Initially, when you stretch out your arm underwater, think of it like trying to reach for a rope that you can barely reach, stretch out your entire body as far as you can, legs as well, it will be almost like some kind of yoga stretching and should feel really good, and then, as if you would grab that rope, try to pull your body along that rope forward and then do the same again with the other arm. That way, most of the time you will be just gliding thru the water, and very rhythmically.

Here's another video with some basic instructions:



What you should also keep in mind is that different people have different body types which will float differently in the water. So in the end you have to find your individual, very unique style. The rule of thumb for me is, if I get out of the pool and feel tired or even have muscle pain, then I must have done something wrong. Usually they teach you the opposite.

So in the end, at least for me now, I can fully rely on muscle memory and swimming has become something very enjoyable, with a spiritual component when deep flow happens. The other aspects like staying healthy and getting in better and better shape are now a given and aren't even on my mind anymore. Now it's just about the joy of swimming, of moving the body, or as Zhuangzi said, the joy of the fish. And actually, you can have that with any activity, running or tennis or even washing the dishes. There's something magical about being able to do something well and effortlessly. The specific activity itself doesn't matter.

[Deleted]

May 21, 2022 13:19:38 GMT -5 Reefs said:

May 21, 2022 8:57:29 GMT -5 @robertc said:

I used to swim a lot. [...]
I'm curious if - when you talked about efficiency with crawl stroke - you mean the practice of pushing down your chest (lung buoyancy) into the water and finding that proper balance [...]

I guess I'm lucky. The pool I use doesn't smell like chlorine. They seem to be using something else that is much softer on the skin and also has much less of a smell. If you have skin issues, you should try baking soda. Usually helps immediately. Also works with acne plagued teenagers, I've heard.

There are many kinds of goggles, you have to try different ones. I tried a lot myself until I found the right ones. What I usually do is take them off after 10 min for half a minute or so.

Yes, that’s basically it. But how you get there is a bit more complex. It’s called graceful freestyle which pretty much nails it. It looks very elegant and is extremely efficient. Here's a video, that could be me in the pool, looks identical to my own style:

[...]

Nice. Great videos. Those drills look like the ones I found too.

I got into the sport as a teenager, so there was competition and self-esteem aspect then. It's different when you're adult, and years later I rediscovered some of that joy of movement you're talking about and got into swimming again. My technique then improved because you can find certain things when the ego isn't raging and sabotaging itself. 

You mentioned not feeling any muscle pain. I think that's true for a certain kind of very healthy workout, that's mainly aerobic. But I also sometimes still enjoy a challenge where I push the body a bit to see what it can do, or stimulate some muscle growth. In swimming that will push me anaerobic, so I'd get a lactic acid burn. I think that's okay, but one needs to know the difference between the good pain and bad pain. With the former you recover quickly, especially with good food (enough protein) and sleep. 

I never liked breaststroke because I don't like the lateral force against my knee joint. But backstroke and especially butterfly can be interesting too. Butterfly without flippers may require too much effort, but with flippers I found it can be fun. That or underwater dolphin kick. There's a drill that's like half-free half-fly - hands out in front streamlining, a few dolphin kicks, then one freestyle pull and breath to that side, then repeat on other side. Again with flippers it makes it easier to feel like an easy-flowin' fish.