What do you do for your physical health?

[lolly]

Jun 27, 2022 1:55:52 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Jun 27, 2022 0:18:24 GMT -5 lolly said:

Techique is king, and huge muscles, strength and power are not necessary for endurance sport, so you don't make that adaptation. Adding weights means extra recovery, so have you have to decide where your limited energy is best spent to maximise the desired adaptation. A distance swimmer is going to get most out of doing miles in the water and refinement of stroke. The muscles will adapt up to a point and then stay the same.

If you want more muscle, then forcing the body into hypertrophy is necessary. You have to lift heavy things, take it close to failure, and maximimise volume (sets x reps x weight = volume) you can realistically recover from  with the appropriate rep and set ranges. Progressive overload is increasing that volume incrementally over time by increasing number of total reps and/or the weight. You also need fuel because the body will not gain lean mass unless you take a calorie surplus with high protein. There are many people who hit the gym all the time but don't accrue lean mass because they don't get the calories and protein necessary. Without the nutrition it's like all the bricklayers came to work but someone forgot to order the bricks.

Right, I'm probably at that point already.

That's a good analogy.

I am wondering, Lolly, do you take body types into account?

Hard question. I don't do general 'body typing' like endomorph, ectomorph, mesomorph (that's not a real thing) and in the early stages of strength training I use very simple isolation drills, so everyone pretty much does the same thing, but as it gets more established people with differences physically and psychologically, as well as having different fitness goals, end up doing very different programs.

[Reefs]

Jun 27, 2022 14:53:13 GMT -5 lolly said:

Jun 27, 2022 1:55:52 GMT -5 Reefs said:

Right, I'm probably at that point already.

That's a good analogy.

I am wondering, Lolly, do you take body types into account?

Hard question. I don't do general 'body typing' like endomorph, ectomorph, mesomorph (that's not a real thing) and in the early stages of strength training I use very simple isolation drills, so everyone pretty much does the same thing, but as it gets more established people with differences physically and psychologically, as well as having different fitness goals, end up doing very different programs.

I agree, unless you are a fashion designer, the endomorph, mesomorph and ectomorph classifications don't make much sense and are not useful. What would, IMO, make some sense though is the classical temperament theory, which refers not only to personality types but also body types. The four classical temperaments describe not only a certain way of thinking, feeling and sensing, but actually a certain way of being in the world. So that's actually a whole package, from the spiritual right down to the physical level. And this theory used to be the backbone of ancient/traditional medicine. It goes back to the four elements (or five). They still use it today, especially in India and China. So this is definitely a real thing. Has been around for thousands of years. I'm pretty sure one can find out these types via muscle testing. The choleric (fire) types show quick and strong responses, the melancholic (earth) types show slow and strong responses, the sanguine (air) types show quick but weak responses and the phlegmatic (water) types show slow and weak responses. 

So if, all things being equal, I see someone going to the gym and not developing any muscles in time, I'd say that might be a phlegmatic body type, it usually just takes longer for them based on their metabolism and it also won't be that impressive. If I see someone going to the gym developing muscles in no time, I'd say that might be a choleric body type, it doesn't take much time for them based on their metabolism and it is also very impressive.

Which goes back to your point of giving individual training programs and individual goals. Not sure if you have seen these four types in your practice in some way. Pure types are probably extremely rare, usually you will get a mixture. But this kind of classification has been a real things for many centuries and it encompasses type specific life styles, diet, exercises, illnesses and remedies etc. 

[Reefs]

Re: the fruit-based diet topic, it is a common perspective in yoga. Here's a quote from the book Yogananda's guru Sri Yukteswar wrote in 1894, The Holy Science, about natural living...

SUTRAS 9–11

Moral courage is strengthened by observance of Yama (morality or self-control) and Niyama (religious rules).
Yama comprises noninjury to others, truthfulness, nonstealing, continence, and noncovetousness.
Niyama means purity of body and mind, contentment in all circumstances, and obedience (following the instructions of the guru).

Firmness of moral courage can be attained by the culture of Yama, the religious forbearances: abstention from cruelty, dishonesty, covetousness, unnatural living, and unnecessary possessions; and of Niyama, the religious observances: purity in body and mind—cleaning the body externally and internally from all foreign matters which, being fermented, create different sorts of diseases in the system, and clearing the mind from all prejudices and dogmas that make one narrow—contentment in all circumstances; and obedience to the holy precepts of the divine personages.

What is natural living? To understand what natural living is, it will be necessary to distinguish it from what is unnatural. Living depends upon the selection of (1) food, (2) dwelling, and (3) company. To live naturally, the lower animals can select these for themselves by the help of their instincts and the natural sentinels placed at the sensory entrances—the organs of sight, hearing, touch, smell, and taste. With men in general, however, these organs are so much perverted by unnatural living from very infancy that little reliance can be placed on their judgments. To understand, therefore, what our natural needs are, we ought to depend upon observation, experiment, and reason.

What is natural food for man? First, to select our natural food, our observation should be directed to the formation of the organs that aid in digestion and nutrition, the teeth and digestive canal; to the natural tendency of the organs of sense which guide animals to their food; and to the nourishment of the young.

Observation of teeth. By observation of the teeth we find that in carnivorous animals the incisors are little developed, but the canines are of striking length, smooth and pointed, to seize the prey. The molars also are pointed; these points, however, do not meet, but fit closely side by side to separate the muscular fibers.

In the herbivorous animals the incisors are strikingly developed, the canines are stunted (though occasionally developed into weapons, as in elephants), the molars are broad-topped and furnished with enamel on the sides only.

In the frugivorous all the teeth are of nearly the same height; the canines are little projected, conical, and blunt (obviously not intended for seizing prey but for exertion of strength). The molars are broad-topped and furnished at the top with enamel folds to prevent waste caused by their side motion, but not pointed for chewing flesh.

In omnivorous animals such as bears, on the other hand, the incisors resemble those of the herbivorous, the canines are like those of the carnivorous, and the molars are both pointed and broad-topped to serve a twofold purpose.

Now if we observe the formation of the teeth in man we find that they do not resemble those of the carnivorous, neither do they resemble the teeth of the herbivorous or the omnivorous. They do resemble, exactly, those of the frugivorous animals. The reasonable inference, therefore, is that man is a frugivorous or fruit-eating animal.

Observation of the digestive canal. By observation of the digestive canal we find that the bowels of carnivorous animals are 3 to 5 times the length of their body, measuring from the mouth to the anus; and their stomach is almost spherical. The bowels of the herbivorous are 20 to 28 times the length of their body and their stomach is more extended and of compound build. But the bowels of the frugivorous animals are 10 to 12 times the length of their body; their stomach is somewhat broader than that of the carnivorous and has a continuation in the duodenum serving the purpose of a second stomach.

This is exactly the formation we find in human beings, though Anatomy says that the human bowels are 3 to 5 times the length of man’s body—making a mistake by measuring the body from the crown to the soles, instead of from mouth to anus. Thus we can again draw the inference that man is, in all probability, a frugivorous animal.

Observation of organs of sense. By observation of the natural tendency of the organs of sense—the guideposts for determining what is nutritious—by which all animals are directed to their food, we find that when the carnivorous animal finds prey, he becomes so much delighted that his eyes begin to sparkle; he boldly seizes the prey and greedily laps the jetting blood. On the contrary, the herbivorous animal refuses even his natural food, leaving it untouched, if it is sprinkled with a little blood. His senses of smell and sight lead him to select grasses and other herbs for his food, which he tastes with delight. Similarly with the frugivorous animals, we find that their senses always direct them to fruits of the trees and field.

In men of all races we find that their senses of smell, sound, and sight never lead them to slaughter animals; on the contrary they cannot bear even the sight of such killings. Slaughterhouses are always recommended to be removed far from the towns; men often pass strict ordinances forbidding the uncovered transportation of flesh meats. Can flesh then be considered the natural food of man, when both his eyes and his nose are so much against it, unless deceived by flavors of spices, salt, and sugar? On the other hand, how delightful do we find the fragrance of fruits, the very sight of which often makes the mouth water! It may also be noticed that various grains and roots possess an agreeable odor and taste, though faint, even when unprepared. Thus again, we are led to infer from these observations that man was intended to be a frugivorous animal.

Observation of the nourishment of the young. By observation of the nourishment of the young we find that milk is undoubtedly the food of the newborn babe. Abundant milk is not supplied in the breasts of the mother if she does not take fruits, grains, and vegetables as her natural food.

Cause of disease. Hence from these observations the only conclusion that can reasonably be drawn is that various grains, fruits, roots, and—for beverage—milk, and pure water openly exposed to air and sun are decidedly the best natural food for man. These, being congenial to the system when taken according to the power of the digestive organs, well chewed and mixed with saliva, are always easily assimilated.

Other foods are unnatural to man and being uncongenial to the system are necessarily foreign to it; when they enter the stomach, they are not properly assimilated. Mixed with the blood, they accumulate in the excretory and other organs not properly adapted to them. When they cannot find their way out, they subside in tissue crevices by the law of gravitation; and, being fermented, produce diseases, mental and physical, and ultimately lead to premature death.

Children’s development. Experiment also proves that the nonirritant diet natural to the vegetarian is, almost without exception, admirably suited to children’s development, both physical and mental. Their minds, understanding, will, the principal faculties, temper, and general disposition are also properly developed.

Natural living calms passions. We find that when extraordinary means such as excessive fasting, scourging, or monastic confinement are resorted to for the purpose of suppressing the sexual passions, these means seldom produce the desired effect. Experiment shows, however, that man can easily overcome these passions, the archenemy of morality, by natural living on a nonirritant diet, above referred to; thereby men gain a calmness of mind which every psychologist knows is the most favourable to mental activity and to a clear understanding, as well as to a judicial way of thinking.

Sexual desire. Something more should be said here about the natural instinct of propagation, which is, next to the instinct of self-preservation, the strongest in the animal body. Sexual desire, like all other desires, has a normal and an abnormal or diseased state, the latter resulting only from the foreign matter accumulated by unnatural living as mentioned above. In the sexual desire everyone has a very accurate thermometer to indicate the condition of his health. This desire is forced from its normal state by the irritation of nerves that results from the pressure of foreign matter accumulated in the system, which pressure is exerted on the sexual apparatus and is at first manifested by an increased sexual desire followed by a gradual decrease of potency.

This sexual desire in its normal state makes man quite free from all disturbing lusts, and operates on the organism (awaking a wish for appeasement) only infrequently. Here again experiment shows that this desire, like all other desires, is always normal in individuals who lead a natural life as mentioned.

The root of the tree of life. The sexual organ—the junction of important nerve extremities, particularly of the sympathetic and spinal nerves (the principal nerves of the abdomen) which, through their connection with the brain, are capable of enlivening the whole system—is in a sense the root of the tree of life. Man well-instructed in the proper use of sex can keep his body and mind in proper health and can live a pleasant life throughout.

The practical principles of sexual health are not taught because the public regards the subject as unclean and indecent. Thus blinded, mankind presumes to clothe Nature in a veil because she seems to them impure, forgetting that she is always clean and that everything impure and improper lies in man’s ideas, and not in Nature herself. It is clear therefore that man, not knowing the truth about the dangers of misuse of the sexual power, and being compelled to wrong practices by the nervous irritation resulting from unnatural living, suffers troublesome diseases in life and ultimately becomes a victim of premature death.

Dwelling place of man. Secondly, about our dwelling place. We can easily understand, when we feel displeasure on entering a crowded room after breathing fresh air on a mountaintop or in an expanse of field or garden, that the atmosphere of the town or any crowded place is quite an unnatural dwelling place. The fresh atmosphere of the mountaintop, or of the field or garden, or of a dry place under trees covering a large plot of land and freely ventilated with fresh air is the proper dwelling place for man according to Nature.

The company we should keep. And thirdly, as to the company we should keep. Here also, if we listen to the dictates of our conscience and consult our natural liking, we will at once find that we favour those persons whose magnetism affects us harmoniously, who cool our system, internally invigorate our vitality, develop our natural love, and thus relieve us of our miseries and administer peace to us. This is to say, we should be in the company of the Sat or Saviour and should avoid that of the Asat, as described before. By keeping the company of Sat (the Saviour) we are enabled to enjoy perfect health, physical and mental, and our life is prolonged. If on the other hand we disobey the warning of Mother Nature, without listening to the dictates of our pure conscience, and keep the company of whatever has been designated as Asat, an opposite effect is produced and our health is impaired and our life shortened.

Necessity of natural living and purity. Thus natural living is helpful for the practice of Yama, the ascetic forbearances as explained earlier. Purity of mind and body being equally important in the practice of Niyama, the ascetic observances already explained, every attempt should be made to attain that purity.


Sri Yukteswar, The Holy Science , Chapter 3

[lolly]

It makes no sense to talk about a 'natural human diet'. In a place that is temperate and has adequate rainfall the calories available for the least energy expenditure will mostly come from plants, and due to that relatively abundant environmental calorie balance, populations will be denser and more settled, but in island communities, polar communities, communities that live at high elevations and desert dwelling communities, calories may be more sparce, primarily be available from animals, and peoples less settled (more migratory) as they deplete calories in one area and move on to the next.

We tend to find that peoples that have the best longevity consume a lot of veges and a bit of animal produce, like the Okinawans who do mostly veges and some seafood, or some Mediterranean villagers who do a lot of veges with some meat and animal produce. However, there some mountain folk who tend to live who consume a lot more animal produce. Indeed there are no people who 'naturally' only eat fruit, and all the great apes are actually omnivores.

The 'natural diet' argument is perhaps something that applies to the calories available to people within a geographic area, but to generalise that all human beings have 'a natural diet' is a fallacy that if actually applied in the real-world would amount to the genocide of many peoples. This requires so little critical thinking I feel like I merely state the obvious.

[lolly]

The trainers who do programs based on 'body type' typically buy the endomorph/ectomorph nonsense, and it's a scam.

In the profession we have some indicators, like a if someone has huge diameter wrists and ankles we see that they have a thicker than usual bone structure and are probably as strong AF. Smaller bone structure, like really thin ankles with shorter highly set calf muscles is a characteristic of a distance runner, not a natural powerlifter. As a wide generalisation, people with bigger/broader skeletons have more real estate for muscle whereas a slighter skeleton can't accrue so much lean mass, but would be much better suited to say, rock climbing for example.

Hence, we don't have generalised categories or body-types, but it's kind of like horses. A good eye can often discern a winner (genetic outlier), but not always. This mysterious thing called 'talent' also comes into it.

The everyday person isn't going competitive or becoming a champion or anything like that, so it just comes down to doing the activities you like to do, making sure it's reasonably strenuous - and letting the consistency pay off.

[Reefs]

[lolly]

Yes. Posture is tensegrity.

[Deleted]

 

[zazeniac]

[andrew]

The title is a little 'clickbaity' but it's mostly Wim Hof talking about our internal power and capacity to create a healthy state for ourselves.

I liked it. With that said, I believe that poor health can be necessary 'soul' exploration. Sometimes the lessons to be learned aren't about creating health, it might be...for example... about self-kindness, forgiveness and compassion. And death is part of Life, of course.

[lolly]

I'd say don't worry about Hoff and other such heath hacks, because without basic nutrition and activity it's not effective, and with the nutrition and activity, it's not necessary. Hoff is a very active guy who watches his diet, and that's why he's stayed very healthy. It's just Occam's Razor.

Rhetoric about 'the power with us' etc. is nebulous, but the appeal to something paranormal is enticing. Hence it's coupled with miracle stories, but with that level of exuberance I dare say he tends to embellish his stories. 

I have worked with people in a fitness capacity and seen some inexplicable recoveries. One guy stopped his diabetes and blood meds completely in an inexplicably short time, and his doctor was bemused by his test results, but that was exceptional rather the norm. It's not uncommon for people to reduce or go off meds, but it typically takes a lot longer and correlates with reduced body fat percentage. Generally speaking nearly everyone sees significant benefits, but on the other hand, a couple of my clients got worse, and then they died. I know the same thing happens to Hoff because there are no 100% success rates anywhere, and unusually remarkable healings are rare in all modalities. Indeed, the majority of inexplicable 'miracle cures' occur under conventional medical care, but in reality, regardless of the healing strategy, these sorts of outcomes are statisically insignificant. 

The most successful approach to health, the only one that actually works, is and always will be a combination of exercise and nutrition. Indeed, any research study will show that fitness coaching has the most positive health outcomes. Nearly everyone benefits, most benefit significantly, and those who don't are about as rare as those who have a 'miracle cure'. This is because the cancers, diabetes, blood pressure, heart problems etc are highly associated with poor muscle development and/or a high body fat percentage. If you aren't addressing that, the likelihood of anything else having a significant effect is pretty much nullified.

Hoff isn't honest and straight forward in this way. He doesn't disclose his outcomes, but draws on  (embellished) positive stories, omits the average cases and doesn't mention the cases where it didn't work. The truth is, his good health is primarily due to his active lifestyle and good nutrition, and he knows it.

There's bound to be some effect from hyperventilating and holding your breath coupled with dunks in ice water. It won't do any harm unless you faint and fall over or something, but if you want improved health, activity and nutrition is the ticket. I agree that's gonna be a hard sell compared to what Hoff is selling, but the guaranteed miracle Hoff sells is bulldust, whereas we all already know, what I'm selling will work for pretty much everyone.

[Deleted]

Aug 4, 2023 4:24:03 GMT -5 lolly said:

There's bound to be some effect from hyperventilating and holding your breath coupled with dunks in ice water.

Hydrotherapy has a long history. There are scientific studies showing how being shocked with cold water can kickstart the immune system into fighting various pathogens.

[Deleted]

Jul 5, 2022 2:52:43 GMT -5 lolly said:

It makes no sense to talk about a 'natural human diet'. In a place that is temperate and has adequate rainfall the calories available for the least energy expenditure will mostly come from plants, and due to that relatively abundant environmental calorie balance, populations will be denser and more settled, but in island communities, polar communities, communities that live at high elevations and desert dwelling communities, calories may be more sparce, primarily be available from animals, and peoples less settled (more migratory) as they deplete calories in one area and move on to the next.

We tend to find that peoples that have the best longevity consume a lot of veges and a bit of animal produce, like the Okinawans who do mostly veges and some seafood, or some Mediterranean villagers who do a lot of veges with some meat and animal produce. However, there some mountain folk who tend to live who consume a lot more animal produce. Indeed there are no people who 'naturally' only eat fruit, and all the great apes are actually omnivores.

The 'natural diet' argument is perhaps something that applies to the calories available to people within a geographic area, but to generalise that all human beings have 'a natural diet' is a fallacy that if actually applied in the real-world would amount to the genocide of many peoples. This requires so little critical thinking I feel like I merely state the obvious.

A recent study suggests that cheese has a protective effect on the heart. Seriously could you wish for better news than that? 😃

[lolly]

Aug 4, 2023 6:37:42 GMT -5 @satch said:

Aug 4, 2023 4:24:03 GMT -5 lolly said:

There's bound to be some effect from hyperventilating and holding your breath coupled with dunks in ice water.

Hydrotherapy has a long history. There are scientific studies showing how being shocked with cold water can kickstart the immune system into fighting various pathogens.

I don't know about that research, but if it's something to do with icy water, I'd imagine it measures short elevation spikes which make no difference to real world disease prevention; not long lasting elevations in the immune system. That would be my guess, but I've never seen the research.

If you want something that really works, good nutrition and moderately strenuous activity is the most effective by a country mile. People with high body fat percentages have suppressed immune responses compared with lean people on average, so fat loss is the  best way to improve resilience against illness (but not muscle loss). Hof does incredible things and stays in optimal health because he eats well and trains. He adds special breathing and ice baths, and that might account for 1% or something, or it might detract by 1%. How could we know when nutrition and training such a biggie it makes 'the method' statistically insignificant?

For the immune system, moderate training like 45 min to an hour a few times a week is the most effective. Hard training comes with fatigue and stress that suppresses immunity. Coaching such athletes requires attention to fatigue management. Add good nutrition and regular sleep to high activity levels and Bob's your uncle. I'm preaching to the choir who already knows the song.  Furthermore, positive health effects compound over time as you become increasingly fitter. Special breathing and icy water probably has an additional benefit, so I'm not against it, but it's comparably insignificant.

I think perhaps some yoga or martial arts breathing technique could be even better, and certainly do not discourage breathing exercises, but eating right, sleeping well and doing some strenuous things is the ticket, no doubt.