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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 19, 2021 17:27:27 GMT -5
I think what a lot of people might not realize it that for many Christians their world functions quite well because of A-H/LOA operating, which they attribute to God operating in their life. This begs the question: would you rather be happy, or believe you know the truth?Happiness is cheap. I'd rather know the truth (a 3rd option).
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Post by inavalan on Sept 19, 2021 18:19:03 GMT -5
This begs the question: would you rather be happy, or believe you know the truth?Happiness is cheap. ... Interesting. I never heard that, but I see that there is at least a quote as such. What does it mean to you?I am a little intrigued ... Maybe it is part of the idea that suffering is necessary for growth ... which I contest. To me, definitely happiness is good, but as always it might depend on what the word, the concept means to you. I thought that you said that you can't trust what you experience, because of the filtering of your perceptions. That's why I prefer to use the word "believe" instead of "know".
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 19, 2021 19:38:52 GMT -5
Interesting. I never heard that, but I see that there is at least a quote as such. What does it mean to you?I am a little intrigued ... Maybe it is part of the idea that suffering is necessary for growth ... which I contest. To me, definitely happiness is good, but as always it might depend on what the word, the concept means to you. I thought that you said that you can't trust what you experience, because of the filtering of your perceptions. That's why I prefer to use the word "believe" instead of "know". Truth is worth any price, including happiness. There is a way to get past our own subjectivity, attention and awareness is the only way. In the end ~one~ gets paid back for anything given up in the process. The subjective/small s self is given up in the process. Suffering is sacrificed in the process.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2021 21:30:43 GMT -5
Interesting. I never heard that, but I see that there is at least a quote as such. What does it mean to you?I am a little intrigued ... Maybe it is part of the idea that suffering is necessary for growth ... which I contest. To me, definitely happiness is good, but as always it might depend on what the word, the concept means to you. I thought that you said that you can't trust what you experience, because of the filtering of your perceptions. That's why I prefer to use the word "believe" instead of "know". Truth is worth any price, including happiness. There is a way to get past our own subjectivity, attention and awareness is the only way. In the end ~one~ gets paid back for anything given up in the process. The subjective/small s self is given up in the process. Suffering is sacrificed in the process. Insightful inacaravan… Tossed to and fro one be stripped of the superfluousness armouring within both hemispheres revealing Joy as ones birthright: Happiness over rated.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2021 21:36:39 GMT -5
Great stuff zd, it's always interesting to read about these interactions you've had. No way I'll ever come close to meeting a fraction of the folks you have at my rate. The discussions I've had spanned many decades - Christian family, friends and lovers. Probably about a dozen at most - prior to taking Sue to get baptized via RCIA. I'd inevitably hit them with the some fairly standard secular humanist objections: "why is God a man?", "how can a loving God be angry and vengeful?", ..etc. Sometimes their answers were open-minded and contemplative on this issue of personification, and some of the most radical views I've encountered were from Father Joe. And he slips them into Sunday homilies. I think it's easy to see the misconceptions of the devotionalists from the outside looking in, but for folks in that position, it's what's happening for them in prayer that is the most significant aspect of their practice and faith, rather than what they believe - despite what they might tell you. I think what a lot of people might not realize it that for many Christians their world functions quite well because of A-H/LOA operating, which they attribute to God operating in their life. Ignorance is bliss?
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Post by inavalan on Sept 19, 2021 22:10:57 GMT -5
I think what a lot of people might not realize it that for many Christians their world functions quite well because of A-H/LOA operating, which they attribute to God operating in their life. Ignorance is bliss? You can turn that around ... Bliss is ignorance ... I think that quite a number of accepted "facts" and "truths", should be looked at the opposite way. Take as reference the other end.
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Post by inavalan on Sept 19, 2021 22:12:33 GMT -5
Truth is worth any price, including happiness. There is a way to get past our own subjectivity, attention and awareness is the only way. In the end ~one~ gets paid back for anything given up in the process. The subjective/small s self is given up in the process. Suffering is sacrificed in the process. Insightful inacaravan… Tossed to and fro one be stripped of the superfluousness armouring within both hemispheres revealing Joy as ones birthright: Happiness over rated. I don't appreciate that
I noticed that you and others have difficulties with spelling. For screen-names use the " Insert User Link" feature: inavalan
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2021 0:21:27 GMT -5
Insightful inacaravan… Tossed to and fro one be stripped of the superfluousness armouring within both hemispheres revealing Joy as ones birthright: Happiness over rated. I don't appreciate that
I noticed that you and others have difficulties with spelling. For screen-names use the " Insert User Link" feature: inavalanView AttachmentSorry to rearrange your branding of self. Won’t do that again. Peace
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Post by laughter on Sept 20, 2021 6:21:23 GMT -5
If you're invincible you cannot be defeated, you cannot lose, that's the meaning of it. It of course implies the opposite, that if you're not invincible that you can be vanquished. Invincibility has no meaning free of the context of conflict. Okay, the dualistic feeling states argument. Fair enough. But what I am actually pointing to is total alignment, which isn't a dualistic feeling state. But if I had to explain it to someone else who doesn't know what total alignment is, the only option would be describing it with such words you find on the top half of the emotional scale. ok
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Post by laughter on Sept 20, 2021 6:50:25 GMT -5
Great stuff zd, it's always interesting to read about these interactions you've had. No way I'll ever come close to meeting a fraction of the folks you have at my rate. The discussions I've had spanned many decades - Christian family, friends and lovers. Probably about a dozen at most - prior to taking Sue to get baptized via RCIA. I'd inevitably hit them with the some fairly standard secular humanist objections: "why is God a man?", "how can a loving God be angry and vengeful?", ..etc. Sometimes their answers were open-minded and contemplative on this issue of personification, and some of the most radical views I've encountered were from Father Joe. And he slips them into Sunday homilies. I think it's easy to see the misconceptions of the devotionalists from the outside looking in, but for folks in that position, it's what's happening for them in prayer that is the most significant aspect of their practice and faith, rather than what they believe - despite what they might tell you. I think what a lot of people might not realize it that for many Christians their world functions quite well because of A-H/LOA operating, which they attribute to God operating in their life. Same with what can be a level of selfless optimization of a suburban couple (an idealized level, anyway), working long hours and devoting the rest to their offspring and extended family, losing themselves and their personal ambitions in the doing of life, regardless of any spiritual belief or lack thereof.
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Post by laughter on Sept 20, 2021 6:56:15 GMT -5
Interesting. I never heard that, but I see that there is at least a quote as such. What does it mean to you?I am a little intrigued ... Maybe it is part of the idea that suffering is necessary for growth ... which I contest. To me, definitely happiness is good, but as always it might depend on what the word, the concept means to you. I thought that you said that you can't trust what you experience, because of the filtering of your perceptions. That's why I prefer to use the word "believe" instead of "know". Not necessary, no, but it can certainly spin out that way.
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Post by laughter on Sept 20, 2021 6:57:03 GMT -5
Interesting. I never heard that, but I see that there is at least a quote as such. What does it mean to you?I am a little intrigued ... Maybe it is part of the idea that suffering is necessary for growth ... which I contest. To me, definitely happiness is good, but as always it might depend on what the word, the concept means to you. I thought that you said that you can't trust what you experience, because of the filtering of your perceptions. That's why I prefer to use the word "believe" instead of "know". Truth is worth any price, including happiness. There is a way to get past our own subjectivity, attention and awareness is the only way. In the end ~one~ gets paid back for anything given up in the process. The subjective/small s self is given up in the process. Suffering is sacrificed in the process. It doesn't have to be painful.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2021 7:12:32 GMT -5
I don't appreciate that
I noticed that you and others have difficulties with spelling. For screen-names use the " Insert User Link" feature: inavalan Sorry to rearrange your branding of self. Won’t do that again. Peace Walleye, Inavalov speaks with two voices. Why heed #1 when #2 always asks for conflict. He likes it, though maybe unconsciously. Sincerely, Sir Robin III, brought forth from Camalots.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2021 21:00:39 GMT -5
Sorry to rearrange your branding of self. Won’t do that again. Peace Walleye, Inavalov speaks with two voices. Why heed #1 when #2 always asks for conflict. He likes it, though maybe unconsciously. Sincerely, Sir Robin III, brought forth from Camalots. My guess Inahurry is a survivor from one of the many Indian massacre's
having seen the incoming Whities obliterating men woman an children
when on a roll, crapitalism having sailed into America. Spearingly yours dearone.
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Post by inavalan on Sept 20, 2021 21:15:28 GMT -5
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