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Post by siftingtothetruth on Aug 11, 2022 21:42:14 GMT -5
The object is not the one that awakens. The true subject is never within a trance. The idea of a dream is a misconception; to awaken means to recognize that one was never actually asleep. The bubble of delusion is burst by recognizing that the one who believed they were caught within the bubble was non-existent; they were were a thought OF such a one. So there was no bubble, no delusion, and no bursting, in truth. From a practical viewpoint, such an explanation, even if valid, does not seem helpful. I wasn’t answering you from a practical viewpoint because you didn't seem to be identifying yourself as a seeker seeking my advice. Is that how you see yourself?
If you read my books or articles or watch my YouTube videos, I advocate for seekers the continuous, vigilant practice of self-inquiry and/or surrender. I also mention it, albeit much more briefly, in the commentary to these verses, which are more in the nature of pointers and less in the nature of practical suggestions to seekers. E.g. in the commentary to verse 10: "And if we chase that I with sufficient intention, attention, and concentration, we will eventually slow the illusion-promoting dance of desire and thought long enough to see through it." |
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Post by unseekingseeker on Aug 11, 2022 22:40:28 GMT -5
@ siftingtothetruth ~ no, I’ve not seen your you tube videos or read your books.
I was looking at your post in isolation ~ indeed, silence provides the insights we need. We need not discuss of course, that’s always optional.
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Post by siftingtothetruth on Sept 17, 2022 9:09:32 GMT -5
Continued from Verse Thirty-Eight39. ONLY SO LONG AS ONE CONSIDERS ONESELF BOUND, DO THOUGHTS OF BONDAGE AND LIBERATION CONTINUE. WHEN ONE ENQUIRES WHO IS BOUND THE SELF IS REALIZED, ETERNALLY ATTAINED, AND ETERNALLY FREE. WHEN THOUGHT OF BONDAGE COMES TO AN END, CAN THOUGHT OF LIBERATION SURVIVE? Commentary: The idea of bondage or ignorance is itself based in the egoic idea that there you are a person, a body and a mind. It is the one who believes that they are the body and mind that seeks freedom. Yet when you engage in self-inquiry, this one who believes that they are the body-mind is itself seen not to exist. What you actually are is not the body and mind, and not the one who believed they were the body and the mind, therefore you are not the one who wanted liberation. You did not really want liberation because liberation was already yours. You did not need liberation because you were never imprisoned to begin with. Ignorance is itself, and always has been, a misconception. The idea of bondage is itself a product of dividing the world into “I” and “not-I” and the consequent identification with the I. The idea of liberation is dependent on the idea of bondage. Indeed, language itself, all concepts, and all meanings are only relevant in the context of the egoic identification. Beyond that, they so lose meaning that they cannot even be said to be meaningless; even that would be too much. Realization is the recognition that the structure of division and language is itself mute, is itself merely like strokes or gashes of color on a painting, rather than meaningful in itself. And so bondage and realization are also only abstractions, shapes in clouds as seen by a child — not actually existent. The end result of realization will be to recognize that there was never any ignorance, and therefore never any solution to it. Realization itself is a mere concept that is destroyed along with the concept of bondage. They annihilate each other like matter and anti-matter. Realization is a ladder the seeker climbs and then tosses away once at the top. Even as concepts, truly, ignorance and realization didn’t exist; they were misconceptions, and even the idea that they were misconceptions is a misconception, and that is a misconception too, all the way down. At any time, see all the forty verses posts that I have published so far here. |
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Post by siftingtothetruth on Dec 8, 2022 13:23:45 GMT -5
Continued from Verse Thirty-Nine40. IF IT IS SAID, THAT LIBERATION IS OF THREE KINDS, WITH FORM OR WITHOUT FORM OR WITH AND WITHOUT FORM, THEN LET ME TELL YOU THAT THE EXTINCTION OF THREE FORMS OF LIBERATION IS THE ONLY TRUE LIBERATION. Commentary: Some say liberation occurs to the mind. Some say it occurs to one beyond the mind. Some say it is something that occurs to the body and the mind while alive, but then dissolves into something infinite at the death of the body and the mind. These are all positions taken from a conceptual, and therefore egoic, stance. The kind of liberation that is subject to that kind of debate is an egoic liberation still. The thought of liberation is the last egoic thought. It, and therefore all the forms of it that could possibly exist, have to go — only in the beyond-concepts is there true Liberation. Even formless liberation is a concept, because it is defined as a certain kind of liberation as opposed to another kind. Anything which has an opposite is a concept. The true Liberation is no Liberation at all, because it has no opposite. It cannot be described as this or that, because it is not actually a phenomenon, not a thing, not a process of any kind. It merely an indirect description of the Truth that always has been the case, which is that the ignorant idea that there is someone who needs to be liberated, someone who suffers, someone who is limited is and always has been only a playful fiction, and not even that. At any time, see all the forty verses posts that I have published so far here. |
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Post by inavalan on Dec 9, 2022 3:22:01 GMT -5
Continued from Verse Thirty-Nine40. IF IT IS SAID, THAT LIBERATION IS OF THREE KINDS, WITH FORM OR WITHOUT FORM OR WITH AND WITHOUT FORM, THEN LET ME TELL YOU THAT THE EXTINCTION OF THREE FORMS OF LIBERATION IS THE ONLY TRUE LIBERATION.Commentary: Some say liberation occurs to the mind. Some say it occurs to one beyond the mind. Some say it is something that occurs to the body and the mind while alive, but then dissolves into something infinite at the death of the body and the mind. These are all positions taken from a conceptual, and therefore egoic, stance. The kind of liberation that is subject to that kind of debate is an egoic liberation still. The thought of liberation is the last egoic thought. It, and therefore all the forms of it that could possibly exist, have to go — only in the beyond-concepts is there true Liberation. Even formless liberation is a concept, because it is defined as a certain kind of liberation as opposed to another kind. Anything which has an opposite is a concept. The true Liberation is no Liberation at all, because it has no opposite. It cannot be described as this or that, because it is not actually a phenomenon, not a thing, not a process of any kind. It merely an indirect description of the Truth that always has been the case, which is that the ignorant idea that there is someone who needs to be liberated, someone who suffers, someone who is limited is and always has been only a playful fiction, and not even that. At any time, see all the forty verses posts that I have published so far here. The idea of liberation in itself is from an egoic stance. I think that Ramana alluded to something that isn't an actual liberation, but something seen from the other side of the transformation than the ego's side. I believe it is like a sudden lucidity, a sudden awakening from trance, like becoming lucid in your dream. |
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Post by Reefs on Dec 9, 2022 9:09:18 GMT -5
Continued from Verse Thirty-Nine40. IF IT IS SAID, THAT LIBERATION IS OF THREE KINDS, WITH FORM OR WITHOUT FORM OR WITH AND WITHOUT FORM, THEN LET ME TELL YOU THAT THE EXTINCTION OF THREE FORMS OF LIBERATION IS THE ONLY TRUE LIBERATION.Commentary: Some say liberation occurs to the mind. Some say it occurs to one beyond the mind. Some say it is something that occurs to the body and the mind while alive, but then dissolves into something infinite at the death of the body and the mind. These are all positions taken from a conceptual, and therefore egoic, stance. The kind of liberation that is subject to that kind of debate is an egoic liberation still. The thought of liberation is the last egoic thought. It, and therefore all the forms of it that could possibly exist, have to go — only in the beyond-concepts is there true Liberation. Even formless liberation is a concept, because it is defined as a certain kind of liberation as opposed to another kind. Anything which has an opposite is a concept. The true Liberation is no Liberation at all, because it has no opposite. It cannot be described as this or that, because it is not actually a phenomenon, not a thing, not a process of any kind. It merely an indirect description of the Truth that always has been the case, which is that the ignorant idea that there is someone who needs to be liberated, someone who suffers, someone who is limited is and always has been only a playful fiction, and not even that. At any time, see all the forty verses posts that I have published so far here. The idea of liberation in itself is from an egoic stance. I think that Ramana alluded to something that isn't an actual liberation, but something seen from the other side of the transformation than the ego's side. I believe it is like a sudden lucidity, a sudden awakening from trance, like becoming lucid in your dream. Yes, it's the impersonal perspective. That statement is only true and can only be understood from the impersonal perspective. If accepted as true from the personal perspective it will most likely lead to spiritual bypassing and may even end in some sort of god complex. The problem with the lucid dreaming analogy is that it is always only the personal perspective. The state of dreaming, the state of lucid dreaming and the state of fully awakening from the dream are all the personal perspective in the end. So other than a change of scenery or content, nothing fundamental has changed in terms of perspective. SR is the opposite. SR is a fundamental change in perspective, independently of scenery or content or mental skill level. |
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Post by siftingtothetruth on May 5, 2023 9:04:45 GMT -5
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