|
|
Post by laughter on Jan 18, 2022 7:11:48 GMT -5
Walking alone yesterday on streets around town. Just for exercise. Sometimes, the intention appears to clear the mind, to notice anything short of total mental silence. In that silence, attention is on the senses, as the way that ZD describes with ATA. Sometimes, as the 'maniac alluded to recently, I'll notice something new in familiar surroundings, something that was always there, but that I'd never noticed before. That actually happened this time, but it was prosaic. Nothing so cool as the luna-seeing. Perhaps more interesting than what I saw with my eyes in that moment, sometimes, patterns of mood, swirls of pre-thought become clear, and the dynamic of this mind comes into ever finer focus. So, a discovery of something new in familiar surroundings, something that was always there, but that I'd never noticed before .. but .. internal, not .. external. I'll often use a corner as a form of a dharma bell (another of ZD's ideas - not the corner, specifically, but an event, generally, as a "dharma bell"). In this way reaching the end of a block is always an opportunity to exit an inadvertently boarded train of thought. At one corner I noticed a guy walking his dog, coming from the opposite direction on the same side of the street. "ahhhh", the narrator interjected, "it is stimuli such as this that trigger focused thought  .. that is how you lose yourself". And sure enough, the number of thoughts that arose and passed through over the next few seconds would take a text wall to relate, all in rapid-fire succession. I didn't cross the street, just hugged the opposite end of the sidewalk as we passed. He had her on a short leash, and she was very excited, rearing up on her hind legs at the tension of it. Some sort of mid-sized short-haired mutt, perhaps with some hound, perhaps even pitt, young, but not a puppy. He was telling her "it's ok girl!, calm down!". But I could tell her excitement was positive as she strained the walker's hand. As we passed I vocalized ( externally  ) "hey puppy dog! .. who's a good girl?!? .. hi puppy!". The walker intoned "ok, say hello!", and I held out my hand for her to nose-up-to, all without breaking stride, or even making eye contact with the walker. No need for it! .. (from behind me, unseen, "ok, c'mon girl!") .. Cutting through all the nuanced analysis of the various layers of thought, mood, pre-thought and emotion that trailed in the aftermath, there was .. one .. true ... thought ... "IMPOSTER!" ... hmmm ... who is it that would slice through the cacophon(e)y, re-establish the silence so, and name this imposter, an imposter, after all?  As sifty might say .. "and not even that" ...   Evocative. I feel like this needs to be a novel with a dangerous chain-smoking woman, an exotic bit of avian statuary, trenchcoats, fedoras, and way too much late-night bourbon. A battered sign over a run-down door reads "Laughter, PI."  |
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Jan 18, 2022 8:28:34 GMT -5
Thanks for taking the time to share that. I think I can relate to what you're describing. I think there are many ways that we can describe situations like this. Andy likes the term "model". It seems to me that one model that might apply is reefs' LOA. Now, not to troll you, as I'm pretty sure I've read your opinions on the matter, but, I'd like to add that the source of that attractive inner-peace is beyond any thought about it, beyond any model of it. a little more what I meant by addressing the inner instead of the outer, because the outer reflects / results from the inner ... Until about 20 years ago, after getting at a pre-school age hepatitis, and having to diet and not to physically overexert for about a year, I always fought being to some degree overweight. I tried all kind of diets and gimmicks (including ear acupressure) with little success. When I reached almost 300 lbs my wife got worried and pressed me to seek medical advice. The tests showed that I was reasonably healthy, but I had high blood pressure and high cholesterol, so they put me on medication. I consulted a nutritionist too, who didn't give me any useful advice. Serendipitously, about a month after taking those steps, I found on line John Walker's (founder of Autodesk Inc.) story about how he found out what causes weight gain, how to control it, and about his success with that. Having an engineering formation I related to it easily. Exactly during that period, while browsing through the books at a Costco warehouse, I discovered Jorge Cruise's book "8 Minutes in the Morning", which pretty much confirmed what I understood from John Walker, and which also offered a clearer "program" of exercise, diet and lifestyle changes. You need to intake less calories, and expend more, while building up your health. In 13 months I dropped to my normal weight of 165 lb. After only a few months from starting my version of Cruise's program ,as I customized it for myself, I was taken off both the blood pressure and the cholesterol medicines, and my doctor was so amazed by my results that she even asked me to write down what I did, so she can share it with other patients. At work, they asked me to write a piece for the company's website. Many colleagues and acquaintances asked for details about how they could replicate my success. It is true that after 20 years, there is not even one person I know of that followed what I recommended. Not even my wife who now fights with some overweight. I kept my normal weight for over 20 years. But, my point is that early in this process I realized that actually I was looking at the being overweight the wrong way. It wasn't that I have to loose weight to be healthy, but I have to be healthy and the weigh loss, and the normal weight, will be the result of that. This is what I meant by addressing the inner instead of the outer, because the outer reflects / results from the inner. It is like wanting to have money to be secure, free, happy, help others, whatever ... You have to focus on the end result and not, in this case, on the money. They might / will come if needed to achieve those results. If you focus on the weight-loss, on the money, on the outer, you most likely won't achieve the end result you hoped for even if you achieved the weight-loss, the money, the outer. That's an inspirational story that reflects some valuable learned wisdom. Again, thank you for taking the time to relate it. With respect to Ramana's pointing (which is, after all, the topic of the thread), I sometimes comment that realizing the existential truth isn't a gain, or an improvement, and certainly doesn't set the one who realizes on any sort of higher material plane. The realization isn't an accomplishment, but it does offer some perspective on the nature of accomplishment, generally. You've expressed your wisdom in terms of the interplay between inner and outer life - much like I described my walk. To cut to the chase, the realization of the existential truth is an entirely new perspective on "inner", and "outer".  Life goes on, lessons can be learned, and those lessons expressed in various descriptions of wisdom, but learned wisdom is always relative, while what can be realized about the nature of existence, is not. |
|
|
|
Post by zazeniac on Jan 18, 2022 10:11:13 GMT -5
Thanks for taking the time to share that. I think I can relate to what you're describing. I think there are many ways that we can describe situations like this. Andy likes the term "model". It seems to me that one model that might apply is reefs' LOA. Now, not to troll you, as I'm pretty sure I've read your opinions on the matter, but, I'd like to add that the source of that attractive inner-peace is beyond any thought about it, beyond any model of it. a little more what I meant by addressing the inner instead of the outer, because the outer reflects / results from the inner ... Until about 20 years ago, after getting at a pre-school age hepatitis, and having to diet and not to physically overexert for about a year, I always fought being to some degree overweight. I tried all kind of diets and gimmicks (including ear acupressure) with little success. When I reached almost 300 lbs my wife got worried and pressed me to seek medical advice. The tests showed that I was reasonably healthy, but I had high blood pressure and high cholesterol, so they put me on medication. I consulted a nutritionist too, who didn't give me any useful advice. Serendipitously, about a month after taking those steps, I found on line John Walker's (founder of Autodesk Inc.) story about how he found out what causes weight gain, how to control it, and about his success with that. Having an engineering formation I related to it easily. Exactly during that period, while browsing through the books at a Costco warehouse, I discovered Jorge Cruise's book "8 Minutes in the Morning", which pretty much confirmed what I understood from John Walker, and which also offered a clearer "program" of exercise, diet and lifestyle changes. You need to intake less calories, and expend more, while building up your health. In 13 months I dropped to my normal weight of 165 lb. After only a few months from starting my version of Cruise's program ,as I customized it for myself, I was taken off both the blood pressure and the cholesterol medicines, and my doctor was so amazed by my results that she even asked me to write down what I did, so she can share it with other patients. At work, they asked me to write a piece for the company's website. Many colleagues and acquaintances asked for details about how they could replicate my success. It is true that after 20 years, there is not even one person I know of that followed what I recommended. Not even my wife who now fights with some overweight. I kept my normal weight for over 20 years. But, my point is that early in this process I realized that actually I was looking at the being overweight the wrong way. It wasn't that I have to loose weight to be healthy, but I have to be healthy and the weigh loss, and the normal weight, will be the result of that. This is what I meant by addressing the inner instead of the outer, because the outer reflects / results from the inner. It is like wanting to have money to be secure, free, happy, help others, whatever ... You have to focus on the end result and not, in this case, on the money. They might / will come if needed to achieve those results. If you focus on the weight-loss, on the money, on the outer, you most likely won't achieve the end result you hoped for even if you achieved the weight-loss, the money, the outer. My mother always said, you have to love what you do, otherwise forget it. When you love doing something you don't do it for the sake of anything other than itself. I love power lifting and tennis. Probably because these sports require a great amount of technical focus. You have to be very precise and somewhat structured, although in tennis learning to relax is paramount. Anyways zen meditation for me is what Cruise and Walker were for you, but my issues weren't weight related, but rather emotional, mental. In meditation practice I learned to let go, to rely on the process and let go of outcomes. It is a bit disconcerting, but in doing so I found great relief. Now I, like you, tried to impart my experience to others struggling with mental illness without success. That was a valuable lesson for me as well. Anyways I enjoyed your post. Thanks. |
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Jan 19, 2022 4:39:50 GMT -5
Just to clarify a little more what I meant by addressing the inner instead of the outer, because the outer reflects / results from the inner ... Until about 20 years ago, after getting at a pre-school age hepatitis, and having to diet and not to physically overexert for about a year, I always fought being to some degree overweight. I tried all kind of diets and gimmicks (including ear acupressure) with little success. When I reached almost 300 lbs my wife got worried and pressed me to seek medical advice. The tests showed that I was reasonably healthy, but I had high blood pressure and high cholesterol, so they put me on medication. I consulted a nutritionist too, who didn't give me any useful advice. Serendipitously, about a month after taking those steps, I found on line John Walker's (founder of Autodesk Inc.) story about how he found out what causes weight gain, how to control it, and about his success with that. Having an engineering formation I related to it easily. Exactly during that period, while browsing through the books at a Costco warehouse, I discovered Jorge Cruise's book "8 Minutes in the Morning", which pretty much confirmed what I understood from John Walker, and which also offered a clearer "program" of exercise, diet and lifestyle changes. You need to intake less calories, and expend more, while building up your health. In 13 months I dropped to my normal weight of 165 lb. After only a few months from starting my version of Cruise's program ,as I customized it for myself, I was taken off both the blood pressure and the cholesterol medicines, and my doctor was so amazed by my results that she even asked me to write down what I did, so she can share it with other patients. At work, they asked me to write a piece for the company's website. Many colleagues and acquaintances asked for details about how they could replicate my success. It is true that after 20 years, there is not even one person I know of that followed what I recommended. Not even my wife who now fights with some overweight. I kept my normal weight for over 20 years. But, my point is that early in this process I realized that actually I was looking at the being overweight the wrong way. It wasn't that I have to loose weight to be healthy, but I have to be healthy and the weigh loss, and the normal weight, will be the result of that. This is what I meant by addressing the inner instead of the outer, because the outer reflects / results from the inner. It is like wanting to have money to be secure, free, happy, help others, whatever ... You have to focus on the end result and not, in this case, on the money. They might / will come if needed to achieve those results. If you focus on the weight-loss, on the money, on the outer, you most likely won't achieve the end result you hoped for even if you achieved the weight-loss, the money, the outer. My mother always said, you have to love what you do, otherwise forget it. When you love doing something you don't do it for the sake of anything other than itself. I love power lifting and tennis. Probably because these sports require a great amount of technical focus. You have to be very precise and somewhat structured, although in tennis learning to relax is paramount. Anyways zen meditation for me is what Cruise and Walker were for you, but my issues weren't weight related, but rather emotional, mental. In meditation practice I learned to let go, to rely on the process and let go of outcomes. It is a bit disconcerting, but in doing so I found great relief. N ow I, like you, tried to impart my experience to others struggling with mental illness without success. That was a valuable lesson for me as well. Anyways I enjoyed your post. Thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by siftingtothetruth on Jan 22, 2022 19:25:03 GMT -5
Continued from Verse Thirty31. FOR HIM WHO IS IMMERSED IN THE BLISS OF THE SELF, ARISING FROM THE EXTINCTION OF THE EGO, WHAT REMAINS TO BE ACCOMPLISHED? HE IS NOT AWARE OF ANYTHING (AS) OTHER THAN THE SELF. WHO CAN APPREHEND HIS STATE? Commentary: When the illusion of the I is, so to say, penetrated, bliss is the result. This bliss goes beyond ordinary pleasure, because it is not contrasted with pain. In this bliss there is no cognizing anything separate. Thoughts and objects and separations and boundaries are themselves nothing but the seamless continuity of the Self. In this wholeness, in this totality, there is no room to do anything, to make any changes, or to go anywhere. Nothing therefore remains to be done. Things that are done are seen as such from the egoic point of view. But when the ego is deactivated, nothing can be said to be happening. This is not to say that nothing is happening, exactly — that too would be an egoic concept. But language falls away. By falling away is meant the fact that even what is spoken is merely understood to be a modification of silence; language is not what it seems to be. Language falls away because language is a child of the egoic mode of thought, the separating mode of thought. And so the experience of the realized one can never be described, because language cannot touch it. When it seems to be described, it is in fact not described. The mind is stopped, and so there is no coherent way to talk about the experience that results. And in fact the mind is always stopped — or to be accurate it has never started. The mind appears to be moving to outsiders, but it is not so in reality. In reality, the mind does not move even when it appears to move, and even its appearing to move is not really even an appearance. At any time, see all the forty verses posts that I have published so far here. |
|
|
|
Post by siftingtothetruth on Jan 31, 2022 13:05:56 GMT -5
Continued from Verse Thirty-One32. ALTHOUGH THE SCRIPTURES PROCLAIM 'THOU ART THAT', IT IS ONLY A SIGN OF WEAKNESS OF MIND TO MEDITATE 'I AM THAT, NOT THIS', BECAUSE YOU ARE ETERNALLY THAT. WHAT HAS TO BE DONE IS TO INVESTIGATE WHAT ONE REALLY IS AND REMAIN THAT. Commentary: We have to go beyond concepts. Mentally repeating the idea that you are Self over and over, as the scriptures tell us is Truth, keeps you on a certain static thought, and doesn’t permit you to go beyond it. Truth may be put in various words, but it cannot be attained by fixating on any set of words, or on any particular idea. To find Truth, one must exit the network of ideas. The only way to go beyond that network is to see the egoic illusion at work. This requires looking deeply into the I. That will discern away the false things that you take yourself to be (that have been ‘superimposed’ on the ‘pure’ notion of the I). When that discernment occurs, even for a moment, peace happens, and attachments to normal things of life drops. That discernment is revisited over and over until it becomes absolutely clear and there is an automatic remaining in that without a return to the egoic mode of life. Or, to put it more accurately, it is understood that there never was nor could there ever be such a mode of life. At any time, see all the forty verses posts that I have published so far here. |
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Jan 31, 2022 14:20:34 GMT -5
Continued from Verse Thirty-One32. ALTHOUGH THE SCRIPTURES PROCLAIM 'THOU ART THAT', IT IS ONLY A SIGN OF WEAKNESS OF MIND TO MEDITATE 'I AM THAT, NOT THIS', BECAUSE YOU ARE ETERNALLY THAT. WHAT HAS TO BE DONE IS TO INVESTIGATE WHAT ONE REALLY IS AND REMAIN THAT. Commentary: We have to go beyond concepts. Mentally repeating the idea that you are Self over and over, as the scriptures tell us is Truth, keeps you on a certain static thought, and doesn’t permit you to go beyond it. Truth may be put in various words, but it cannot be attained by fixating on any set of words, or on any particular idea. To find Truth, one must exit the network of ideas. The only way to go beyond that network is to see the egoic illusion at work. This requires looking deeply into the I. That will discern away the false things that you take yourself to be (that have been ‘superimposed’ on the ‘pure’ notion of the I). When that discernment occurs, even for a moment, peace happens, and attachments to normal things of life drops. That discernment is revisited over and over until it becomes absolutely clear and there is an automatic remaining in that without a return to the egoic mode of life. Or, to put it more accurately, it is understood that there never was nor could there ever be such a mode of life. At any time, see all the forty verses posts that I have published so far here. An alternative possibility is to have the egoic sense of "I" vanish without a trace, so that when one looks "within" there is no longer anything "within." That makes it obvious that no egoic "I" ever existed in any sense, and that kind of seeing also results in freedom by making it obvious that THIS is the real see-er, thinker, do-er, etc. |
|
|
|
Post by inavalan on Jan 31, 2022 18:30:30 GMT -5
Continued from Verse Thirty-One32. ALTHOUGH THE SCRIPTURES PROCLAIM 'THOU ART THAT', IT IS ONLY A SIGN OF WEAKNESS OF MIND TO MEDITATE 'I AM THAT, NOT THIS', BECAUSE YOU ARE ETERNALLY THAT. WHAT HAS TO BE DONE IS TO INVESTIGATE WHAT ONE REALLY IS AND REMAIN THAT. Commentary: We have to go beyond concepts. Mentally repeating the idea that you are Self over and over, as the scriptures tell us is Truth, keeps you on a certain static thought, and doesn’t permit you to go beyond it. Truth may be put in various words, but it cannot be attained by fixating on any set of words, or on any particular idea. To find Truth, one must exit the network of ideas. The only way to go beyond that network is to see the egoic illusion at work. This requires looking deeply into the I. That will discern away the false things that you take yourself to be (that have been ‘superimposed’ on the ‘pure’ notion of the I). When that discernment occurs, even for a moment, peace happens, and attachments to normal things of life drops. That discernment is revisited over and over until it becomes absolutely clear and there is an automatic remaining in that without a return to the egoic mode of life. Or, to put it more accurately, it is understood that there never was nor could there ever be such a mode of life. At any time, see all the forty verses posts that I have published so far here. So, you believe that we are caused to incarnate into a state of illusion, with the only purpose of finding out that, before dying and returning to the non-illusory state that we came from in the first place ... |
|
|
|
Post by inavalan on Jan 31, 2022 22:51:34 GMT -5
Continued from Verse Thirty-One32. ALTHOUGH THE SCRIPTURES PROCLAIM 'THOU ART THAT', IT IS ONLY A SIGN OF WEAKNESS OF MIND TO MEDITATE 'I AM THAT, NOT THIS', BECAUSE YOU ARE ETERNALLY THAT. WHAT HAS TO BE DONE IS TO INVESTIGATE WHAT ONE REALLY IS AND REMAIN THAT. Commentary: We have to go beyond concepts. Mentally repeating the idea that you are Self over and over, as the scriptures tell us is Truth, keeps you on a certain static thought, and doesn’t permit you to go beyond it. Truth may be put in various words, but it cannot be attained by fixating on any set of words, or on any particular idea. To find Truth, one must exit the network of ideas. The only way to go beyond that network is to see the egoic illusion at work. This requires looking deeply into the I. That will discern away the false things that you take yourself to be (that have been ‘superimposed’ on the ‘pure’ notion of the I). When that discernment occurs, even for a moment, peace happens, and attachments to normal things of life drops. That discernment is revisited over and over until it becomes absolutely clear and there is an automatic remaining in that without a return to the egoic mode of life. Or, to put it more accurately, it is understood that there never was nor could there ever be such a mode of life. At any time, see all the forty verses posts that I have published so far here. So, you believe that we are caused to incarnate into a state of illusion, with the only purpose of finding out that, before dying and returning to the non-illusory state that we came from in the first place ... 32. ALTHOUGH THE SCRIPTURES PROCLAIM 'THOU ART THAT', IT IS ONLY A SIGN OF WEAKNESS OF MIND TO MEDITATE 'I AM THAT, NOT THIS', BECAUSE YOU ARE ETERNALLY THAT. THIS = ego, a.k.a. outer-self, outer-ego, the personality's state when focused toward the physical-reality THAT = inner-self, inner-ego, the personality's state when focused toward the wider-reality, a.k.a. inner-reality The dogma says " you are your inner-ego", but it is wrong to interpret that to mean " you are your inner-ego, not your outer-ego", because the dogma only meant that your "inner-ego" is the immortal part of you (and didn't infer that you aren't also the physical part of you, your outer-ego; you are that too). WHAT HAS TO BE DONE IS TO INVESTIGATE WHAT ONE REALLY IS AND REMAIN THAT. Without saying that this is "the" only or main purpose for which you are here, incarnated in the physical, the quote only says that you should investigate your true nature, but not by rationalizing or following a dogma or any other external source, but by projecting into a state of consciousness that gives you access to your inner-self's knowledge. |
|
|
|
Post by inavalan on Jan 31, 2022 22:59:40 GMT -5
Continued from Verse Thirty-One32. ALTHOUGH THE SCRIPTURES PROCLAIM 'THOU ART THAT', IT IS ONLY A SIGN OF WEAKNESS OF MIND TO MEDITATE 'I AM THAT, NOT THIS', BECAUSE YOU ARE ETERNALLY THAT. WHAT HAS TO BE DONE IS TO INVESTIGATE WHAT ONE REALLY IS AND REMAIN THAT. Commentary: We have to go beyond concepts. Mentally repeating the idea that you are Self over and over, as the scriptures tell us is Truth, keeps you on a certain static thought, and doesn’t permit you to go beyond it. Truth may be put in various words, but it cannot be attained by fixating on any set of words, or on any particular idea. To find Truth, one must exit the network of ideas. The only way to go beyond that network is to see the egoic illusion at work. This requires looking deeply into the I. That will discern away the false things that you take yourself to be (that have been ‘superimposed’ on the ‘pure’ notion of the I). When that discernment occurs, even for a moment, peace happens, and attachments to normal things of life drops. That discernment is revisited over and over until it becomes absolutely clear and there is an automatic remaining in that without a return to the egoic mode of life. Or, to put it more accurately, it is understood that there never was nor could there ever be such a mode of life. At any time, see all the forty verses posts that I have published so far here. An alternative possibility is to have the egoic sense of "I" vanish without a trace, so that when one looks "within" there is no longer anything "within." That makes it obvious that no egoic "I" ever existed in any sense, and that kind of seeing also results in freedom by making it obvious that THIS is the real see-er, thinker, do-er, etc. We all distort what we perceive, both from the outer and from the inner realities, through our unconscious beliefs and expectations. The trick is to be aware of that (any SR worth anything should include this realization), and to purposefully minimize distortions by leaving aside all our beliefs and expectations. It doesn't seem that most of us do that. |
|
|
|
Post by siftingtothetruth on Feb 1, 2022 0:40:20 GMT -5
Continued from Verse Thirty-One32. ALTHOUGH THE SCRIPTURES PROCLAIM 'THOU ART THAT', IT IS ONLY A SIGN OF WEAKNESS OF MIND TO MEDITATE 'I AM THAT, NOT THIS', BECAUSE YOU ARE ETERNALLY THAT. WHAT HAS TO BE DONE IS TO INVESTIGATE WHAT ONE REALLY IS AND REMAIN THAT. Commentary: We have to go beyond concepts. Mentally repeating the idea that you are Self over and over, as the scriptures tell us is Truth, keeps you on a certain static thought, and doesn’t permit you to go beyond it. Truth may be put in various words, but it cannot be attained by fixating on any set of words, or on any particular idea. To find Truth, one must exit the network of ideas. The only way to go beyond that network is to see the egoic illusion at work. This requires looking deeply into the I. That will discern away the false things that you take yourself to be (that have been ‘superimposed’ on the ‘pure’ notion of the I). When that discernment occurs, even for a moment, peace happens, and attachments to normal things of life drops. That discernment is revisited over and over until it becomes absolutely clear and there is an automatic remaining in that without a return to the egoic mode of life. Or, to put it more accurately, it is understood that there never was nor could there ever be such a mode of life.At any time, see all the forty verses posts that I have published so far here. An alternative possibility is to have the egoic sense of "I" vanish without a trace, so that when one looks "within" there is no longer anything "within." That makes it obvious that no egoic "I" ever existed in any sense, and that kind of seeing also results in freedom by making it obvious that THIS is the real see-er, thinker, do-er, etc. Sure, I believe that's another way of saying the same thing, per the underlined portion above. |
|
|
|
Post by siftingtothetruth on Feb 1, 2022 0:41:32 GMT -5
Continued from Verse Thirty-One32. ALTHOUGH THE SCRIPTURES PROCLAIM 'THOU ART THAT', IT IS ONLY A SIGN OF WEAKNESS OF MIND TO MEDITATE 'I AM THAT, NOT THIS', BECAUSE YOU ARE ETERNALLY THAT. WHAT HAS TO BE DONE IS TO INVESTIGATE WHAT ONE REALLY IS AND REMAIN THAT. Commentary: We have to go beyond concepts. Mentally repeating the idea that you are Self over and over, as the scriptures tell us is Truth, keeps you on a certain static thought, and doesn’t permit you to go beyond it. Truth may be put in various words, but it cannot be attained by fixating on any set of words, or on any particular idea. To find Truth, one must exit the network of ideas. The only way to go beyond that network is to see the egoic illusion at work. This requires looking deeply into the I. That will discern away the false things that you take yourself to be (that have been ‘superimposed’ on the ‘pure’ notion of the I). When that discernment occurs, even for a moment, peace happens, and attachments to normal things of life drops. That discernment is revisited over and over until it becomes absolutely clear and there is an automatic remaining in that without a return to the egoic mode of life. Or, to put it more accurately, it is understood that there never was nor could there ever be such a mode of life. At any time, see all the forty verses posts that I have published so far here. So, you believe that we are caused to incarnate into a state of illusion, with the only purpose of finding out that, before dying and returning to the non-illusory state that we came from in the first place ... Not quite. The idea that there is an illusion is itself an illusion... this is not something the mind can comprehend, really. |
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Feb 1, 2022 12:00:34 GMT -5
So, you believe that we are caused to incarnate into a state of illusion, with the only purpose of finding out that, before dying and returning to the non-illusory state that we came from in the first place ... 32. ALTHOUGH THE SCRIPTURES PROCLAIM 'THOU ART THAT', IT IS ONLY A SIGN OF WEAKNESS OF MIND TO MEDITATE 'I AM THAT, NOT THIS', BECAUSE YOU ARE ETERNALLY THAT. THIS = ego, a.k.a. outer-self, outer-ego, the personality's state when focused toward the physical-reality THAT = inner-self, inner-ego, the personality's state when focused toward the wider-reality, a.k.a. inner-reality The dogma says " you are your inner-ego", but it is wrong to interpret that to mean " you are your inner-ego, not your outer-ego", because the dogma only meant that your "inner-ego" is the immortal part of you (and didn't infer that you aren't also the physical part of you, your outer-ego; you are that too). WHAT HAS TO BE DONE IS TO INVESTIGATE WHAT ONE REALLY IS AND REMAIN THAT. Without saying that this is "the" only or main purpose for which you are here, incarnated in the physical, the quote only says that you should investigate your true nature, but not by rationalizing or following a dogma or any other external source, but by projecting into a state of consciousness that gives you access to your inner-self's knowledge. No, the THAT in the scriptures is referring to an absence of distortion in perception that makes clear the nature of the apparent divide between "inner" and "outer". To realize this requires leaving aside all of your beliefs and expectations as to "inner" and "outer". Ego, "physical reality", purpose, "incarnation", projection, consciousness and states of consciousness are all rather heavy-duty conceptual structures that form the constituent thoughts (and feelings) underlying your conscious AND subconscious beliefs and expectations as to the apparent divide between "inner" and "outer". |
|
|
|
Post by inavalan on Feb 1, 2022 13:10:01 GMT -5
32. ALTHOUGH THE SCRIPTURES PROCLAIM 'THOU ART THAT', IT IS ONLY A SIGN OF WEAKNESS OF MIND TO MEDITATE 'I AM THAT, NOT THIS', BECAUSE YOU ARE ETERNALLY THAT. THIS = ego, a.k.a. outer-self, outer-ego, the personality's state when focused toward the physical-reality THAT = inner-self, inner-ego, the personality's state when focused toward the wider-reality, a.k.a. inner-reality The dogma says " you are your inner-ego", but it is wrong to interpret that to mean " you are your inner-ego, not your outer-ego", because the dogma only meant that your "inner-ego" is the immortal part of you (and didn't infer that you aren't also the physical part of you, your outer-ego; you are that too). WHAT HAS TO BE DONE IS TO INVESTIGATE WHAT ONE REALLY IS AND REMAIN THAT. Without saying that this is "the" only or main purpose for which you are here, incarnated in the physical, the quote only says that you should investigate your true nature, but not by rationalizing or following a dogma or any other external source, but by projecting into a state of consciousness that gives you access to your inner-self's knowledge. No, the THAT in the scriptures is referring to an absence of distortion in perception that makes clear the nature of the apparent divide between "inner" and "outer". To realize this requires leaving aside all of your beliefs and expectations as to "inner" and "outer". Ego, "physical reality", purpose, "incarnation", projection, consciousness and states of consciousness are all rather heavy-duty conceptual structures that form the constituent thoughts (and feelings) underlying your conscious AND subconscious beliefs and expectations as to the apparent divide between "inner" and "outer". You added your beliefs to the author's words as an imaginary cloak. My posted interpretation differs from yours because we have different beliefs. It is likely that the author meant through his words something somewhat different from both of our interpretations. Another difference between what you wrote and what I did is that I tried to minimize my distorting by sticking more closely to the text at hand, while you liberally draped it in your beliefs and your inferences about mine. One more observation: your approach was to prove me incorrect, and not to address the text, which tells you more about you than about the meaning of the text. A text, or an event has always a multi-layered symbolism, and everyone can get from it only what it fits their level of evolvement. Ours differ. |
|
|
|
Post by siftingtothetruth on Feb 15, 2022 22:25:57 GMT -5
Continued from Verse Thirty-Two33. IT IS RIDICULOUS TO SAY EITHER 'I HAVE NOT REALIZED THE SELF' OR 'I HAVE REALIZED THE SELF'; ARE THERE TWO SELVES, FOR ONE TO BE THE OBJECT OF THE OTHER'S REALIZATION? IT IS A TRUTH WITHIN THE EXPERIENCE OF EVERYONE THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE SELF. Commentary: Realization is an event and thus a concept. Events and concepts happen in the land of things, that is, the land of the mind or the ego. This ego, this foundational feeling that “I am,” creates the sense of separation that is the identification with the mind and the body. This is called the veil of ignorance. It is the purpose of self-inquiry to pierce that veil. But in piercing that veil, it is found that you are not the ego, are not the mind — and never were. Therefore the idea of realization is also inapplicable — and always was. Who identified with the mind and the body? Who was ignorant of their true nature? There was no such entity — that, seemingly paradoxically, is realization. The “I” that could realize anything is the separate I — precisely the I that is seen to be not what it thought itself to be. It cannot be that I that realizes anything, because realization is seeing how that I is an object. That I cannot realize or not realize anything, any more than a stone can. And yet the infinite, inexpressible Self which we actually are also cannot realize anything, since it cannot be ignorant in the first place. Pure light cannot admit darkness. The Self does not cognize objects. The Self does not do anything. All doing and all things are only in the egoic perspective. Realization is the leaving behind of the notion that ”I” am an entity that could realize anything. And yet, despite all that, the seeker must reach for this realization as if they could realize it. The impossibility of realization, the eternality of realization, is itself the realization that will then be clear. At any time, see all the forty verses posts that I have published so far here. |
|
.. that is how you lose yourself". And sure enough, the number of thoughts that arose and passed through over the next few seconds would take a text wall to relate, all in rapid-fire succession. 
) "hey puppy dog! .. who's a good girl?!? .. hi puppy!". The walker intoned "ok, say hello!", and I held out my hand for her to nose-up-to, all without breaking stride, or even making eye contact with the walker. No need for it! 
Evocative. I feel like this needs to be a novel with a dangerous chain-smoking woman, an exotic bit of avian statuary, trenchcoats, fedoras, and way too much late-night bourbon. A battered sign over a run-down door reads "Laughter, PI."
