Creating an alternative reality

[andrew]

Jan 21, 2021 11:35:50 GMT -5 zazeniac said:

Jan 21, 2021 9:23:50 GMT -5 andrew said:

Yes, I also believe highly abusive things can be done with really quite noble intentions.

In many countries, governments may sincerely wish to keep their people 'safe'. Seems noble. But that doesn't mean that what they are doing isn't highly abusive in the name of that safety.

No matter how hard I try, I can't equate mass murder and torture to a one, two or even three month lockdown or having to wear a mask. It doesn't work for me.

I haven't equated them either.

I do believe that when a government authority locks down its citizens, it is abusive, though lockdowns obviously vary in their intensity of abusiveness (I hear American states vary a lot).

And to be clear, I'm not unconditionally opposed to temporary lockdowns as a practical intervention. Sometimes accepting abuse is still the highest option available, all things considered.

What does it mean to be sovereign to you? Does spiritual sovereignty have any meaning to you? If not, no probs.

[andrew]

Has any totalitarian and fascist society throughout history NOT acted with noble intention, I wonder?

Apparently the Nazis had a phrase which they used in order to cover all abuses by the state: “Für ihre sicherheit.” Meaning, what we do is “for your safety.”

Where and how does spiritual sovereignty fit into a government edict that this is 'For your safety'? Is it possible to be spiritually sovereign in North Korea?

(I'm a good social distancer to be clear, I would likely be distancing with or without government instruction).

[andrew]

Here on the forum, we have an 'advantage' of knowing we are ''the eternal''. As Tolle said, the opposite of death is birth, Life has no opposite.

Here in the UK, kids haven't been able to play freely for nearly a year. A year of stultified interests, passions, connection, and joy. Teenagers...the need to explore, flirt, kiss, dance, socialise, party!

And I wonder, knowing what I directly know about the nature of 'Life', do I want kids to protect my health SO much, that I am willing to rob them of all that for so long?

I understand we all have different contexts and I raise this issue largely to suggest that surely our spirituality affects our beliefs and perceptions of lockdown, masks, government authority, vaccines etc.

There's a core question here...what is the purpose of life? Now, obviously that can be answered with a 'raise one finger' etc, but if that answer JUSTIFIES your want for kids being locked up to protect your health, then I'm going to say....'that's not a good answer'.

And is there a place for the law of attraction in all this? For example, the popular notion of ''Stay Safe'' (Heil Hitler!). Does ''Stay Safe'' differ from our old friend Tzu's ''Be Well''? I think so. Does the Law of Attraction suggest that we get OTHER people to look after our health? Is that how it works? Or is the LOA just spiritual nonsense and scientists should be fully trusted? How do we marry science with LOA?

So much to potentially discuss that relates to spirituality.

[andrew]

I guess I won't be on the forum long to say much more. Strange day. Maybe I'm responding to the election on some level.

2021 I reckon the year when spirituality can no longer hide in a corner from real world issues.

[zendancer]

FWIW, RNA vaccines don't enter the nucleus of cells (where the DNA is), only the cytoplasm, so I'm not sure what's meant by "gene modification" in reference to RNA vaccines.

[andrew]

Jan 21, 2021 14:18:49 GMT -5 zendancer said:

FWIW, RNA vaccines don't enter the nucleus of cells (where the DNA is), only the cytoplasm, so I'm not sure what's meant by "gene modification" in reference to RNA vaccines.

Perhaps 'gene therapy technology' is more accurate. I guess we all know the Pfizer (and Moderna) solutions don't work like traditional vaccines. The new breed use a computer to model the covid sequence (though it's not yet clear what sample they used to model from), and then it's encoded with lipid nanoparticles to stimulate the necessary proteins. The technology differs from the 'traditional' kind obviously (as it contains no live virus) and hence many people don't even want to call it a 'vaccine'.

[zendancer]

Politicizing a virus is truly a strange thing because a virus doesn't care what an individual's political persuasion is; it just searches for a place to replicate. What I've discovered is that people who don't believe the virus is serious only change their minds after someone they know (or they, themself) becomes seriously ill with the virus. Not only can it be deadly in the short term, but docs are now discovering that even people who contracted what seemed like mild cases with few symptoms can later have serious and unusual after-effects. One of the latest discoveries is what some physicians are calling "Covid psychosis"--full-blown psychosis that shows up three months after what appears to be a total recovery. They're not sure whether the virus attacks the brain or the immune system attacks the brain. Same same with cardiac, kidney, and liver issues, as well as diabetes suddenly appearing. The long-haulers are well documented, and one lady I know who got sick last April has never recovered normal lung function. This is nothing like the common flu despite what some people think. Our plumber was in bed for 12 days with a high fever, and he told me yesterday that even now, a month later, he is still having weird pains shoot through various parts of his body. The director of our local hospital caught the virus three months ago, and he told me that he's still not back to normal.

[andrew]

Jan 21, 2021 14:45:27 GMT -5 zendancer said:

Politicizing a virus is truly a strange thing because a virus doesn't care what an individual's political persuasion is; it just searches for a place to replicate. What I've discovered is that people who don't believe the virus is serious only change their minds after someone they know (or they, themself) becomes seriously ill with the virus. Not only can it be deadly in the short term, but docs are now discovering that even people who contracted what seemed like mild cases with few symptoms can later have serious and unusual after-effects. One of the latest discoveries is what some physicians are calling "Covid psychosis"--full-blown psychosis that shows up three months after what appears to be a total recovery. They're not sure whether the virus attacks the brain or the immune system attacks the brain. Same same with cardiac, kidney, and liver issues, as well as diabetes suddenly appearing. The long-haulers are well documented, and one lady I know who got sick last April has never recovered normal lung function. This is nothing like the common flu despite what some people think. Our plumber was in bed for 12 days with a high fever, and he told me yesterday that even now, a month later, he is still having weird pains shoot through various parts of his body. The director of our local hospital caught the virus three months ago, and he told me that he's still not back to normal.

I'm from the UK so I know people that have gotten very sick (and one that died).

Which makes the suppression of successful remedies and medicines even more sickening.

[andrew]

Like it or not, the virus is a political issue, and a spiritual issue.

[andrew]

Sovereignty is a spiritual issue.

Responsibility is a spiritual issue.

Purpose of life is a spiritual issue.

LOA is a spiritual issue.

Kindness is a spiritual issue.

Freedom is a spiritual issue.

The nature of Authority is a spiritual issue.

The really big issues of the day all have spirituality at their core.

[andrew]

If we aren't seriously thinking about how lockdown, masks, government authority, freedom, sovereignty, kindness....relates to our spirituality, then...this may sound rude...but our spirituality is bogus.

Covid has killed approx 2 million on the planet I believe. Let's pretend it has killed 200 million.
'
Does 'Life' actually care whether it's 2 million or 200 million? Does 'God' judge the number? Does 'Life' care if a meteor obliterates all 8 billion? Does 'God' judge that?

How many animals do we kill each year for food across the planet?

How many people have starved across the planet in the last 20 years?

How many die of cancer?

As spiritual folks, we 'know' perfection. We are among a relative few that don't actually have to be lost in hysteria, and scared of 'disaster'. Does that mean we should be unkind and without compassion? Of course not! I am absolutely happy to cross the street for someone if they seem anxious, and I wear a mask to shops without complaint because I have no interest in upsetting folks. Plus, I DO see value in 'sensible caution'.

But consider the spiritual price we pay for asking children to look after our health for us. Where's the sovereignty in that? Where's our responsibility for 'personal' creation? Where's the Freedom in asking kids to do that? Where's the kindness in asking kids to do that? Why do we give 'authority' to an external threat that would have us do that?

Covid is a collective creation, and from a particular point of view, it's a nasty one.

The question for me from the start has been....so how do we create something different and better?

[zazeniac]

Andrew, I don't think British lockdowns or French lockdowns come even close to the repression in North Korea or Nazi Germany. This is a temporary inconvenience to relieve the pressure on the health care systems.

Nobody supports a permanent lockdown. As to children's happiness, several recent studies show that youngsters don't seem to spread the disease. Maybe the Swedes were right and we should have kept primary schools open all along.

If you read about the 1918 pandemic, you'll note many similarities to this one, except that one killed youth primarily. But one strategy that didn't work in 1918 and won't work today and has failed everywhere including Sweden is the notion that you can set up an enclave to protect the vulnerable. They tried that in 1918 by trying to isolate and shield military camps. It was a dismal failure.

[andrew]

Jan 21, 2021 15:34:59 GMT -5 zazeniac said:

Andrew, I don't think British lockdowns or French lockdowns come even close to the repression in North Korea or Nazi Germany. This is a temporary inconvenience to relieve the pressure on the health care systems.

Nobody supports a permanent lockdown. As to children's happiness, several recent studies show that youngsters don't seem to spread the disease. Maybe the Swedes were right and we should have kept primary schools open all along.

If you read about the 1918 pandemic, you'll note many similarities to this one, except that one killed youth primarily. But one strategy that didn't work in 1918 and won't work today and has failed everywhere including Sweden is the notion that you can set up an enclave to protect the vulnerable. They tried that in 1918 by trying to isolate and shield military camps. It was a dismal failure.

Certainly in the UK, our leaders have been talking about long term restrictions. I suspect we are not the only country.

And I would agree that we're not close to the repression of North Korea (I used North Korea as a hypothetical example....can one retain spiritual sovereignty under an extreme level of totalitarianism?).

I could argue the case that Sweden has succeeded, but quite honestly, I can argue that on twitter. I'm not here to argue whether lockdowns work or don't work. Nor masks.

What I've been discussing here, today, is spirituality, that's not something I discuss on twitter.

As a spiritual person, how do you feel about asking children to wear masks to protect your health? Do you give any respect to the law of attraction? To what extent do you feel others should be responsible for looking after your health?

[inavalan]

In my experience and understanding, dreams can be symbolical or not (a.k.a. true). You have to translate / interpret the symbolical ones, if you want to understand their messages.

I believe it is the same with the "awake" reality created by our subconscious, directed by our inner-self.

For example: the pandemic. It is a symbolic message. My interpretation is that it isn’t about its effect on humanity, or such, but about how it is handled by each individual. In my case, it is part of a pattern, and precedes a major turn in my life. This is a pattern I experienced a few times before. It is also tied to having the humility to accept that being right is not enough.

(we, most of us, form our opinions based on what you're told, on a small sample of data we get first-handedly, using our intellect, affected by our emotions; trying to preach others our opinions is ridiculous, at the least)

(if this pandemic weren't a political issue too, then we woudln't be divided on it pretty much on the same political preferences; we use on it the same filters, most of us honestly believing we know the truth; we don't)

[Deleted]

Jan 21, 2021 7:13:21 GMT -5 zendancer said:

Then there's the TAT teacher who told people on a virtual retreat last year that tanks and thousands of military were being secretly assembled and would soon burst into view and imprison all of the satanic pedophiles operating the deep state. You can't make this stuff up.

The Q-anon source is apparently some random account on a message board. Maybe the FBI will someday uncover it and we'll find out if it was a sophisticated brainwashing team in a foreign intelligence agency, or just some kid having fun at his computer.