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Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2021 9:31:03 GMT -5
1. The lie that very little could be done medicinally about covid. The fudging of the case numbers and death certificates (I believe you use the same system there, as in the UK), that has it made it very difficult to establish the true danger and contagiousness of covid. 2. Whatever forces want Trump out, and also have the capacity to manipulate the situation. 1) I think your "lie" could be attributed to the Trump admin, but not the Biden team, which is pushing for a science based response and they are touting an ambitious plan of delivering 100 million vaccine doses in the next 100 days. 2) The American people wanted Trump out, not some shadowy conspiracy. The Trump team played no role in suppressing the medicine, I'm sure of that. I could be wrong, but I think Trump actually advocated for HCQ at an early point. And yes, obviously many American people wanted Trump out. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2021 9:41:42 GMT -5
Spiritual question...
If the cells of a body are alive, intelligent and conscious (as opposed to just 'material') should we ask them if they want to be artificially modified? Or do we just make an executive decision on their behalf?
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Post by Reefs on Jan 21, 2021 9:56:16 GMT -5
Spiritual question... If the cells of a body are alive, intelligent and conscious (as opposed to just 'material') should we ask them if they want to be artificially modified? Or do we just make an executive decision on their behalf? I think you are (grossly) overestimating the role you play in all of this.  |
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Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2021 9:57:40 GMT -5
Spiritual question... If the cells of a body are alive, intelligent and conscious (as opposed to just 'material') should we ask them if they want to be artificially modified? Or do we just make an executive decision on their behalf? I think of the body as one unit and we wouldn't individual parts breaking off, going rouge, and making demands. Well yes, one unit is a given, and the 'one' that makes the decision either way is just a thought itself. Nevertheless, there's clearly the illusion of relationship between this 'I' and the body, so 'I' notice when the bladder is full. Anything controversial there by our standards? So the question remains, should this apparent 'I' check in with the body when the body is invited to undergo a gene modification? Or should the 'I' treat the body as it is alive and conscious, or more as a materialistic machine to be handled and repaired? Or perhaps like a computer in which we insert an anti-virus software? |
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Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2021 10:03:22 GMT -5
Spiritual question... If the cells of a body are alive, intelligent and conscious (as opposed to just 'material') should we ask them if they want to be artificially modified? Or do we just make an executive decision on their behalf? I think you are (grossly) overestimating the role you play in all of this. Well, a decision DOES have to made for everybody, so the question is, how is that decision made? It's simple if one sees the body as a machine or a computer (and trusts the software on offer). I had a very interesting talk with a doctor (strong pro vaccine), who brought up the idea of an 'immune system'. I asked him how we should think of this 'immune system'...is it intelligent? Sentient? A computer? He really couldn't answer, and that's because the 'immune system' is itself a mythical concept. They can't 'find' an immune system just as they can't 'find' an unconscious mind. They can SEE how this alleged immune system works, but that's as far as it goes. So I told him that I would want to check in with my immune system before making a decision (I was being a bit disingenuous because I already know what my body is saying). He then stopped talking to me on the basis that I was coming from a 'mythological' place. For me, 'immune system' is another way of talking about an essential body intelligence (another mythical concept, but one I guess we are mostly comfortable with). |
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Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2021 10:08:12 GMT -5
Last year has been very interesting because we can no longer separate out spirituality from the political dimension and the medical dimension.
Of course, it's always nice to point back to that 'placeless place'...what a luxury that has been really for the last 10 years, but more and more, we are being asked to integrate our spirituality with 'real life' issues of what it means to be (for example)..... human, sovereign, free, abundant, eternal.
(Can we have the conspiracy thread back now that it turns out all of it was true hehe....joke!)
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Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2021 10:34:24 GMT -5
Spiritual question... If the cells of a body are alive, intelligent and conscious (as opposed to just 'material') should we ask them if they want to be artificially modified? Or do we just make an executive decision on their behalf? I think of the body as one unit and we wouldn't want individual parts going rogue, exerting dominion, and making demands. To put it simply, your bladder does make a demand at times. Is that the equivalent of a computer making a demand? Or it like a mechanical car flashing a petrol light demanding action? Or is it an alive aspect of the overall body? |
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Post by ouroboros on Jan 21, 2021 10:51:15 GMT -5
I decided to put it to my cells and ran an election. It was a close run thing and now one side has demanded a recount. Some of them have tooled up and are busy storming the hypothalamus!
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Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2021 10:51:29 GMT -5
To put it simply, your bladder does make a demand at times. Is that the equivalent of a computer making a demand? Or it like a mechanical car flashing a petrol light demanding action? Or is it an alive aspect of the overall body? The bladder doesn't make a demand, it just gets full, creating a pressure we can feel.. and gas gauges don't make demands either, they just let you know where you stand on the fuel front Then ignore the word 'demand' if it's not working for you. You respond to that bladder pressure because it gets uncomfortable, right? Just as the gas gauge signals an impending discomfort for you at breaking down. Just as the computer signals an impending discomfort for you at your computer catching a virus. The question remains, what are the differences between bladder, car, and computer? Do you relate to your body as if it is alive and conscious, or if it is 'matter' (albeit expensive and perhaps fragile 'matter')? The broader question might be, how well can technocracy and spirituality co-exist? |
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Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2021 10:57:35 GMT -5
I decided to put it to my cells and ran an election. It was a close run thing and now one side has demanded a recount. Some of them have tooled up and are busy storming the hypothalamus! The body will give clear answers, and it is experienced as 'instinct' (or perhaps for some, 'intuition') The rational thinking mind, which absorbs collective stress and anxieties, may well be at odds with our instinct...though actually I wouldn't advocate ignoring that aspect either In my experience, sometimes wisdom is about balancing body and rational mind. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2021 11:10:09 GMT -5
Then ignore the word 'demand' if it's not working for you. You respond to that bladder pressure because it gets uncomfortable, right? Just as the gas gauge signals an impending discomfort for you at breaking down. Just as the computer signals an impending discomfort for you at your computer catching a virus. The question remains, what are the differences between bladder, car, and computer? How do you relate to your body as if it is alive and conscious, or if it is 'matter' (albeit expensive and perhaps fragile 'matter')? The broader question might be, how well can technocracy and spirituality co-exist? well I don't think of the body as being "alive and conscious" (whatever that means). I would call it a collection of constantly changing organic matter. and I don't think about 'spirituality' as being just another subject to learn about.. but as a search for truth okay, what's the difference between 'organic' and 'inorganic' Do you believe you have an immune system or unconscious mind? If so, what are they? Does a car have them or a computer? Your last comment strikes me as a non-sequitur. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2021 11:13:05 GMT -5
The questions I am asking relate directly to the political battles too. These political battles are spiritual at their core, and I support neither Trump nor Biden.
What is sovereignty? Does a technocrat care for such a thing? Does 'the greater good' care about sovereignty?
Is 'sovereignty' just a silly libertarian word? Is there a 'spiritual sovereignty'? How does spiritual sovereignty relate to the 'real world'?
Are we, as human beings, different from AI bots? (Not a new question for us). Seems okay to fix an AI bot by changing the software, right? Same for humans?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2021 11:19:27 GMT -5
What put the nails in the coffin were the two hand recounts in Georgia showing no significant difference from the machine count and a point by point refutation by Republicans who ran the election of all the bogus claims and outright lies. The election did illustrate one thing rather well--that if a lie is repeated often enough, an increasing number of people will eventually believe it even if it's totally unsupported by any evidence. Yup. On that infamous Georgia phone call Trump said (among other things) that 5,000 dead people voted in Georgia. The evidence (they checked death records) is that 2 dead people voted. When the GA officials (Republican) pushed back, Trump veered into talking about his rally crowd size and said things like "give me a break". It was pathetic, but when I learned about the death threats these officials were getting, I saw it as worse than pathetic, and it made me angry. |
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Post by zazeniac on Jan 21, 2021 11:35:50 GMT -5
I deleted my post after I wrote it because the feelings shifted and wanted no part of the animus. Kind of got it out of my system once written. Next time I'll write it out on notepad first, before I post it. I walked away from politics because I saw what it did to my parents who were consumed with hatred much of their lives. Not judging them. They lost family and good friends. Many loved ones tortured and executed. But I got to see things first hand in Nicaragua in the 70s. It ain't pretty. People on both sides doing terrible things for what they believed were justified reasons. It can get very messy and crazy. Passion can be a dangerous thing. It's a slippery slope when you vilify others. That's why I love it when my son keeps reminding me Trump is God. Anyway, I have nothing but respect for Laughy and feel that if he sees some things as untoward then perhaps we should take a close second look to make sure it doesn't happen again. Perhaps a blue ribbon commission with folks from both parties to heal this rift. I can't believe that in a highly tech advanced country where folks can go online and verify their identify to claim social security and Medicare, we can't devise a pretty much fool proof, easy to use, voting system. Yes, I also believe highly abusive things can be done with really quite noble intentions. In many countries, governments may sincerely wish to keep their people 'safe'. Seems noble. But that doesn't mean that what they are doing isn't highly abusive in the name of that safety. No matter how hard I try, I can't equate mass murder and torture to a one, two or even three month lockdown or having to wear a mask. It doesn't work for me. |
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Post by ouroboros on Jan 21, 2021 11:48:10 GMT -5
I decided to put it to my cells and ran an election. It was a close run thing and now one side has demanded a recount. Some of them have tooled up and are busy storming the hypothalamus! The body will give clear answers, and it is experienced as 'instinct' (or perhaps for some, 'intuition') The rational thinking mind, which absorbs collective stress and anxieties, may well be at odds with our instinct...though actually I wouldn't advocate ignoring that aspect either In my experience, sometimes wisdom is about balancing body and rational mind. Sure.  |
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