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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2021 16:04:40 GMT -5
As a spiritual person, how do you feel about asking children to wear masks to protect your health? Do you give any respect to the law of attraction? To what extent do you feel others should be responsible for looking after your health? I guess It depends how you ask them to wear the masks. I think a somewhat sane adult could calmly explain to kids that there is a cold-like disease going around that is more dangerous than normal for older people, so we're going to wear masks for a while to help keep it from spreading, but they (the kids) don't have to worry. But, I had one experience last fall where I was hiking in the woods, without a mask, and a mother and two kids saw me. They were wearing masks, which I think is basically pointless when you are hiking in the woods. The kids, which looked in the 6-10 age range, saw me and ran back to Mommy, screaming. I thought to myself, that's not healthy... |
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Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2021 16:27:51 GMT -5
In my experience and understanding, dreams can be symbolical or not (a.k.a. true). You have to translate / interpret the symbolical ones, if you want to understand their messages. I believe it is the same with the "awake" reality created by our subconscious, directed by our inner-self.For example: the pandemic. It is a symbolic message. My interpretation is that it isn’t about its effect on humanity, or such, but about how it is handled by each individual. In my case, it is part of a pattern, and precedes a major turn in my life. This is a pattern I experienced a few times before. It is also tied to having the humility to accept that being right is not enough. (we, most of us, form our opinions based on what you're told, on a small sample of data we get first-handedly, using our intellect, affected by our emotions; trying to preach others our opinions is ridiculous, at the least)
(if this pandemic weren't a political issue too, then we woudln't be divided on it pretty much on the same political preferences; we use on it the same filters, most of us honestly believing we know the truth; we don't)Your thoughts here interest me, but I would need to hear more to understand them. I do understand the 'inner self/subconscious' bit, and agree, though I believe in 'collective creation' (you may not). So in my view, I am contributing to the creation of the virus, the response (at that inner self level). Because I'm aware of that, I'm also interested in participating in a different creation. Which feeds into the theme I've been talking about today. I'm sure most here would agree, that to some extent, 'the world' is an expression of our state of consciousness, our thoughts, beliefs, emotions etc. So is it spiritually mature and wise to be asking others to be taking responsibility for our own health and wellbeing? Is it spiritually mature and wise to be wanting government to FORCE others into being responsible for our own health and wellbeing? What are we expressing with our consciousness, thoughts and emotions by blaming others for 'spreading the virus'? What are we expressing by demanding that others be responsible for us? What are we expressing by wanting a government to 'nanny' us? |
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Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2021 16:38:00 GMT -5
As a spiritual person, how do you feel about asking children to wear masks to protect your health? Do you give any respect to the law of attraction? To what extent do you feel others should be responsible for looking after your health? I guess It depends how you ask them to wear the masks. I think a somewhat sane adult could calmly explain to kids that there is a cold-like disease going around that is more dangerous than normal for older people, so we're going to wear masks for a while to help keep it from spreading, but they (the kids) don't have to worry. But, I had one experience last fall where I was hiking in the woods, without a mask, and a mother and two kids saw me. They were wearing masks, which I think is basically pointless when you are hiking in the woods. The kids, which looked in the 6-10 age range, saw me and ran back to Mommy, screaming. I thought to myself, that's not healthy... Understand, yeah. The mask is one example of the restrictions I see kids experiencing, but if we go with that as an example. Certainly as a child, I was a worrier. Quite neurotic. I am absolutely sure that if I had been a kid when this was going on, and my granny died...or in fact, any person that I had come into contact with got sick or died, that I would be deeply worried that I had caused that by not wearing the mask, or not wearing it correctly, or by going too close to them. And I know that I would have carried that guilt into adulthood. Personally, I think some...perhaps many... kids are being traumatised, and there will have to be healing at some point for them. Do we really want them believing that they are causing old people to die? In addition, are the adults of the world even doing everything they can to be self-responsible for their own health? Diet, exercise, meditation, yoga, vitamins? It all relates to health and immunity (and that's aside from considering LOA principles). Here in the UK, we are a LONG way from seeing adults being self-responsible. I have no doubt America is the same. So kids are being asked to sacrifice their play, their friends, their freedom to run in the woods and play in the parks.....and also have to witness adults failing to even look after their own health. What are we teaching kids? What are we teaching them about life and how to live? What are we teaching about self-responsibility? What are we teaching them about 'how to manipulate others'? It might SEEM like we are teaching them to be kind by 'looking after others'. But actually what I think we are teaching them is how to manipulate and bully people. |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 21, 2021 16:38:39 GMT -5
In my experience and understanding, dreams can be symbolical or not (a.k.a. true). You have to translate / interpret the symbolical ones, if you want to understand their messages. I believe it is the same with the "awake" reality created by our subconscious, directed by our inner-self. For example: the pandemic. It is a symbolic message. My interpretation is that it isn’t about its effect on humanity, or such, but about how it is handled by each individual. In my case, it is part of a pattern, and precedes a major turn in my life. This is a pattern I experienced a few times before. It is also tied to having the humility to accept that being right is not enough. (we, most of us, form our opinions based on what you're told, on a small sample of data we get first-handedly, using our intellect, affected by our emotions; trying to preach others our opinions is ridiculous, at the least)
(if this pandemic weren't a political issue too, then we woudln't be divided on it pretty much on the same political preferences; we use on it the same filters, most of us honestly believing we know the truth; we don't)You are an undecided voter in the upcoming elections. The pandemic strikes. You're hopeful it will go away soon. It doesn't. You are bombarded with stories of tragedies, shortages; your life is turned upside-down. Eventually you succumb to fear; you're hungry for more information; you're tuning into the sources of information that feed your fear, you get angry against those who try to reason with you, or even just express doubts; you're in a loop: the more you hear, the more you fear, the more you hate, the more you hear the same sources, ... Besides the fear propaganda, those sources peddle overtly and covertly political propaganda which seeps into your system: then you exercise your democratic right to vote, unaware you've been manipulated. Pitiful. |
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Post by zazeniac on Jan 21, 2021 17:18:43 GMT -5
Andrew, I don't think British lockdowns or French lockdowns come even close to the repression in North Korea or Nazi Germany. This is a temporary inconvenience to relieve the pressure on the health care systems. Nobody supports a permanent lockdown. As to children's happiness, several recent studies show that youngsters don't seem to spread the disease. Maybe the Swedes were right and we should have kept primary schools open all along. If you read about the 1918 pandemic, you'll note many similarities to this one, except that one killed youth primarily. But one strategy that didn't work in 1918 and won't work today and has failed everywhere including Sweden is the notion that you can set up an enclave to protect the vulnerable. They tried that in 1918 by trying to isolate and shield military camps. It was a dismal failure. Certainly in the UK, our leaders have been talking about long term restrictions. I suspect we are not the only country. And I would agree that we're not close to the repression of North Korea (I used North Korea as a hypothetical example....can one retain spiritual sovereignty under an extreme level of totalitarianism?). I could argue the case that Sweden has succeeded, but quite honestly, I can argue that on twitter. I'm not here to argue whether lockdowns work or don't work. Nor masks. What I've been discussing here, today, is spirituality, that's not something I discuss on twitter. As a spiritual person, how do you feel about asking children to wear masks to protect your health? Do you give any respect to the law of attraction? To what extent do you feel others should be responsible for looking after your health? I can practice with or without lockdowns. I have no problem explaining to children, they must try and help the less fortunate. I'm one of the lucky ones. Merely a slight cough and a bit of asthma. Though had frequent heart palpitations that eventually went away. I still wear my mask everywhere except when outdoors. I live in somewhat of a rural setting so can stay away from folks riding my bike or walking. My wife lost her aunt and uncle to the disease. My life is pretty much the same as before except for the mask. I don't consider LOA. I'm quite fortunate, satisfied and thankful. |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 21, 2021 17:26:27 GMT -5
"Wag the Dog", "Canadian Bacon", ... just from the opposition side this time (same idea, same Hollywood, with some 21st century updates).
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Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2021 17:35:40 GMT -5
Certainly in the UK, our leaders have been talking about long term restrictions. I suspect we are not the only country. And I would agree that we're not close to the repression of North Korea (I used North Korea as a hypothetical example....can one retain spiritual sovereignty under an extreme level of totalitarianism?). I could argue the case that Sweden has succeeded, but quite honestly, I can argue that on twitter. I'm not here to argue whether lockdowns work or don't work. Nor masks. What I've been discussing here, today, is spirituality, that's not something I discuss on twitter. As a spiritual person, how do you feel about asking children to wear masks to protect your health? Do you give any respect to the law of attraction? To what extent do you feel others should be responsible for looking after your health? I can practice with or without lockdowns. I have no problem explaining to children, they must try and help the less fortunate. I'm one of the lucky ones. Merely a slight cough and a bit of asthma. Though had frequent heart palpitations that eventually went away. I still wear my mask everywhere except when outdoors. I live in somewhat of a rural setting so can stay away from folks riding my bike or walking. My wife lost her aunt and uncle to the disease. My life is pretty much the same as before except for the mask. I don't consider LOA. I'm quite fortunate, satisfied and thankful. But that's not quite what you are asking them to do. You are asking them to carry the burden of responsibility for yours and other people's health and wellbeing. How do you even know those other people want children to carry the burden of responsibility for their health? Is it perhaps the case that everyone is asking them to do it on behalf of 'everyone else'? Do you know anyone that wants children to lose all their freedoms for months on end for their own sake? Do you subscribe to the idea to any extent that the world is an expression or reflection of your state of consciousness, beliefs, feelings? If so, have you asked yourself how you are creating the pandemic? Or are you just blaming others when you don't think they are looking after other people well enough? Do you think Biden is going to look after you better than Trump? I know I sound contentious, and I'm sorry, and it's not that I'm looking to argue...as said, I can do that on twitter easily. It's that I consider these important areas of discussion, and ones that spiritual folks in general might be hiding from. My Dad could be said to have died last year as a result of covid too. He was denied a cancer screening he needed. But in truth, I don't see any value in putting blame onto anyone for that. I feel there was a level at which my Dad 'chose' to pass. It was perfect for him. Did your relatives die at the wrong time do you feel? Was it wholly unchosen by them? Are we totally passive in our birth and death? Are we all just victims of life's fortunes and misfortunes? |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 21, 2021 17:42:33 GMT -5
In my experience and understanding, dreams can be symbolical or not (a.k.a. true). You have to translate / interpret the symbolical ones, if you want to understand their messages. I believe it is the same with the "awake" reality created by our subconscious, directed by our inner-self.For example: the pandemic. It is a symbolic message. My interpretation is that it isn’t about its effect on humanity, or such, but about how it is handled by each individual. In my case, it is part of a pattern, and precedes a major turn in my life. This is a pattern I experienced a few times before. It is also tied to having the humility to accept that being right is not enough. (we, most of us, form our opinions based on what you're told, on a small sample of data we get first-handedly, using our intellect, affected by our emotions; trying to preach others our opinions is ridiculous, at the least)
(if this pandemic weren't a political issue too, then we woudln't be divided on it pretty much on the same political preferences; we use on it the same filters, most of us honestly believing we know the truth; we don't)Your thoughts here interest me, but I would need to hear more to understand them. I do understand the 'inner self/subconscious' bit, and agree, though I believe in 'collective creation' (you may not). So in my view, I am contributing to the creation of the virus, the response (at that inner self level). Because I'm aware of that, I'm also interested in participating in a different creation. Which feeds into the theme I've been talking about today. I'm sure most here would agree, that to some extent, 'the world' is an expression of our state of consciousness, our thoughts, beliefs, emotions etc. So is it spiritually mature and wise to be asking others to be taking responsibility for our own health and wellbeing? Is it spiritually mature and wise to be wanting government to FORCE others into being responsible for our own health and wellbeing? What are we expressing with our consciousness, thoughts and emotions by blaming others for 'spreading the virus'? What are we expressing by demanding that others be responsible for us? What are we expressing by wanting a government to 'nanny' us? , I believe there is no "collective creation", just influencing in the degree your dysfunctional multi-self lets it be. When you say "I am contributing to the creation of the virus", in my view, you have to differentiate between the awake-conscious-you (the one who interfaces with the physical universe framework) and the inner-you (the one who interfaces with the inner-wider-reality). The issue isn't the virus, but the pandemic as social application, and how you as individual perceive it; what it means to you individually; a symbolic message for the awake-conscious-you from your inner-self, a lesson you have to interpret and address; most likely it points to one of your individual limiting-beliefs that you need to identify, suspend, replace. Most likely we talk about a belief on the idea that you have to react, to learn to react to what comes your way, instead of consciously create what you want (talking in terms of awake-conscious-you). For some, replacing that limiting belief will mean a new limiting belief in another power that dictates their reality, and for most that would be a God. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2021 17:45:30 GMT -5
Are the creative processes involved with our birth, with our health/wellbeing, and with our death, mainly outside of us, or mainly within us?
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Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2021 17:53:24 GMT -5
Your thoughts here interest me, but I would need to hear more to understand them. I do understand the 'inner self/subconscious' bit, and agree, though I believe in 'collective creation' (you may not). So in my view, I am contributing to the creation of the virus, the response (at that inner self level). Because I'm aware of that, I'm also interested in participating in a different creation. Which feeds into the theme I've been talking about today. I'm sure most here would agree, that to some extent, 'the world' is an expression of our state of consciousness, our thoughts, beliefs, emotions etc. So is it spiritually mature and wise to be asking others to be taking responsibility for our own health and wellbeing? Is it spiritually mature and wise to be wanting government to FORCE others into being responsible for our own health and wellbeing? What are we expressing with our consciousness, thoughts and emotions by blaming others for 'spreading the virus'? What are we expressing by demanding that others be responsible for us? What are we expressing by wanting a government to 'nanny' us? , I believe there is no "collective creation", just influencing in the degree your dysfunctional multi-self lets it be. When you say "I am contributing to the creation of the virus", in my view, you have to differentiate between the awake-conscious-you (the one who interfaces with the physical universe framework) and the inner-you (the one who interfaces with the inner-wider-reality). The issue isn't the virus, but the pandemic as social application, and how you as individual perceive it; what it means to you individually; a symbolic message for the awake-conscious-you from your inner-self, a lesson you have to interpret and address; most likely it points to one of your individual limiting-beliefs that you need to identify, suspend, replace. Most likely we talk about a belief on the idea that you have to react, to learn to react to what comes your way, instead of consciously create what you want (talking in terms of awake-conscious-you). For some, replacing that limiting belief will mean a new limiting belief in another power that dictates their reality, and for most that would be a God. Yes, I understand your distinction there between the awake-conscious-you and the inner-you. I've been looking closely at the 'inner you.' I've noticed that there's a level at which I've wanted to explore socialism, a sense of what it would be like to be 'nannied' (or controlled) by an authoritarian force. So there's been an interesting exploration of sovereignty for me, and some good self-honesty has come out of it. And I suspect that, in general, the collective are trying to heal a parent wound. They really want their government to act like loving caring parents, and perhaps in some cases they do feel they have acted like that.... but equally in those countries e.g Australia and New Zealand, I suspect a deep fear of the power of government has been seeded. I suspect that even though the populations there are now 'free to live' to some extent, that there is also a collective trauma of sorts, an anxiety that their 'loving and caring parents' will lock them up again, whenever they want to. Spongy, if you are reading that, what are your thoughts? I understand it's different for you as there is no collective creation belief. So what purpose have your creations of the last year been serving you? |
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Post by zazeniac on Jan 21, 2021 18:01:38 GMT -5
I can practice with or without lockdowns. I have no problem explaining to children, they must try and help the less fortunate. I'm one of the lucky ones. Merely a slight cough and a bit of asthma. Though had frequent heart palpitations that eventually went away. I still wear my mask everywhere except when outdoors. I live in somewhat of a rural setting so can stay away from folks riding my bike or walking. My wife lost her aunt and uncle to the disease. My life is pretty much the same as before except for the mask. I don't consider LOA. I'm quite fortunate, satisfied and thankful. But that's not quite what you are asking them to do. You are asking them to carry the burden of responsibility for yours and other people's health and wellbeing. How do you even know those other people want children to carry the burden of responsibility for their health? Is it perhaps the case that everyone is asking them to do it on behalf of 'everyone else'? Do you know anyone that wants children to lose all their freedoms for months on end for their own sake? Do you subscribe to the idea to any extent that the world is an expression or reflection of your state of consciousness, beliefs, feelings? If so, have you asked yourself how you are creating the pandemic? Or are you just blaming others when you don't think they are looking after other people well enough? Do you think Biden is going to look after you better than Trump? I know I sound contentious, and I'm sorry, and it's not that I'm looking to argue...as said, I can do that on twitter easily. It's that I consider these important areas of discussion, and ones that spiritual folks in general might be hiding from. My Dad could be said to have died last year as a result of covid too. He was denied a cancer screening he needed. But in truth, I don't see any value in putting blame onto anyone for that. I feel there was a level at which my Dad 'chose' to pass. It was perfect for him. Did your relatives die at the wrong time do you feel? Was it wholly unchosen by them? Are we totally passive in our birth and death? Are we all just victims of life's fortunes and misfortunes? My father always told me we had to give up our seats on the bus for the elderly. I never looked at it as a burden. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2021 18:10:55 GMT -5
But that's not quite what you are asking them to do. You are asking them to carry the burden of responsibility for yours and other people's health and wellbeing. How do you even know those other people want children to carry the burden of responsibility for their health? Is it perhaps the case that everyone is asking them to do it on behalf of 'everyone else'? Do you know anyone that wants children to lose all their freedoms for months on end for their own sake? Do you subscribe to the idea to any extent that the world is an expression or reflection of your state of consciousness, beliefs, feelings? If so, have you asked yourself how you are creating the pandemic? Or are you just blaming others when you don't think they are looking after other people well enough? Do you think Biden is going to look after you better than Trump? I know I sound contentious, and I'm sorry, and it's not that I'm looking to argue...as said, I can do that on twitter easily. It's that I consider these important areas of discussion, and ones that spiritual folks in general might be hiding from. My Dad could be said to have died last year as a result of covid too. He was denied a cancer screening he needed. But in truth, I don't see any value in putting blame onto anyone for that. I feel there was a level at which my Dad 'chose' to pass. It was perfect for him. Did your relatives die at the wrong time do you feel? Was it wholly unchosen by them? Are we totally passive in our birth and death? Are we all just victims of life's fortunes and misfortunes? My father always told me we had to give up our seats on the bus for the elderly. I never looked at it as a burden. Not a life or death situation though is it. And giving up a seat on the bus didn't require you to give up all your freedoms, your friends, your capacity to play in the park and bike around the streets. It didn't block you from following your passions and interests. And perhaps even more pertinently, why should kids sacrifice and give up their freedoms, when the adults aren't even taking excellent care of themselves? People are still going to McDonalds in America right? Did America suddenly go from the land of the obese to the land of the health conscious? How many have actually taken the time to explore global studies and see what other people in other countries are doing to take care of themselves? How many know about curcumin, iodine, quercetin, mugwort, and chinese herbs? I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and assume that the basic vitamins are known about. How 'excellent' is it FOR our health to have a mindset that others are responsible and blame worthy for our own health issues? |
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Post by inavalan on Jan 21, 2021 18:12:00 GMT -5
Yes, I believe there is no "collective creation", just influencing in the degree your dysfunctional multi-self lets it be. When you say "I am contributing to the creation of the virus", in my view, you have to differentiate between the awake-conscious-you (the one who interfaces with the physical universe framework) and the inner-you (the one who interfaces with the inner-wider-reality). The issue isn't the virus, but the pandemic as social application, and how you as individual perceive it; what it means to you individually; a symbolic message for the awake-conscious-you from your inner-self, a lesson you have to interpret and address; most likely it points to one of your individual limiting-beliefs that you need to identify, suspend, replace. Most likely we talk about a belief on the idea that you have to react, to learn to react to what comes your way, instead of consciously create what you want (talking in terms of awake-conscious-you). For some, replacing that limiting belief will mean a new limiting belief in another power that dictates their reality, and for most that would be a God. Yes, I understand your distinction there between the awake-conscious-you and the inner-you. I've been looking closely at the 'inner you.' I've noticed that there's a level at which I've wanted to explore socialism, a sense of what it would be like to be 'nannied' (or controlled) by an authoritarian force. So there's been an interesting exploration of sovereignty for me, and some good self-honesty has come out of it. And I suspect that, in general, the collective are trying to heal a parent wound. They really want their government to act like loving caring parents, and perhaps in some cases they do feel they have acted like that.... but equally in those countries e.g Australia and New Zealand, I suspect a deep fear of the power of government has been seeded. I suspect that even though the populations there are now 'free to live' to some extent, that there is also a collective trauma of sorts, an anxiety that their 'loving and caring parents' will lock them up again, whenever they want to. Spongy, if you are reading that, what are your thoughts? I understand it's different for you as there is no collective creation belief. So what purpose have your creations of the last year been serving you? As I wrote earlier:
| ... For example: the pandemic. It is a symbolic message. My interpretation is that it isn’t about its effect on humanity, or such, but about how it is handled by each individual. In my case, it is part of a pattern, and precedes a major turn in my life. This is a pattern I experienced a few times before. It is also tied to having the humility to accept that being right is not enough. ...
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So, two-fold. By the way, I believe we're not talking about the same inner-you. The one I'm referring to isn't concerned with my awake-physical-self being taken care of, as it know that he directed the subconscious to create that physical reality. Dreams of socialism are rooted in fear, that's why, as history proved, it degenerates in creating more fear and suffering. Left vs. right, fear vs. confidence in self, hate vs. anger, entitlement vs. duty, in essence: react vs. create. |
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Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2021 18:14:02 GMT -5
Yes, I understand your distinction there between the awake-conscious-you and the inner-you. I've been looking closely at the 'inner you.' I've noticed that there's a level at which I've wanted to explore socialism, a sense of what it would be like to be 'nannied' (or controlled) by an authoritarian force. So there's been an interesting exploration of sovereignty for me, and some good self-honesty has come out of it. And I suspect that, in general, the collective are trying to heal a parent wound. They really want their government to act like loving caring parents, and perhaps in some cases they do feel they have acted like that.... but equally in those countries e.g Australia and New Zealand, I suspect a deep fear of the power of government has been seeded. I suspect that even though the populations there are now 'free to live' to some extent, that there is also a collective trauma of sorts, an anxiety that their 'loving and caring parents' will lock them up again, whenever they want to. Spongy, if you are reading that, what are your thoughts? I understand it's different for you as there is no collective creation belief. So what purpose have your creations of the last year been serving you? As I wrote earlier:
| ... For example: the pandemic. It is a symbolic message. My interpretation is that it isn’t about its effect on humanity, or such, but about how it is handled by each individual. In my case, it is part of a pattern, and precedes a major turn in my life. This is a pattern I experienced a few times before. It is also tied to having the humility to accept that being right is not enough. ...
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So, two-fold. Ah thanks. Being right is not enough for what? To be happy? Or....? |
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Post by andrew on Jan 21, 2021 18:23:19 GMT -5
Is it better for our health to believe that we each have authority over our health (and experience in general)? Or it is better for our health to believe that others...and 'the world' in general has authority over our health (and experience in general)?
Which is the more spiritual way?
The basic definition of 'progressive' is, 'You are responsible for my experience'...so if I am offended, it's entirely YOUR responsibility.
Politics and spirituality cannot be separated these days.
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